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Kothos

Why wireless won't cut it for broadband

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http://www.thelocal.se/7869/20070712/

 

Sigbritt Löthberg's home has been supplied with a blistering 40 Gigabits per second connection, many thousands of times faster than the average residential link and the first time ever that a home user has experienced such a high speed.

 

But Sigbritt, who had never had a computer until now, is no ordinary 75 year old. She is the mother of Swedish internet legend Peter Löthberg who, along with Karlstad Stadsnät, the local council's network arm, has arranged the connection.

 

"This is more than just a demonstration," said network boss Hafsteinn Jonsson.

 

"As a network owner we're trying to persuade internet operators to invest in faster connections. And Peter Löthberg wanted to show how you can build a low price, high capacity line over long distances," he told The Local.

 

Sigbritt will now be able to enjoy 1,500 high definition HDTV channels simultaneously. Or, if there is nothing worth watching there, she will be able to download a full high definition DVD in just two seconds.

 

The secret behind Sigbritt's ultra-fast connection is a new modulation technique which allows data to be transferred directly between two routers up to 2,000 kilometres apart, with no intermediary transponders.

 

According to Karlstad Stadsnät the distance is, in theory, unlimited - there is no data loss as long as the fibre is in place.

 

"I want to show that there are other methods than the old fashioned ways such as copper wires and radio, which lack the possibilities that fibre has," said Peter Löthberg, who now works at Cisco.

 

Cisco contributed to the project but the point, said Hafsteinn Jonsson, is that fibre technology makes such high speed connections technically and commercially viable.

 

"The most difficult part of the whole project was installing Windows on Sigbritt's PC," said Jonsson.

Point is, that fibre technology has theoretically unlimited bandwidth, whereas copper and wireless have theoretical and practical limitations that are easy to predict. NBN for the win?

 

(P.S. Anyone who mentions a political party in this thread I'm going to complain about (Oooo, scary! o_O). I'm only interested in discussing the technical merits of technology, or, at a stretch, the economic ones.)

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Whilst I would seriously flip my lid over the kind of speed mentioned in that article, I would really be happy if the 'net didn't drop to about 50 bps every night as a million people try to get online at once. I would also like to know why me in Adelaide contacting stuff in Sydney is routed via 6 locations in Malaysia - each incurring 100ms+ of lag.

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Anyone who thinks wireless WILL cut it for broadband doesn't deserve to have the internet anyway.

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Im meant to be getting ADSL2 next month as part of that telstra tophat scheme, being on only 1.5-8mbit for the last 6 years I can't really imagine having a fibre optic :/ let alone one that fast.

Edited by nesquick

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Though it sounded familiar.

 

Yeah not interested in wireless thanks but as we're on a property about 100m from the road I'm a bit sus that NBN wont want to run a cable. As long as I can stay on ADSL it's not a huge issue, I'll be interested in my options when the time comes.

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Yer, I remember reading about this back in 2007 :P

 

Also, whoever wrote the story doesn't understand the internet, not HDD limitations.

 

She can only download a HD DVD movie in 2 seconds if the upload source matches her download speed, and if the HDD/SSD can write at the couple of GB/s required. With a connection that speed you're going to be limited by HDD write speeds (a nice problem to have) so everything won't be as fast as the reporter is saying it is.

 

 

Yeah not interested in wireless thanks but as we're on a property about 100m from the road I'm a bit sus that NBN wont want to run a cable. As long as I can stay on ADSL it's not a huge issue, I'll be interested in my options when the time comes.

You're right, that extra 100M will seem like a lot to them when they're laying thousands of kilometers, they'll probably tell you to get stuffed.

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I too live in Adelaide and my connections to this site sometimes go via a russian IP address.

 

Anyhow i have always believed that Wireless and TV signals strength fall into the same situation. Weather can play an important role into whether you can receive that signal without Major Loss. Also you have general Noise created by your surroundings , I know in Adelaide's Rundle Mall they have some Hotspots but you have be really close to the site to get a good signal.

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Yeah not interested in wireless thanks but as we're on a property about 100m from the road I'm a bit sus that NBN wont want to run a cable. As long as I can stay on ADSL it's not a huge issue, I'll be interested in my options when the time comes.

You're right, that extra 100M will seem like a lot to them when they're laying thousands of kilometers, they'll probably tell you to get stuffed.

 

I'm not sure if that was agreement or sarcasm? :)

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Oh my God! /facepalm

 

I thought this had a slight ring of familiarity to it, but I figured that was just deja vu. I should learn to check the dates on things!

 

On the NBN thing, my area is "supposed" to get it in about 6 months but I think it will be more than a year... let's hope I'm right, because I just signed on to a 12 month contract for ADSL2+

 

I wonder why this technology hasn't been developed further, since it's been 5 years since a proof-of-concept was demonstrated?

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ALSO:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2010/04/south...-iphone-blamed/

 

Now.. I'm not doing this as an iPhone bash.. In fact, it's BECAUSE it was so popular that it became a problem.

 

A 3G network purring along nicely, suddenly a popular device comes along that is a must have for everyone. You suddenly have MILLIONS (Remember, this is Seoul. And they love both tech and fashion. iPhone would be must have), of devices are hammering on the door of the wireless. What is going to happen to your available bandwidth?

 

So..

 

We have 4g rolling out. We have a few 4G capable devices. What happens when an Australian 4G compatible iPhone gets released? What will happen to 4G speeds? What about in 2 yrs when you assume that the majority of people will go and get a 'new phone' because their contract has expired, and this new phone will almost definitely be 4G capable?

 

4G has a max effective life of 5 yrs in my book. And that is MAXIMUM! Provided we have adequate coverage, we will be better off with wireless with the shift from 3G to 4G in overall speeds, but there will become apparent more holes in data availability and everyone will be awaiting 5G. And the cycle will repeat.

 

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Yeah not interested in wireless thanks but as we're on a property about 100m from the road I'm a bit sus that NBN wont want to run a cable. As long as I can stay on ADSL it's not a huge issue, I'll be interested in my options when the time comes.

You're right, that extra 100M will seem like a lot to them when they're laying thousands of kilometers, they'll probably tell you to get stuffed.

 

I'm not sure if that was agreement or sarcasm? :)

 

I think it was sarcasm... For my part I know the NBN Co. has decided to wire up apartment buildings for free, because they are more interested in full penetration than in who should pay for what, but whether this extends to "difficult" houses I don't know.

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My place in on a Telstra Velocity fibre connection. Speeds are fantastic, makes the Optus Cable at my old place appear slow, and completely dwarfs any ADSL I've ever used.

 

Wireless can never cut it as the mane connection to homes, for the simple reason that bandwidth must be shared and redundancy for network growth is impossible.

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A 3G network purring along nicely, suddenly a popular device comes along that is a must have for everyone. You suddenly have MILLIONS (Remember, this is Seoul. And they love both tech and fashion. iPhone would be must have), of devices are hammering on the door of the wireless. What is going to happen to your available bandwidth?

We experienced a local version of that on campus. Our wireless network was purring along nicely and then in the last 3 years, *BAM*, every student suddenly got a smartphone and a laptop, and our network had to go from catering for 5,000 devices per day to 40,000 devices per day. It was a nightmare.

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I think you'll be OK Director. The NBN is already turning a profit (due to around 80% of people connected opting for 100Mbit), so they will likely go for full penetration now rather than ask you to pay a couple of hundred bucks for the trenches to be dug.

 

The initial prediction was 20% of users would opt for 100Mbit, so the budget was set around that. There will apparently be billions of extra dollars raised per annum by the NBN now, so they are getting more investors and larger budget approvals for properties like yours.

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3G is awful for multiple connections especially multiple encrypted VPN connections.

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On the NBN thing, my area is "supposed" to get it in about 6 months but I think it will be more than a year... let's hope I'm right, because I just signed on to a 12 month contract for ADSL2+

Generally about 12 months from start of construction to going live Kothos.

It can be a bit confusing but

http://nbnco.com.au/rollout/rollout-map.html can help with rollout schedules.

As far as wireless NBN goes I can't wait to try it and compare it to my 3.5Mbit ADSL. Remember the NBN wireless is a point to point technology so will not suffer congestion like the mobile network does. This means NBNCo can completely control the number of connections to each sector or cell. The only people who can connect to the NBN wireless are ones who take up a fixed wireless NBN connection. It is not a roaming service and mobiles, tablets, notebooks etc cannot connect directly to it, it must be through an NBNCo wireless gateway.

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I too live in Adelaide and my connections to this site sometimes go via a russian IP address.

 

Anyhow i have always believed that Wireless and TV signals strength fall into the same situation. Weather can play an important role into whether you can receive that signal without Major Loss. Also you have general Noise created by your surroundings , I know in Adelaide's Rundle Mall they have some Hotspots but you have be really close to the site to get a good signal.

3G speed is more dependent on network congestion at the PoI. You can have clear line of sight to a tower on a bright day, but if hundreds of other users do too, performance will still be shite.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

My place in on a Telstra Velocity fibre connection. Speeds are fantastic, makes the Optus Cable at my old place appear slow, and completely dwarfs any ADSL I've ever used.

 

 

Wireless can never cut it as the mane connection to homes, for the simple reason that bandwidth must be shared and redundancy for network growth is impossible.

Yep, I've got it too. Will post some screen shots tonight.

 

Up to 90mb/s and I have had speetest.net report 0 latency. Downloaded DOTA 2 from Steam in less than 10 minutes yesterday.

 

NBN FTW.

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Wireless can never cut it as the mane connection to homes, for the simple reason that bandwidth must be shared and redundancy for network growth is impossible.

Missed this. HFC is a shared medium too so it can and does suffer congestion issues, just that as the overall bandwidth is larger it is generally not a problem except where Optus or Telstra have oversubscribed the cable.

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Wireless can never cut it as the mane connection to homes, for the simple reason that bandwidth must be shared and redundancy for network growth is impossible.

Missed this. HFC is a shared medium too so it can and does suffer congestion issues, just that as the overall bandwidth is larger it is generally not a problem except where Optus or Telstra have oversubscribed the cable.

 

Also, the number of nodes servicing an area can be increased without needing more RF spectrum.

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All correct. However, I'm not a fan of wireless. We have 1 wireless service (non-3G/4G) in Canberra. It has enough trouble servicing 1 suburb. They serve multiple suburbs. (Look up the whingefest on whingepool for LongReach).

 

It's an ideal solution for rural communities if you get a decent transmitter in a suitable location. But trying to even deal with a small town will present problems.

 

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All correct. However, I'm not a fan of wireless. We have 1 wireless service (non-3G/4G) in Canberra. It has enough trouble servicing 1 suburb. They serve multiple suburbs. (Look up the whingefest on whingepool for LongReach).

 

It's an ideal solution for rural communities if you get a decent transmitter in a suitable location. But trying to even deal with a small town will present problems.

 

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So you are saying bandwith is shared ? For example ; we have a block of chocolate and i person wants to eat it so they get the full block, in comes another person and we then divide that block into 2 parts (shared) and then a 3rd,4th ,and 5th and so on. So each share is getting less and more utilize the block there fore reducing the amount of Bandwith available.

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