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michael.jenkin

I need to vent

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Yeah, they have axed the WHS line too, unfortunately, but we had an inkling they would, after the recent abortive version they released.

 

So, I'm gonna investigate some small, basic version of 2012 Storage Server for future home use.

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My point was that with Standard and so on you have greater flexibility with the way to manage things, eg PowerShell.

 

With SBS you are restricted to the wizards for most things.

 

You can never improve upon this. To add a user in SBS takes me 5-10 mins every time. With Standard I could have it take me almost zero time with some upfront effort.

 

In 5-10 years Windows servers will be GUI-less anyway. People who haven't learnt the CLI will not be employed before people who have.

You actually had powershell in SBS :)

 

I did get your point. Looking at it from the SMB business owner point of view, SBS still made more sence. I don't know why the SBS wizard to add a user took so long for you.

What was the last version of SBS you used ? To ad a user you only need first name, lastname, logon name and password. Very simple and quick

 

Yes, I agree ahout the GUI. I was surprised server core did not get more of a following.

 

Yeah, they have axed the WHS line too, unfortunately, but we had an inkling they would, after the recent abortive version they released.

 

So, I'm gonna investigate some small, basic version of 2012 Storage Server for future home use.

My understanding is the only servers (OS) that will exist are

 

Foundation

Small Business Essentials

Server Std

Server Datacentre

Multipoint

 

all others are now gone.

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Yeah, they have axed the WHS line too, unfortunately, but we had an inkling they would, after the recent abortive version they released.

 

So, I'm gonna investigate some small, basic version of 2012 Storage Server for future home use.

 

Windows 8 has drive extender. Check it out. WHS was shit anyway.

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You actually had powershell in SBS :)

That you can use in place of the wizards?

 

I did get your point. Looking at it from the SMB business owner point of view, SBS still made more sence. I don't know why the SBS wizard to add a user took so long for you.

What was the last version of SBS you used ? To ad a user you only need first name, lastname, logon name and password. Very simple and quick

SBS 2008. By the time I RDP in, open up the Console, proceed through the steps, 5 mins is easily gone, including steps to add to groups and add permissions and so on.

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If creating a new user in SBS takes you 5 - 10 minutes than you are reading every word on the screen every time.

Takes just as much, if not more, to do it on standard.

 

And as to your RDP in.. Well. Don't you have to do that to an Standard box too?

 

Also very easy to copy memberships in SBS...

 

I kinda call shenanigans. I actually find SBS faster.

 

Obviously, if dealing with 100 users actively using their PCs, then Standard is the way to go.

 

But I still am not 100% in agreeance with the changes. I appreciate fully what Leonid suggests. But he is also suggesting that the local tech supplier has the resources to spend on that. An exchange server that can supply to numerous sites and MANY hitting simultaneously from all over a city? Well we can technically do it yes. But money.. UP FRONT! The pithence here and there is good and long term is good. But we live in a society where Dell/IBM/HP/Misc supplier want money for their servers up front.

 

Too much is not 'right' for Australia. If I lived in America I would truly say "Where's the problem?" Australia is not right for this change (May change answer after NBN is a standard in Australia)

 

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Edited by AccessDenied

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If creating a new user in SBS takes you 5 - 10 minutes than you are reading every word on the screen every time.

Takes just as much, if not more, to do it on standard.

Maybe, if you click through the GUI on that as well.

 

And as to your RDP in.. Well. Don't you have to do that to an Standard box too?

No.

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OK.. Now your making little sense.

 

Are you hosting locally? I don't deal with too many boxes outside SBS. But RDP is a standard for our fun. We have many scripts to kick things along greatly in our office to speed things along.

 

If you are comparing an RDP session to a non-RDP, then you are not comparing apples to apples.

 

At the end of the day, to me it sounds like your scripts are focused on standard. You can script SBS. We have them. If we bill more than 5 minutes for a user install, it's typically for a good reason. And that's because of billable minimums. I've created SBS users without scripts, using RDP sessions in sub 2 minutes.

 

This is why I'm wondering WTF!?! I do it easily. 30 seconds or less to log in. About 30 - 45 seconds to create account and set permissions in membership. Use our little "Test mail script". Done.

 

account setup. Email setup. Tested. What more do you want?

 

If you take longer, than all I can suggest is that people have fubar'd their wizards and you've created problems for yourself.

 

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If you are comparing an RDP session to a non-RDP, then you are not comparing apples to apples.

I'm comparing the fact that with SBS you have to RDP in and then click through wizards to do even repetitive things and with Standard the option is there to automate mostly everything and remotely.

 

2 minutes, 5 minutes, whatever...the point is it scales linearly.

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You actually had powershell in SBS :)

That you can use in place of the wizards?

 

I did get your point. Looking at it from the SMB business owner point of view, SBS still made more sence. I don't know why the SBS wizard to add a user took so long for you.

What was the last version of SBS you used ? To ad a user you only need first name, lastname, logon name and password. Very simple and quick

SBS 2008. By the time I RDP in, open up the Console, proceed through the steps, 5 mins is easily gone, including steps to add to groups and add permissions and so on.

 

Without knowing exactly what you want to powershell, it is hard to answer this question except to say I have hundreds of the little scripts littering my USB drives. Powershell is my friend.

i am not sure why it takes so long for you to crank up the console and wizards. Maybe the server is low on resources ?

 

If creating a new user in SBS takes you 5 - 10 minutes than you are reading every word on the screen every time.

Takes just as much, if not more, to do it on standard.

 

And as to your RDP in.. Well. Don't you have to do that to an Standard box too?

 

Also very easy to copy memberships in SBS...

 

I kinda call shenanigans. I actually find SBS faster.

 

Obviously, if dealing with 100 users actively using their PCs, then Standard is the way to go.

 

But I still am not 100% in agreeance with the changes. I appreciate fully what Leonid suggests. But he is also suggesting that the local tech supplier has the resources to spend on that. An exchange server that can supply to numerous sites and MANY hitting simultaneously from all over a city? Well we can technically do it yes. But money.. UP FRONT! The pithence here and there is good and long term is good. But we live in a society where Dell/IBM/HP/Misc supplier want money for their servers up front.

 

Too much is not 'right' for Australia. If I lived in America I would truly say "Where's the problem?" Australia is not right for this change (May change answer after NBN is a standard in Australia)

 

AD

Ditto !

 

 

 

If you are comparing an RDP session to a non-RDP, then you are not comparing apples to apples.

I'm comparing the fact that with SBS you have to RDP in and then click through wizards to do even repetitive things and with Standard the option is there to automate mostly everything and remotely.

 

2 minutes, 5 minutes, whatever...the point is it scales linearly.

 

not sure what you mean by remotely.

 

 

SBS suports RDP, RWW, VPN and Telnet server. It supports remote WMI, Remote Registry and much more. I can't see where access to a STD server is any different.

 

The good news ....

 

There is "possibly" a smaller version of Exchange in the Windows for the SMB space.

 

Currently, you can install Small Bussiness Essentials one one server, install Exchange onto a second and Transmogrify the SBE past the 25 user limit into full Standard server, keeping all the SBE wizards including RWW !!!

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But I still am not 100% in agreeance with the changes. I appreciate fully what Leonid suggests. But he is also suggesting that the local tech supplier has the resources to spend on that. An exchange server that can supply to numerous sites and MANY hitting simultaneously from all over a city? Well we can technically do it yes. But money.. UP FRONT! The pithence here and there is good and long term is good. But we live in a society where Dell/IBM/HP/Misc supplier want money for their servers up front.

I did it, without a money supply. I went from zero to cloud in one year.

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It wouldn't be hard at all, it's easy to scale exchange as your demand increases and virtualization would only make it easier.

 

You don't to spend millions on infrastructure straight away.

 

You could even start by using a cloud host for only a few hundred a month.

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It wouldn't be hard at all, it's easy to scale exchange as your demand increases and virtualization would only make it easier.

 

You don't to spend millions on infrastructure straight away.

 

You could even start by using a cloud host for only a few hundred a month.

Problem is most of my clients are not legally allowed to use the cloud or are in bad broadband areas. Hence an on premisis solution is a must :)

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In 5-10 years Windows servers will be GUI-less anyway. People who haven't learnt the CLI will not be employed before people who have.

Jeezuz I bloody hope not. Fuck the CLI, give me a GUI anytime.

CLI might be fantastic for all you super duper server admins but for us basic types managing a server through a command line interface will be a bloody shittastic nightmare.

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In 5-10 years Windows servers will be GUI-less anyway. People who haven't learnt the CLI will not be employed before people who have.

Jeezuz I bloody hope not. Fuck the CLI, give me a GUI anytime.

CLI might be fantastic for all you super duper server admins but for us basic types managing a server through a command line interface will be a bloody shittastic nightmare.

 

You'll still have some GUI tools but they'll need to be run from a desktop. Admins who learn PowerShell will begin to do most things with it. They'll increasingly dominate the industry and just won't employ people who need a GUI to do everything, like in the Linux world and Cisco, Juniper, etc. Over time, there just won't be a market for GUI management tools, or at least not for everything.

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That's the way MS is going anyway. even with server 2012 the emphasis is on managing your servers using server manager on a client machine.

Even the Cloud based Office 365 uses powershell for exchange management :)

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You'll still have some GUI tools but they'll need to be run from a desktop. Admins who learn PowerShell will begin to do most things with it. They'll increasingly dominate the industry and just won't employ people who need a GUI to do everything, like in the Linux world and Cisco, Juniper, etc. Over time, there just won't be a market for GUI management tools, or at least not for everything.

That along with the dropping of SBS says one thing to me. Small business can get fucked, we are not interested in you any more.

 

Kinda leaves them out in the cold doesn't it.

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That along with the dropping of SBS says one thing to me. Small business can get fucked, we are not interested in you any more.

 

Kinda leaves them out in the cold doesn't it.

 

Not at all its the exact opposite, Easy management from a client. Do you locally log into your machine or do you RDP/ VNC to it?

 

I think what people are apprehensive about is the fact that their current skill sets may not be enough to keep them employed in the future.

Edited by mudg3

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The way forward for small businesses will be the cloud where possible, they want you using Office 365 or Microsoft Partnered Cloud Providers.

 

I agree with mudg3 in that it'll be harder to be a shitty windows admin going forward, if you don't have a real understanding of networking, infrastructure and virtualization your job options will start to diminish.

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What does it mean that SBS2011 is going EOL, by the way? No more new licences can be purchased? The current install base will receive no more support or updates? The current install base will cease to work?

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What does it mean that SBS2011 is going EOL, by the way? No more new licences can be purchased? The current install base will receive no more support or updates? The current install base will cease to work?

In this context it would mean you will not be able to buy new licences any longer, no more security updates and no more support direct from MS. Should still keep working though just like previous MS OS's do.

 

 

The way forward for small businesses will be the cloud where possible, they want you using Office 365 or Microsoft Partnered Cloud Providers.

So better make sure we get Labour's NBN then because all those options need fast (especially better upload speeds) reliable internet connections.

 

I agree with mudg3 in that it'll be harder to be a shitty windows admin going forward, if you don't have a real understanding of networking, infrastructure and virtualization your job options will start to diminish.

So all of us who do volunteer or small business support work on this sort of stuff, and all those small businesses who maintain their own servers will have to either do a lot of training or pay a shitload of money for a "proper" server admin to look after it?

Thanks a fucking lot.

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So all of us who do volunteer or small business support work on this sort of stuff, and all those small businesses who maintain their own servers will have to either do a lot of training or pay a shitload of money for a "proper" server admin to look after it?

Thanks a fucking lot.

 

Hey mate I do volunteer admin work for a few places on the side, and most places will happily give away license for non for profit organisations. Google apps does this too even though you need decent internet to do it. If this is not an option im not sure why people cant get away with a decent NAS and webmail or some kind of open source hosted mail service.

 

 

Just need to look at your options.

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