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Caelum

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That's no different to any other kind of breeding program.

 

 

"Twice as many field tests of genetic engineering experiments involving plants combined with genes from humans, chickens, cows, mice, and other animals were authorized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) between 2001 and mid-2003 than were authorized during the entire first 13 years of USDA record keeping, according to a new report released today by U.S. PIRG. The PIRG-authored report, "Weird Science: The Brave New World of Genetic Engineering", documents the previously inconceivable ways in which scientists are manipulating nature and highlights the differences between genetic engineering and traditional plant breeding. It also examines the unpredictability of genetic engineering, detailing examples of some unexpected results that have already occurred in field tests.

The report highlights field tests of unusual gene combinations such as: Corn and Hepatitis B and Simian Immunodeficiency Virus ProdiGene genetically engineered a corn with genes from a number of viruses, including hepatitis B virus and the simian immunodeficiency virus. USDA issued a permit in 2001 for ProdiGene to field test this pharmaceutical corn on 53.5 acres in Nebraska. Safflower and Carp Emlay and Associates created safflower that produces pharmaceutical proteins by genetically engineering the safflower with growth hormones from carp. USDA agreed in June 2003 for this crop to be grown on 11 acres in North Dakota and Nevada. Wheat and Chickens The University of Nebraska acquired three permits to grow field trials of wheat genetically engineered with chicken genes to produce fungal resistance. The field tests were authorized to occur between March 2002 and August 2003 in Nebraska. Rats and Soybeans The University of Kentucky used the genes of the Norwegian rat to alter the oil profile of soybeans. The test was authorized to begin in May 2003 on an acre in Kentucky and can continue until May 2004. The report disputes industry claims that they can insert foreign DNA into new species with great accuracy, and that the technology is merely an extension of traditional plant breeding. In May 2000, for example, Monsanto disclosed for the first time that its genetically engineered soybeans-their most widely used product, which has been on the market for four years-contained additional and unexpected gene fragments. Just one year later, Monsanto had to admit once again that additional unexpected DNA was discovered in the soybeans. http://www.rense.com/general44/cell.htm

"

 

Yep, just your normal breeding program, farmers have been doping it forever.

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:)

 

I grew up in farming country Nich, Somerset and Surrey to be exact, I do know about seed and what you are talking about is a recent situation. For thousands of years people held back seed for the next crop, seemed to work perfectly well, still does in a great many places.

 

Hybrids I've never had any problem whatsoever with, in fact I haven't said I have any particular problem with GM, perhaps that is because I don't. What I have a problem with is how it is sold and the not particularly transparent goals.

 

Seed is the biggest issue if you talk to rural people, they fear, and quite rightly so, that they could lose control and be forced to buy seed where that was not once the case.

 

I used to work for a pastoral company long time ago, we really did not sell seed at all often - new crops or bad drought recovery. Apparently that is not the case any more.

 

I'd dispute that there is no difference with GM foods because no one really knows, it's brave new world science and needs very careful monitoring, but it doesn't really seem to be getting it.

 

Cheers

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No different in the context I mentioned it.

 

No-one does tests of non-GM food to make sure there are no harmful 'natural' mutations in there that may harm someone. No-one does long-term expensive trials on a new hybrid strain of tomato or potato to make sure it doesn't have unintended side-effects.

 

There's no real difference in the actual expectations that people have for new foods, it's just that people are blinkered and hand-wave most away because 'nature'.

 

Some places and some crops can still use traditional seed saving methods, Chris, but those strains are commercially uncompetitive in a lot of foodstocks. Hence lab-bred hybrids that aren't gene spliced.

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:)

 

It's interesting, Egypt evolved the potato believe it or not, by selective seed with-holding, utterly natural process, I'm not as certain on cotton and sugar but memory says a similar situation.

 

You are utterly correct on food testing, I recall one of my teachers telling us that if the onion had appeared in the 60s it would very likely have been banned.

 

I guess it's the "lab-bred" bit that does produce anxiety in people, it doesn't in me but I do understand the reaction, for some people the sinister men in white lab coats is a vision that is not going to go away.

 

Cheers

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Apparently Irony is a foreign country.

 

If that ones pointed at me i probably should have used sarcasm tags.

 

Also im pretty sure my Irony visa is valid but ill check.

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a day and a half to reconfigure the wireless network on a VERY temperamental solar gateway so that I can move a cat drinking fountain.

 

:-\

 

Now that's a first world problem.

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Might have to look at using a RP2 as a media streamer connected to the TV, if I can actually get hold of one.

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How did that fire start in the Perth Shopping centre? Just heard another person has died making it 2 deaths so far.

 

Looks pretty scary

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Other than it seems a transformer exploded and those affected may have been contractors working on it at the time the information is pretty scant code.

 

It's been crazy hot in Perth and big electrical storms, another one on now, but dunno if that had any bearing on the explosion.

 

Very nasty, I know the place well, was only down there a couple of weeks ago.

 

Cheers

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So the cooling oil could have leaked out of the transformer and caused it to overheat and explode, then the oil go on fire in the structure.

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That's where I do my big grocery shops. Scary to think I could have walked right by the thing.

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So the cooling oil could have leaked out of the transformer and caused it to overheat and explode, then the oil go on fire in the structure.

Transformer oil isn't flammable for that exact reason.

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Just had a great couple of weeks with my brother visiting Japan. He does silversmithing and knife making, and came over here to do some workshops for techniques used in the making of Japanese swords. We visited one of the few remaining forges that smelt tamahagane, the metal used in swords, and did several knife making workshops, being shown tempering techniques, how to apply clay to produce the wavy line on swords, etc. My experience in knife making doesn't go beyond getting a sore arm from the hammering, but I still managed to get a result that you wouldn't call maimed.

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Just had a great couple of weeks with my brother visiting Japan. He does silversmithing and knife making, and came over here to do some workshops for techniques used in the making of Japanese swords. We visited one of the few remaining forges that smelt tamahagane, the metal used in swords, and did several knife making workshops, being shown tempering techniques, how to apply clay to produce the wavy line on swords, etc. My experience in knife making doesn't go beyond getting a sore arm from the hammering, but I still managed to get a result that you wouldn't call maimed.

That sounds really awesome.

 

Rob.

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OMM: /sad_face: Monty Oum died a few days ago, and I just found out.

 

You probably don't recognise that name... He's the guy at Rooster Teeth who came up with the (or most of the) stories for Red vs Blue, and RWBY. They have a page about it here: http://roosterteeth.com/members/journal/entry.php?id=3302319

 

Look, I'm not going to cry - I didn't know the man. But, he was a young man, married, with many loved-ones who will be all at sea atm, and that's just empathically challenging. And I will miss his story-telling.

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Bad decisions.

 

Driving home earlier today I was coming up to red traffic lights when I noticed a Highway Patrol car in the left lane put on lights and sirens, go slowly through the red and stop just around the corner.

 

Coming the other way on the footpath was a dude on a motorbike. Oops. He eyeballed the police for about two seconds, gunned it then took off past me, on the wrong side of the divided highway.

 

Now I obviously don't know the situation - does he have a licence, was the bike stolen, was he on something(apart from the bike!), etc. But my first reaction was all he has managed to do is turn a bad situation into a REALLY bad situation. Driving on the footpath is one thing, ignoring a direction from the police to pull over then travelling the wrong way endangering his own life and that of others is another.

 

You could see him weighing up his options when he saw the patrol car. He may have avoided them I guess, but not a great decision IMHO.

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Just had a great couple of weeks with my brother visiting Japan. He does silversmithing and knife making, and came over here to do some workshops for techniques used in the making of Japanese swords. We visited one of the few remaining forges that smelt tamahagane, the metal used in swords, and did several knife making workshops, being shown tempering techniques, how to apply clay to produce the wavy line on swords, etc. My experience in knife making doesn't go beyond getting a sore arm from the hammering, but I still managed to get a result that you wouldn't call maimed.

That sounds really awesome.

 

Rob.

 

 

fuck yeah.

 

been meaning to track down a doco i saw once that went really deep into the process. wish i could find it. i was reminded of this recently, watching a small segment in Brian Cox's Human Universe, when he was showing some of the process and talking about how critical arriving at the desired 5.xx% of carbon was. amazing. previous searches for the doco i remember have only uncovered much more general Discovery channel dross. those can be interesting too. and its not like Discovery doesnt make some really good stuff -- but goddamnit they produce a lot of filler-filled nonsense designed for the attention spans of dribbling idiots.

 

imo objects like the katana and the violin represent the pinnacle of pre-quantum age human achievement.

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Went out this morning to the shops ,love it when all the school kids have gone back to school.

 

Bus was empty on my return journey ,nice and cool too. Glad the heat has returned to Adelaide.

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I'm sitting here with the ceiling fan on 1 and not a bead of sweat to be found ! The rain has been on / off for a fair bit today

and it's just lurvely :) ... that is till we can't leave our little site of paradise due to flooding :P ... but we're not there yet !

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The solar panels are really kicking arse now. Pity our 'smart meters' aren't smart enough to provide near time data unlike the solar.

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Just had a great couple of weeks with my brother visiting Japan. He does silversmithing and knife making, and came over here to do some workshops for techniques used in the making of Japanese swords. We visited one of the few remaining forges that smelt tamahagane, the metal used in swords, and did several knife making workshops, being shown tempering techniques, how to apply clay to produce the wavy line on swords, etc. My experience in knife making doesn't go beyond getting a sore arm from the hammering, but I still managed to get a result that you wouldn't call maimed.

That sounds really awesome.

 

Rob.

 

 

fuck yeah.

 

been meaning to track down a doco i saw once that went really deep into the process. wish i could find it. i was reminded of this recently, watching a small segment in Brian Cox's Human Universe, when he was showing some of the process and talking about how critical arriving at the desired 5.xx% of carbon was. amazing. previous searches for the doco i remember have only uncovered much more general Discovery channel dross. those can be interesting too. and its not like Discovery doesnt make some really good stuff -- but goddamnit they produce a lot of filler-filled nonsense designed for the attention spans of dribbling idiots.

 

imo objects like the katana and the violin represent the pinnacle of pre-quantum age human achievement.

 

If you search for 'tamahagane' and tatara', several docos on smelting show up. Wouldn't have been one of those, would it?

 

The thing that surprised me most about the whole thing was that the smelting part on top is just the very tip of a complex subterranean structure which is about four or five metres deep, designed to make the underlying soil completely dry to prevent vapor explosions. Several museums had crosscut models of smelters with complex layers upon layers of charcoal, rocks, wood, stones and soil, and channels to assist drying.

 

The resulting chunk of iron is broken up into pieces and graded, by eye, depending on quality. The carbon content is 1-1.5%.

 

I'm astounded that they developed these skills by only hand and eye, trial and experimentation.

 

The tamahagane billets that we used were $150 each, and in all it took about nine hours to make a blade. I'm still polishing it to bring out the pattern; if it shows up well in a photo, might put one up.

Edited by komuso
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