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coming home just now I swear I nearly drove into the fricking moon ... Big huge mother of a yellow moon it be tonight !

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the plane involved was almost brand new i believe - i wonder what (or who) went wrong?

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A brand new 737MAX, thing pretty much flies itself and 737s are hugely reliable, Boeing have sold massive amounts of them I'll put my money on who fucked up.

Indonesian airlines are a mixed bunch, Garuda used to be awful but now I don't mind flying on them - they had to shape up or be a laughing stock of the industry.

Merpati, not sure if they are still around, were so bloody useless they had a flight get lost flying from Bali to Darwin when I was living there. Geez, you can damn near SEE  Darwin from Bali... RAAF scrambled Mirages to find the idiots.

This latest mob, Lion, have been banned from flying over or into Europe in the past, not sure if that still applies.

Not exactly my favourite place to fly, Indonesia, most of the pilots seem to have graduated driving taxis in Denpasar...

Cheers

 

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we survived merpati flying bali > lombok in 1991

 

sometimes luck is with you ?

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?

Never flown on them Scruffy, the reports were enough, someone suggested once they recruited their pilots up at the monkey forest ?

lion begins to sound like a maintenance or sloppy sign off issue, too early to really know though.

Cheers

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48 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Never flown on them Scruffy, the reports were enough, someone suggested once they recruited their pilots up at the monkey forest ?

What does that even mean?

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?

Presumably you have not been to Bali Nich. One of the attractions, in the hills near Ubud is a forest full of more than a little tame monkeys. The scurrilous suggestion being made was that Merpati were getting their pilots from there...

They truly were, or perhaps still are, a truly awful airline, the horror stories were many.

 

Cheers

 

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Australia has instructed it's diplomats and contractors not to use Lion Air ... but it wasn't told the Australian public to do the same!

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22 minutes ago, Jeruselem said:

Hmm,

Seems unlikely Jerusalem,  it's a mature design, five years of operation and the A-320 Neo has the same engine and not reporting problems.

More possibly the engine or flight control system, or both because they are computer controlled and on a shared bus but Boeing will investigate with an open mind, they always do.

My guess is that once the recorders are found the investigation will quickly turn up answers.

 

Cheers

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Squatting does work! Well if you're a real estate guy anyway. Anyone tried this?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-31/man-awarded-sydney-property-under-squatters-rights-laws/10450462

3 hours ago, chrisg said:

Hmm,

Seems unlikely Jerusalem,  it's a mature design, five years of operation and the A-320 Neo has the same engine and not reporting problems.

More possibly the engine or flight control system, or both because they are computer controlled and on a shared bus but Boeing will investigate with an open mind, they always do.

My guess is that once the recorders are found the investigation will quickly turn up answers.

 

Cheers

Recent information says the technical fault on the previous flight was not "fixed" but apparently the instruments went haywire. So it might be a flight control issue not resolved and the tech people couldn't be bothered or told to fix it later which is a rather common way to save money ...

Edited by Jeruselem

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Yeah,

On the 737 MAX Boeing have introduced a pretty complete glass cockpit whilst still maintaining the manual (power assisted with fall back to full muscle only) controls, so the aircraft systems such as pitot airspeed, altimeter etc  are presented to the pilots on MFDs.

It's interesting really, Boeing have introduced FBW on the 777, 787 and latest 747s but still retain a conventional yoke on all of their designs whereas Airbus went to side sticks. It leads to debate, the Airbus crash in the Atlantic was caused by the co-pilot pulling hard back on the side stick for whatever reason but the captain could not see what he was doing and presumably did not have his hand on his stick or notice it was pulled hard back - just busy was the accident account summary.  In a Boeing the captain would have had the yoke in his chest and well aware of the control input being incorrectly applied by his co, which stalled the aircraft.

I've not flown an Airbus, have flown a Boeing, but I THINK the sticks on Airbus move in concert, unlike some fighters which use force sensing without movement - no big deal in a single seat aircraft.

Cheers

 

 

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Is it possible one of the pilots pushed too much on the yoke because maybe the previous plane they were flying behaved differently? Just due to the stress so they revert to "old" habits?

They've located the fuselage, now to get the black box. Seems the technical issues from the day before which were supposed fixed cannot be ruled out as an issue. Some people got sacked at Lion Air (the tech staff who "fixed" the plane I'm guessing)

Edited by Jeruselem

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It's possible Jerusalem but somewhat unlikely, the 737Max from pilot reports, apart from the MFDs is very similar to earlier 737s to fly and it was a high time crew.

Depending upon the type ratings of the pilots they may have already been familiar with MFDs and presumably had undertaken a type rating conversion training course on the MAX.

Something seems tho be amiss in maintenance from the reports to date, the MAX  although very much a new aircraft still borrows heavily from the base 737 design.

We'll have to wait and see what the recorders reveal but pilot error, whilst possible, would not be the first place that I would be looking.

Cheers

 

 

 

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Could be a situation where the flight controls went AWOL due to bad maintenance and the pilots didn't know the situation at hand so they were doomed.

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56 minutes ago, chrisg said:

pilot error

Just on that: "Human failure" is a better term, imo - it accounts for intentional fuckups as well as accidental ones.   I really wish it wasn't necessary to allow for the possibility of the pilot aiming at the terrain (not in this case, though), but... ?

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Hmm,

Suicidal pilots are extremely rare, but it is a factor to consider in this crazy world but not when the fatal dive is preceded by an RTB call and an extreme case of what appears to be a terrible fight with porpoising.

the essentially uncontrollable aircraft condition could have been caused by several conditions, over-control or being caught behind on erratic behaviour by either controls or engine surges, or both. Miss-set trim is an outside possibility but very unlikely to this extreme and especially with a high-time crew.

IF the instruments were haywire a crew with that much experience would likely have ignored them and gone to the few backup instruments and simply looking out of the cockpit at  that altitude.

Engine surging is a possibility again placing suspicion on the control systems but again an experienced crew would not have been likely to try to play catchup on the throttles.

We are really not going to know until more information presents.

Cheers

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This one was definitely different from the Air Asia 8501 where they flew into a really nasty thunderstorm, this one seems to be more to do with people not doing their job on the ground.

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Darwin, storms comes out of nowhere and then pisses down rain like mad then it will disappear.

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Maybe not such a good idea wearing thongs when doing my promo leaflet drops.

Had a job to goto in Ainslie so went early and did some walking essentially next to bushland.  In the gutter was a small brown snake, looked to be dead and had a few flies and ants showing interest.
It might have been a kid's Halloween toy (seems the spray on cobwebs are everywhere) but I didn't have a stick handy to prod it and the detail looked just way too good for a cheap rubber thing, and there'd be no reason for insects to be congregating around it unless it was covered in sugary lolly residue or something.

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15 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Maybe not such a good idea wearing thongs when doing my promo leaflet drops.

Had a job to goto in Ainslie so went early and did some walking essentially next to bushland.  In the gutter was a small brown snake, looked to be dead and had a few flies and ants showing interest.
It might have been a kid's Halloween toy (seems the spray on cobwebs are everywhere) but I didn't have a stick handy to prod it and the detail looked just way too good for a cheap rubber thing, and there'd be no reason for insects to be congregating around it unless it was covered in sugary lolly residue or something.

It's possible someone stepped on it during trick or treating or a few did by accident.

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