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ATO posted something on my feed about government cutting taxes, yah for me.

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Woke up this morning to see the remnants of snow on my car.  Fuck this.

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39 minutes ago, Nich... said:

Woke up this morning to see the remnants of snow on my car.  Fuck this.

Move. Now !

 

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1 hour ago, eveln said:

Move. Now !

 

I did.  Was 4 when I left for Melbourne.  I think it was maybe 10 while I was standing around outside for a funeral, and it felt like 25 in the sun.

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Yeah,

 

That was pretty much always going to happen. They are still having to cool the core with water and the contaminated water has to go somewhere.

 

It really depends what else apart from Tritium is being flushed through, if short half-life transuranics then really not much of a problem but I suspect that is not really the case.

 

About the limit would probably be Strontium 89/90.

 

It does make me wonder though, and there probably are good reasons for it, they are not recycling the water repeatedly back through the damaged plant. They'd get higher concentrations of contaminated water of course, but in substantially smaller quantities that would be easier to manage.

 

Cheers

 

 

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Strontium 89 - half life 50.57 days

Strontium 90 - half life 28.8 YEARS

 

OK, sounds like it's safe for the next 30 years ahem

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🙂

 

Strontium 90 is not a hard emitter of radiation, it undergoes beta decay, electrons, which is easy to shield from. Especially in the relatively small amounts you get as waste product from a reactor it's not much to stress over in real terms. So 28.8 years would be acceptable, just, but definitely the upper limit and only with beta decaying elements.

 

By comparison Cobalt 60, although only having a short half life of something over five years, undergoes gamma decay, not something you want to be around.

 

That's why long ago there was a furor over potential cobalt bombs. They could potentially be air-burst over population centres, kill everyone without much destruction and a decade or so later the area would be yours for the taking.

 

Similar in concept to the Neutron bomb but that left nothing much of note behind at all after an initial high energy burst of neutrons.

 

Neither is exactly conducive to arms limitation even though the latter was even promoted on that basis once.

 

But to return to subject it really does depend upon what is in the radioactive water and at what concentrations.

 

A little known fact is that beta-decay elements are not only routinely present in the background make-up of the planet in general but a couple of feet of salt water is actually more than enough shielding. Not so with gamma emitters - you need  several feet of lead to be safe from those.

 

On an academic level only I would be interested to see if they ever release a list of what elements are in the soup coming out of the reactor and in what ratios and concentrations.

 

It's worth noting, or at least musing upon, the fact that Chernobyl is back in the news because they are actually running tours into the evacuation zone now.

 

Granted the entire reactor is now wrapped in a massive, and massively expensive Sarcophagus,  but  before it was contained it spewed a lot of radiation yet the area is actually thriving with even bears taking up residence.

 

In a bizarre way and not something we want to repeat, but we probably will, we are conducting a very long-term experiment on the true dangers of radiation over time.

 

Utterly unrelated but I read only last week that people in the U.S. have been bitching over the radiation exposure of TSA body scans, not realising they are exposed to more radiation on a typical flight through being partially out of the protection of the atmosphere.

 

Muse over... 🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

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Yes but fish and other marine life will absorb that stuff, and fish eat other fish and the cycle goes on. So big fish will concentrate the levels and then people eat it.

Edited by Jeruselem

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Absolutely, classic food chain concentration and yes, I would be avoiding fish from the region , if I didn't already because some evidence says that nucleotides are leaking into the ocean anyway.

 

However there does need to be a better understanding of radiation and its likely health consequences.

 

In summary Alpha is really only dangerous to humans if ingested, your skin can and does stop those (relatively) large molecules, well, they are not really, but a lot bigger than beta and in general your skin stops beta externally as well.

 

The danger with both Alpha and Beta is ingestion, because it implies several hours if not days in your system and that will kill you, maybe not soon, but the clock starts ticking.

 

However reasonable precautions can and will minimise the risk.

 

The big issue is Gamma, it doesn't understand the road rules, it does not give way to much of anything.

 

About the only good thing you can say about Gamma is that it does not stick around for long and the atmosphere is thick enough to absorb most of it. Not all, I do well recall my Physics lecturer remarking that just sitting still you were catching a tiny dose -it's true, so move and spread it around 🙂

 

However unstable but long half-life isotopes, which can be anything from a few hours up that decay by emitting Gamma are a persistent issue that can really only be dealt with by cocooning, as they have done at Chernobyl.

 

Nonetheless, as I've said on Atomic before, like it or not we live in a sea of radiation, how our bodies deal with it is a roll of the dice. Most of the time a healthy immune system which continuously detects and disposes of damaged or aging out cells deals with it. But if it is overwhelmed, as many of the original victims around both Chernobyl and Fukushima were, by bombardment, then there is a fight going on to re-establish a victorious immune system, or die.

 

I did not mean to trivialise the ongoing affects of Chernobyl. it is all very well for adventurous "eco-tourists" to visit, quite different to have to live there, or even in the near vicinity.

 

Ukrainian hospitals are even now seeing second generation victims who recover quite well when taken away from the area for a while but if they have to return, and many do, because they live there, they get sick again.

 

The human body is pretty good at repairing itself, but it gets beaten down by persistent bombardment.

 

Cheers

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39 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Absolutely, classic food chain concentration and yes, I would be avoiding fish from the region , if I didn't already because some evidence says that nucleotides are leaking into the ocean anyway.

...there's quite a lot of nucleotides in the ocean already.  And in Australia.  You'd have to avoid eating every single fish to avoid them.

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Indeed there is Nich, but to be fair at very high dilution, 70% or thereabouts of the planet after all, and a lot of them do being rather heavy, sink to the bottom and not travel much.

 

I doubt you can completely avoid them in any event and I don't have the resources here right now to build a Geiger counter - but I rarely eat fish anyway and if I do it is usually freshwater.

 

Cheers

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43 minutes ago, Nich... said:

I think freshwater fish are still liable to be full of nucleotides.

 

Personally, I like my fish to have nucleotides.

 

WOMM

 

Why the hell did I get it in my head to go back to uni?

 

Between work and uni, it's just a cycle of catch up a bit, fall behind a lot and neglect everything in-between.

 

Does anyone here have any experience with volunteering with St Johns ambulance? I've put my application in with them and am just waiting to hear back now.

  • Haha 1

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31 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Where from in Australia?

 

Cheers

I think the word you were looking for was something other than nucleotide.

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14 minutes ago, Xen said:

 

Does anyone here have any experience with volunteering with St Johns ambulance? I've put my application in with them and am just waiting to hear back now.

 

it's unsettling enough being paid to attend sick people without going out to collect them for free

 

but if you like the idea of bodily fluids and random drug fuelled violence, you might need more time in the university of life career centre

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2 minutes ago, scruffy1 said:

 

it's unsettling enough being paid to attend sick people without going out to collect them for free

 

but if you like the idea of bodily fluids and random drug fuelled violence, you might need more time in the university of life career centre

 

Seems with the glut of paramedic students, I'll need to do the free work in the hope I can get the paid work later.

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1 hour ago, Nich... said:

I think the word you were looking for was something other than nucleotide.

wash your mouth out ! you know he knows everything

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1 hour ago, Xen said:

 

Personally, I like my fish to have nucleotides.

 

WOMM

 

Why the hell did I get it in my head to go back to uni?

 

Between work and uni, it's just a cycle of catch up a bit, fall behind a lot and neglect everything in-between.

 

Does anyone here have any experience with volunteering with St Johns ambulance? I've put my application in with them and am just waiting to hear back now.

 

My bosses daughter recently got into NSW ambos. She did some time with St Johns before she got into uni. 

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1 minute ago, fliptopia said:

 

My bosses daughter recently got into NSW ambos. She did some time with St Johns before she got into uni. 

 

I didn't realise how contested positions were before I started and apparently, our lecturers have been told to downplay it as much as possible, so I'm currently trying to find ways to make myself more employable later on.

 

More clinical experience doesn't hurt either.

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9 minutes ago, Xen said:

 

I didn't realise how contested positions were before I started and apparently, our lecturers have been told to downplay it as much as possible, so I'm currently trying to find ways to make myself more employable later on.

 

More clinical experience doesn't hurt either.

 

Yeah, if that's what you want to do then try to be in everything you can. The more experience around medical fields the better. 

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54 minutes ago, eveln said:

wash your mouth out ! you know he knows everything

🙂

 

No - he means pollution - sure, what am I supposed to do about it ?

 

I would think I am very, very low on the pollution scale, very low indeed.

 

I've been aware of it longer than most of you have been alive... you might want to think on that...

 

Cheers

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