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RenascentMisanthropy

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

This might go against everything this forum stands for but anyone got any stats to back up claims of 'bred to fight' or 'fighting tendancies'? So far as I can tell, Pitbulls were originally bred as a house dog that was then commonly used (not bred) for fighting as a result of their high pain tolerance? Apart from wild claims, I can't seem to find much information saying that Pitbulls were bred for fighting?

 

I am more than happy to be proven wrong though...

Well, here's what the first two minutes of research on the web led me to....

 

Pit Bulls are descendants of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. "Bulldogs" were bred to hang on without releasing their grip, until the animal was exhausted from fighting and from loss of blood. When baiting large animals was banned in the 1800s, people then started to fight their dogs against each other instead.

 

And....

 

Although there are many breeds of dogs used for fighting worldwide, including the Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, the Tosa Inu and the Presa Canario, the dog of choice for fighting in America is the American Pit Bull Terrier.

 

Furthermore, studies seem to indicate that their owners are highly likely to be dickheads....

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This might go against everything this forum stands for but anyone got any stats to back up claims of 'bred to fight' or 'fighting tendancies'? So far as I can tell, Pitbulls were originally bred as a house dog that was then commonly used (not bred) for fighting as a result of their high pain tolerance? Apart from wild claims, I can't seem to find much information saying that Pitbulls were bred for fighting?

 

I am more than happy to be proven wrong though...

Well, here's what the first two minutes of research on the web led me to....

 

Pit Bulls are descendants of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. "Bulldogs" were bred to hang on without releasing their grip, until the animal was exhausted from fighting and from loss of blood. When baiting large animals was banned in the 1800s, people then started to fight their dogs against each other instead.

 

And....

 

Although there are many breeds of dogs used for fighting worldwide, including the Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, the Tosa Inu and the Presa Canario, the dog of choice for fighting in America is the American Pit Bull Terrier.

 

Furthermore, studies seem to indicate that their owners are highly likely to be dickheads....

 

Or the numerous "pitbull attacks" news stories https://www.google.com.au/search?q=pitbull+...920&bih=976

 

while I found only one story on a Jack Russell who is apparently even more savage... the rest were just stories of them being mauled to death in front of owners by pitbulls and huskies, if one ever attacks my dogs I would not hesitate to step in and try to kill it.

Edited by nesquick

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I dont agree with that at all, im a massive dog fan and am actually a owner of a pit bull (id post pics but im at work), he is a great dog and i love him. He has the easist life and has been treated only with love. But we CANNOT take him for walks or anything like that, if he sees another dog he will want to kill it, not play, but kill it.

 

If he see's people who limp or are disabled, he wants to attack them. He can smell fear and as soon as someone is slightly scared of him he fires up and see's it as a sign of weakness.

He is lucky to be alive after the next door neighbours dog got into our yard, Our pitbull (harry) barked like crazy as if to draw our attention and bring us outside. When we got there he had the neighbours dog pinned down and as if barked just to get our attention he bit the dog so hard on its back its spine broke and it died. Then he was so happy he picked up the small dog and dropped it at our feet as if we should be happy.

 

There is something wrong with pittbulls, they are programmed different. It is no doubt its in their blood.

 

Tell me something, can you take your dogs for a walk without a leash? because harry is the only dog we have had this problem with. I will never get another pitbull and would advise against getting one.

 

They are fighting dogs, this is known.

So you say.

 

Staffies were also bred as fighting dogs and are known for having the same temperament towards other dogs. I know of at least one staffie owner who had to put her dogs down after they got loose and attacked another dog and killed it. Those dogs were bought because they looked good and no work was put into them. They tore up the backyard and were only complacent when their owners were home. That is common for the breed.

 

Then there is my staffie and my sister's staffies who have all gone through the process of puppy preschool and early socialisation as well as the hard yards put into dog school and obedience training who shirk when even those shitty maltese terriers have a crack at them at the park. I have a dog who is the sweetest dog to our kids.

 

It could be the diligence or just our dogs. Some dogs you can't train though, I'll accept that.

 

BSL is a crock of shit. It's a fear based, knee jerk reaction which does NOTHING to solve the problem of angry, nasty dogs.

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:)

 

I'm a cat person but some dogs, small ones, I quite like. I've just been staying with my sister in SA, she has two gorgeous little dogs, one just a pound bitzer, the other some breed I've never seen before, looks like a miniature old English - needs clipping, both are gorgeous, great mates, very playful, never leave the yard.

 

That I could handle but the cat would have a conniption :)

 

My brother once had a pit bull long dead now, gentlest of creatures, my niece when very young crawled out onto the road, not really a problem n the small country town where he lives but the dog went out and pulled her back, by her nappy...

 

I fully accept some dogs are vicious, so are some cats, ferals especially, but it cannot be defined by breed.

 

Cheers

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Another point I think someone raised earlier and I couldn't find again was that BSL does not cater for cross bred, mixed breed mysteries.

 

My folks have a bitzer that is half Maremma. He got the big hair and a solid body on shorter legs, so he doesn't really like a Maremma. Yet he has the guardian instinct - stays out with the horses, is bonded to one person and very protective of them.

 

I agree totally that a lot of dog behavioural problems are caused by owners stupidity. More people should be educated or checked out before being allowed to own one. Especially in suburbia.

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The pitbull owners that I know have always had special rules about what not to do around the animals etc (often rules that you don't see other dog owners expressing).

Don't make eye contact

 

I seem to have a way with dogs. A couple of years ago had a confrontation with a dog that was aggressive towards ANY stranger but me. The owner was completely baffled as to why the dog (german shepard) was so placid with me around. I wouldn't have believed the dog could have been an aggressor, it was so peaceful and nuzzling straight away. Was a cool experience. My friends always say, all animals like Jay (me). So something unconscious going on there. I've always made eye contact straight away, gaze into their soul, so to speak.

Edited by RenascentMisanthropy

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Regardless, my policy is not to own an animal that can gain the upper hand in strength and kill me. (goes for any dog)

 

Crazy I know!

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This might go against everything this forum stands for but anyone got any stats to back up claims of 'bred to fight' or 'fighting tendancies'? So far as I can tell, Pitbulls were originally bred as a house dog that was then commonly used (not bred) for fighting as a result of their high pain tolerance? Apart from wild claims, I can't seem to find much information saying that Pitbulls were bred for fighting?

 

I am more than happy to be proven wrong though...

Well, here's what the first two minutes of research on the web led me to....

 

Pit Bulls are descendants of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. "Bulldogs" were bred to hang on without releasing their grip, until the animal was exhausted from fighting and from loss of blood. When baiting large animals was banned in the 1800s, people then started to fight their dogs against each other instead.

 

And....

 

Although there are many breeds of dogs used for fighting worldwide, including the Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, the Tosa Inu and the Presa Canario, the dog of choice for fighting in America is the American Pit Bull Terrier.

 

Furthermore, studies seem to indicate that their owners are highly likely to be dickheads....

 

Not sure if trolling or serious but your last quite claiming that people who own Pitbulls are dickheads doesn't seem to make any reference to Pitbulls, considers people with ANY convictions (including minor traffic infringements) to be a delinquent and has no relevance to a discussion about whether or not there is a reasonable basis for legislating against a specific breed of dog.

 

And whilst those two articles from the same source might indicate that Pitbulls were bred to be aggressive, they can also be interpreted that they were bred to have a high pain tolerance and high motivation levels and then TRAINED to be used for aggressive purposes. I could argue that German Shepherds are 'bred' to be highly aggressive as they too are trained to bite hard and hang on, most commonly by police.

 

At the end of the day, I could provide my opinion and you can state your opinion until we're blue in the face, but until you can provide some stats to back up your point of view, I see no reason to support any legislation that will discriminate and punish citizens and animals. Imagine if a politician was to try and ban violent video games, claiming that they too are dangerous to the community, when clearly the numbers don't agree with that point of view!

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And sure, any dog breed can/will bite, but most of them won't take a huge chunk out of you in the process.

 

But that aside, most dog breeds have certain dispositions that remain regardless of amount of training or how good the owner might raise it. And when you're talking about breeds that were deliberately created to be agressive, and they have a proven track record of trouble in urban environments, then it's more than enough reason for them to be either heavily controlled or completely outlawed.

I reckon this just about covers it.

 

It seems naive to refer to the strong instincts various breeds have and then deny that fighting dogs want to fight. My little dog is aggressive to other dogs(came that way from the shelter, we are actively working on it) but if she decided to go me she couldn't kill me and I could fight her off. If she was a fighting breed that may not be the case.

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It seems naive to refer to the strong instincts various breeds have and then deny that fighting dogs want to fight. My little dog is aggressive to other dogs(came that way from the shelter, we are actively working on it) but if she decided to go me she couldn't kill me and I could fight her off. If she was a fighting breed that may not be the case.

Don't waste your time, you will probably never remove that trait, my sisters dog (chihuahua cross whipet how they bred I have nfi lol) came from the rspca and it wants to fight all dogs, 5 years I have tried everything to stop this but I have just given up and just tell people when their dogs run up to play I picked him up for the safety of their dog not mine, our other dog a German sheppard who came from the same shelter 14 years ago is pretty cool around almost anything so its probably down to the first owners.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

This might go against everything this forum stands for but anyone got any stats to back up claims of 'bred to fight' or 'fighting tendancies'? So far as I can tell, Pitbulls were originally bred as a house dog that was then commonly used (not bred) for fighting as a result of their high pain tolerance? Apart from wild claims, I can't seem to find much information saying that Pitbulls were bred for fighting?

 

I am more than happy to be proven wrong though...

Well, here's what the first two minutes of research on the web led me to....

 

Pit Bulls are descendants of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. "Bulldogs" were bred to hang on without releasing their grip, until the animal was exhausted from fighting and from loss of blood. When baiting large animals was banned in the 1800s, people then started to fight their dogs against each other instead.

 

And....

 

Although there are many breeds of dogs used for fighting worldwide, including the Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, the Tosa Inu and the Presa Canario, the dog of choice for fighting in America is the American Pit Bull Terrier.

 

Furthermore, studies seem to indicate that their owners are highly likely to be dickheads....

 

Not sure if trolling or serious but your last quite claiming that people who own Pitbulls are dickheads doesn't seem to make any reference to Pitbulls, considers people with ANY convictions (including minor traffic infringements) to be a delinquent and has no relevance to a discussion about whether or not there is a reasonable basis for legislating against a specific breed of dog.

 

And whilst those two articles from the same source might indicate that Pitbulls were bred to be aggressive, they can also be interpreted that they were bred to have a high pain tolerance and high motivation levels and then TRAINED to be used for aggressive purposes. I could argue that German Shepherds are 'bred' to be highly aggressive as they too are trained to bite hard and hang on, most commonly by police.

 

At the end of the day, I could provide my opinion and you can state your opinion until we're blue in the face, but until you can provide some stats to back up your point of view, I see no reason to support any legislation that will discriminate and punish citizens and animals. Imagine if a politician was to try and ban violent video games, claiming that they too are dangerous to the community, when clearly the numbers don't agree with that point of view!

 

 

I suppose if you don't actually do the research you may be able to kid yourself that the statistics aren't out there. Again, this is just the first study that I came across with a minute or two of Googling. I did this by Googling "Dog bite rate" rather than "Pit bull bite" to ensure I didn't get research specifically targeted at Pit Bull breeds.

 

Breeds most likely to kill.

 

Even if you want to argue that Pit Bulls are no more aggressive than any other dog (a contention I disagree with), can you deny that they are inherently more dangerous IF they choose to bite than the vast majority of other breeds?

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Why not just make it a requirement for certain breeds to be leashed at all times, and backyards properly secure? Would that not eliminate all of the problems you guys are complaining about?

 

Like I tried to argue above, most dog bites occur from other breeds, its just that pit bulls/staffys cop the most heat from the media/hypersensitive types for it. I won't deny their bites probably hurt the most, and have the potential to kill a child or other animal, but not much more than a german shepard, rotty or my boxer if he wanted to have a go at you. Singling out one breed for a few bad eggs is no the solution, extremely violent dogs can be dealt with on a case by case basis, and it should be up to a responsible owner to determine if their dog is a threat.

 

Also Hlass & nesquick, your dogs have Napoleon Complex, its pretty common in small dogs :)

The term "Napoleon complex" has been used in scientific research on the phenomenon of smaller organisms acting aggressively towards larger organisms.

Edited by p0is0n

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Why not just make it a requirement for certain breeds to be leashed at all times, and backyards properly secure? Would that not eliminate all of the problems you guys are complaining about?

It would certainly help.

Like I tried to argue above, most dog bites occur from other breeds, its just that pit bulls/staffys cop the most heat from the media/hypersensitive types for it.

I've linked an article that states that Pit Bulls are responsible for more homicides than any other dog. I don't think that's being "hypersensitive". While it may be argued that other dogs "bite more" (and I'd be interested to see the statistics on that one), Pit Bulls will do more damage when they bite, because that's what they're bred to do.

 

I'm yet to hear of a fatal Chihuahua attack...

 

I won't deny their bites probably hurt the most

Lets be clear on what sort of "hurt" that is....

 

Posted Image

 

Posted Image

 

Posted Image

 

A quick Google image search will reveal many other delightful examples of Pit Bull handiwork.

 

extremely violent dogs can be dealt with on a case by case basis, and it should be up to a responsible owner to determine if their dog is a threat.

See pictures above. We have to wait for that before a dog can be dealt with?

 

Also Hlass & nesquick, your dogs have Napoleon Complex, its pretty common in small dogs :)

The term "Napoleon complex" has been used in scientific research on the phenomenon of smaller organisms acting aggressively towards larger organisms.

You're right. Many Terriers are very aggressive. This is because, like a Pit Bull, they were bred to be aggressive. Terriers were bred to chase game such as rabbits and foxes down holes and to flush them out. This is why many a terrier is rather fierce and fond of digging, because these behaviours were selectively bred into the breed. It has nothing to do with being a "smaller organism". This is why the "nurture vs nature" argument with Pit Bulls is a complete load of bull! Sure, you can make your Pit Bull less likely to be aggressive with a gentle upbringing but, ultimately, it is in their nature to be aggressive and it is usually found not too far below the surface.

 

Edit - spelinks

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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