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xnatex

Another turkey shoot hosted by Australians in the Middle east

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

No, i dont want to have some biased opinion forced on me...

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Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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You know I'm just throwing this out there not that I expect it to matter a damn

 

Bad things

There are some other actions that we feel are inherently against the Spirit of Atomic, and as such, engaging in such acts or behaviour will likely result in you being contacted by a Mod. This list is by no means an exhaustive account of things that we find distasteful, but in general all we ask is that you engage in the site and other users with the spirit of ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself’:

 

1.) Personal attacks. Criticise the idea, not the person. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack. "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is. We certainly encourage healthy and robust debate, but let’s not go overboard, folks.

12.) Racism, sexism, or any other behaviour the Mods and Gods deem to be unfairly pejorative. Hate speech of any kind has no place on Atomic.

Civility doesn't cost you anything and you may even benefit from it.

 

As to the OP. Yes we should pull out of Afghanistan, no we shouldn't be using the army as a border patrol unit.

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Why do the "detention centres" need army involvement?

cuz they are always complaining about how over crowded they are, 2000 people in a month, that's a lot of people to control.

 

"Record number of asylum seekers arrive

 

The sinking came as Australia's recorded its biggest month for asylum seeker arrivals with the 35th new boat as the number of people intercepted eclipses 2000 for the first time."

 

Thats more then many entire towns in australia, where do they stay? where do the magic houses appear from

 

I guess we could appropriate the "magic houses" that people who are immigrating (who out number asylum seekers 100 to 1) to Australia are living in.

 

The "we are running out of room!!!!11!" argument holds no water at all. If you are worried about population growth stopping the tiny number of Asylum seekers will do nothing. You need to start protesting against immigrants (mainly poms and kiwis) and babies. That is where the increase is coming from.

 

P.s. i know some of my AJ mates would disagree, but Australians are mercenaries in this war, had we not got paid SO much i dont think we would be as keen on it as we are

What do you mean by that? Is the pay more than other troops on OS deployment?

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no we shouldn't be using the army as a border patrol unit.

Don't we use the Navy for this?

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...not that I expect it to matter a damn

You know this place as well as most of us :)

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

You know I'm just throwing this out there not that I expect it to matter a damn

 

Bad things

There are some other actions that we feel are inherently against the Spirit of Atomic, and as such, engaging in such acts or behaviour will likely result in you being contacted by a Mod. This list is by no means an exhaustive account of things that we find distasteful, but in general all we ask is that you engage in the site and other users with the spirit of ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself’:

 

1.) Personal attacks. Criticise the idea, not the person. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack. "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is. We certainly encourage healthy and robust debate, but let’s not go overboard, folks.

12.) Racism, sexism, or any other behaviour the Mods and Gods deem to be unfairly pejorative. Hate speech of any kind has no place on Atomic.

The problem is that idiots are wrong so often.

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You know I'm just throwing this out there not that I expect it to matter a damn

 

Bad things

There are some other actions that we feel are inherently against the Spirit of Atomic, and as such, engaging in such acts or behaviour will likely result in you being contacted by a Mod. This list is by no means an exhaustive account of things that we find distasteful, but in general all we ask is that you engage in the site and other users with the spirit of ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself’:

 

1.) Personal attacks. Criticise the idea, not the person. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack. "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is. We certainly encourage healthy and robust debate, but let’s not go overboard, folks.

12.) Racism, sexism, or any other behaviour the Mods and Gods deem to be unfairly pejorative. Hate speech of any kind has no place on Atomic.

The problem is that idiots are wrong so often.

 

RTM'd

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

You know I'm just throwing this out there not that I expect it to matter a damn

 

Bad things

There are some other actions that we feel are inherently against the Spirit of Atomic, and as such, engaging in such acts or behaviour will likely result in you being contacted by a Mod. This list is by no means an exhaustive account of things that we find distasteful, but in general all we ask is that you engage in the site and other users with the spirit of ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself’:

 

1.) Personal attacks. Criticise the idea, not the person. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack. "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is. We certainly encourage healthy and robust debate, but let’s not go overboard, folks.

12.) Racism, sexism, or any other behaviour the Mods and Gods deem to be unfairly pejorative. Hate speech of any kind has no place on Atomic.

The problem is that idiots are wrong so often.

 

RTM'd

 

lol!

 

Whaffor?

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I know, it's frustrating isn't it xnatex. You've got this lovely land here, and these fuckers just think they can come on over and join in on your party. You didn't personally invite them, so who the fuck do they think they are!?

 

I'm surprised, given you've apparently served over in the Middle East, I'd assumed you'd have picked up some sort of insight into why supporting refugees is important.

 

The sinking came as Australia's recorded its biggest month for asylum seeker arrivals with the 35th new boat as the number of people intercepted eclipses 2000 for the first time."

 

Thats more then many entire towns in australia, where do they stay? where do the magic houses appear from

Geeze, anyone would think the Middle East and Africa have had a lot of political unrest and all out conflict of late. Guess they all just couldn't be bothered to book their plane tickets and get their Passports stamped eh?

 

Just out of interest xnatex, did you know that each year well over 50,000 people stay here illegally once their Visa has expired? Puts that number of 2,000 into perspective doesn't it?

 

Yeh but to be fair, there is a significant difference to someone who has been deemed fit to come into the country with a background check and overstays their welcome compared to someone who comes in illegally for whom we have not checked. Both are a problem, but the latter poses are greater issue

 

With regard to Afghanistan, isn't the main reason we are there is to maintain stability in the region in order to prevent oil prices increasing? In any case, a combination of a military presence and development of the region will ,with time, quell the extremists

Edited by SlurmsMackenzie

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Wha?

 

Afghanistan has about 30 million people and practically no military attack capability. The only threat they provide to their neighbours is cheap smack.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Wha?

 

Afghanistan has about 30 million people and practically no military attack capability. The only threat they provide to their neighbours is cheap smack.

Pretty much.

 

The problem is that the people of Afghanistan are highly tribal and have no history of strong central governance. The West is attempting, probably in vain, to establish a central government. My personal belief is that they're doing it not so much to prevent Afghanistan from slipping into extremism, but to prevent that tribalism and extremism from spilling into Pakistan. The ISI (Pakistan's intelligence agency) is a law unto itself and seriously vies for power in Pakistan, and has used Afghanistan in general, and the Taliban in particular, as proxies. Together with the military, the ISI is the true "power behind the throne" in Pakistan.

 

In effect, the West is fighting a war against the ISI and through it, the Pakistani military

 

Nobody wants the Talibanisation of a nuclear armed country.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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I know, it's frustrating isn't it xnatex. You've got this lovely land here, and these fuckers just think they can come on over and join in on your party. You didn't personally invite them, so who the fuck do they think they are!?

 

I'm surprised, given you've apparently served over in the Middle East, I'd assumed you'd have picked up some sort of insight into why supporting refugees is important.

 

The sinking came as Australia's recorded its biggest month for asylum seeker arrivals with the 35th new boat as the number of people intercepted eclipses 2000 for the first time."

 

Thats more then many entire towns in australia, where do they stay? where do the magic houses appear from

Geeze, anyone would think the Middle East and Africa have had a lot of political unrest and all out conflict of late. Guess they all just couldn't be bothered to book their plane tickets and get their Passports stamped eh?

 

Just out of interest xnatex, did you know that each year well over 50,000 people stay here illegally once their Visa has expired? Puts that number of 2,000 into perspective doesn't it?

 

Yeh but to be fair, there is a significant difference to someone who has been deemed fit to come into the country with a background check and overstays their welcome compared to someone who comes in illegally for whom we have not checked. Both are a problem, but the latter poses are greater issue

 

Background checks? All you need to do is tick X into the [ ] that asys "I have no prior criminal convictions" on your entry card. Applying for a VISA is a 10 minute task, easily done online with minimal fuss and approved as soon as you pay for it. I'd hardly trust any other immigrant more than an asylum seeker because they've gone through "security checks" before getting here.

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You know I'm just throwing this out there not that I expect it to matter a damn

 

Bad things

There are some other actions that we feel are inherently against the Spirit of Atomic, and as such, engaging in such acts or behaviour will likely result in you being contacted by a Mod. This list is by no means an exhaustive account of things that we find distasteful, but in general all we ask is that you engage in the site and other users with the spirit of ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself’:

 

1.) Personal attacks. Criticise the idea, not the person. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack. "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is. We certainly encourage healthy and robust debate, but let’s not go overboard, folks.

12.) Racism, sexism, or any other behaviour the Mods and Gods deem to be unfairly pejorative. Hate speech of any kind has no place on Atomic.

The problem is that idiots are wrong so often.

 

RTM'd

 

lol!

 

Whaffor?

 

I think he was jockin' about dude.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

You know I'm just throwing this out there not that I expect it to matter a damn

 

Bad things

There are some other actions that we feel are inherently against the Spirit of Atomic, and as such, engaging in such acts or behaviour will likely result in you being contacted by a Mod. This list is by no means an exhaustive account of things that we find distasteful, but in general all we ask is that you engage in the site and other users with the spirit of ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself’:

 

1.) Personal attacks. Criticise the idea, not the person. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack. "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is. We certainly encourage healthy and robust debate, but let’s not go overboard, folks.

12.) Racism, sexism, or any other behaviour the Mods and Gods deem to be unfairly pejorative. Hate speech of any kind has no place on Atomic.

The problem is that idiots are wrong so often.

 

RTM'd

 

lol!

 

Whaffor?

 

I think he was jockin' about dude.

 

Ah!

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Why do the "detention centres" need army involvement?

cuz they are always complaining about how over crowded they are, 2000 people in a month, that's a lot of people to control.

 

"Record number of asylum seekers arrive

 

The sinking came as Australia's recorded its biggest month for asylum seeker arrivals with the 35th new boat as the number of people intercepted eclipses 2000 for the first time."

 

Thats more then many entire towns in australia, where do they stay? where do the magic houses appear from

 

I guess we could appropriate the "magic houses" that people who are immigrating (who out number asylum seekers 100 to 1) to Australia are living in.

 

The "we are running out of room!!!!11!" argument holds no water at all. If you are worried about population growth stopping the tiny number of Asylum seekers will do nothing. You need to start protesting against immigrants (mainly poms and kiwis) and babies. That is where the increase is coming from.

 

 

Any Asylum seeker who has been given just 1 house, has 1 more house then me. Thats bullshit. There has been 2000 of these ppl come in just 1 month, thats not a tiny amount... If it was a tiny amount you would have no worries counting to 2000 then?

 

People that come over on a plane have a passport and we know who they are, where they come from and they get a criminal history check (remember they didnt let snoop dog in Australia? WTF) there immigration to the country is completely different, its legal for a starter..

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Why do the "detention centres" need army involvement?

cuz they are always complaining about how over crowded they are, 2000 people in a month, that's a lot of people to control.

 

"Record number of asylum seekers arrive

 

The sinking came as Australia's recorded its biggest month for asylum seeker arrivals with the 35th new boat as the number of people intercepted eclipses 2000 for the first time."

 

Thats more then many entire towns in australia, where do they stay? where do the magic houses appear from

 

I guess we could appropriate the "magic houses" that people who are immigrating (who out number asylum seekers 100 to 1) to Australia are living in.

 

The "we are running out of room!!!!11!" argument holds no water at all. If you are worried about population growth stopping the tiny number of Asylum seekers will do nothing. You need to start protesting against immigrants (mainly poms and kiwis) and babies. That is where the increase is coming from.

 

 

Any Asylum seeker who has been given just 1 house, has 1 more house then me. Thats bullshit. There has been 2000 of these ppl come in just 1 month, thats not a tiny amount... If it was a tiny amount you would have no worries counting to 2000 then?

 

People that come over on a plane have a passport and we know who they are, where they come from and they get a criminal history check (remember they didnt let snoop dog in Australia? WTF) there immigration to the country is completely different, its legal for a starter..

 

Why do you think they are "given houses"? And if you think that the number of Asylum seekers is getting even close to the number of immigrants to the country you are sorely mistaken.

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People that come over on a plane have a passport and we know who they are, where they come from and they get a criminal history check (remember they didnt let snoop dog in Australia? WTF) there immigration to the country is completely different, its legal for a starter..

They don't get a criminal history check. Snoop Dogg had previous felonies and charges from the last time he came to the country, so he was flagged in customs for a "character screening" or something like that (can't remember exactly it was ages ago now). He's had drugs convictions, unlicensed weapons and also violence charges against him and you're upset he was denied entry because he also happens to be a performer? Looks like your priorities are a little misplaced.

 

Also, people coming over on a visitors visa aren't "immigrating" they are here for a holiday. If they overstay their welcome, they are illegal. A refugee, or anyone claiming to be a refugee coming to Australian shores is not illegal. They have the right to an evaluation from Australian Customs, and the right to human decency while that takes place.

 

Also, what's wrong with building housing as a part of training? We're always pissing and moaning there aren't enough people in labour and construction. Why not tee up any willing refugees with a traineeship and get them to build their own housing as part of training? This provides Australian construction firms with a steady workflow through government contracts, gives construction companies cheap labour in the form of apprentices, and solves our shortage on apprenticeship uptake. Instead of locking them away, there is a million and one things they can, and likely want to do.

 

Just because someone was born into poverty doesn't mean they deserve to live there forever. If they are able to get over here, can prove they're willing to work for a buck, it's only a good thing in my eyes. My room mate is a med student, he doesn't work and it's his third degree. He's 28, and has never worked a day in his life. Because he's a med student and came over from Perth (now in Sydney), he gets a scholarship from his uni for ~$2K per month on top of his Centrelink payments. I find it hard to believe people are OK with this sort of thing, yet march on the streets to stop a refugee from coming into the country. We've got our priorities backwards.

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Of course many, many people come by plane claiming asylum. Most are found to have invalid cases unlike those that come by boat, the majority of whom are confirmed as legitimate and accepted.

 

But again back to the OP...

 

Why do the "detention centres" need army involvement?

Edited by Hlass

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I've said it once elsewhere on Atomic. Those that come by plane, don't necessarily land at an airport. (I got involved in a trial to try and detect their landings).

 

This thread is starting to merge with the other thread though. So.. I'll leave it there.

 

AD

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Why do the "detention centres" need army involvement?

cuz they are always complaining

 

 

What the fuck is a "cuz", and what country is it from? We speak English here.

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:)

 

I don't recall you mentioning that AD but very true. Little known but patrols out of Darwin and when occupied Tindall, keep an eye open for them but a small aircraft down low is very difficult to detect, especially at night.

 

From time to time they find rough strips up in the far north, but it's a vast area.

 

Returning to the OP I've no problem with properly vetted immigrants being in our armed forces, the tragedy last week in Afghanistan was different.

 

One of the most respected pieces of the UK armed forces are the Gurkha's, I'll never forget a comment made in the Falklands war - they sent Gurka troops there and the local commanders, knowing how ferocious they were, decided to keep them out of the big battles, instead they were sent to clean out West Falkland where they were aware there were very few if any Argentinians.

 

Some squaddie remarked " they took off like ferrets on heat."

 

When they came back they were assigned to base protection patrols. One Marine remembers being out catching a breather and suddenly having a knife at his throat, one of those evil looking kukri things I suppose, meanwhile a hand came up and braille read his badge I think. He heard "ugh, Marine."

 

He turned around, no one in sight.

 

Professional soldiers of a unique breed but from not too far away from Afghanistan. so no, properly vetted and trained I've no issue with immigrants from the area in our own forces, probably in their own regiments.

 

Cheers

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Gurkha's are special. My dad got woken up by a Gurkha on training. Said Ghurka felt the stubble said "Australian" and 'noone' was there. THAT is a way to wake up. (Was meant to be some Australian vs misc Asian exercise. Asians typically don't have the stubble of Australians after 2 - 3 days out bush). And yes, woken up with knife (Khukri) at throat..

 

Many Afghani don't want to be under Taliban. But the issue lies in the fact that, that those that DO want to be under taliban..... Well... They're Afghani too...

 

And vetting forces. Go. Goodluck.

 

AD

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:)

 

Yes, thought I spelled it wrong AD :)

 

I dunno, military induction is hard work, background checks can only go so far in an essentially lawless country, but during training, under careful supervision, I'd expect flaws to show up, and no weapons until confidence has been won.

 

It's purely a thought but I think it could be done.

 

Cheers

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