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meowkitty

Trolling and the internet.

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I've not commented on this yet, mostly because I don't have a twitter or a facebook or anything like that. I actively avoid most forms of social media. I don't watch TV or read the newspaper either, I do frequent the internet almost daily though, and have done since the mid 90s. I am expressing my opinion as something important to me may be under thread, freedom of the internet and freedom of speech.

 

It seems in recent years, as more and more people are getting online and it is becoming much more mainstream to actively use the internet for entertainment, as opposed to 10-15 years ago where only "nerds" actively used the internet regularly and you might even be ridiculed for doing so. This means more and more people will need to learn to get along. There is no way to distinguish age or seriousness of some people online either, kids younger and younger are getting online and mixing it up with slightly older kids and immature adults alike. COD generation anyone? Casual gamers appear out of nowhere and overnight millions are gaming online and all of a sudden its cool, it no longer makes you a nerd. I agree chat in most games is a joke these days, nobody respects anybody anymore.

 

I don't think there is any place for malicious verbal abuse in any setting, but I accept that it does happen. I also don't give a shit what people want to write about on twitter, because I don't want to read any of it. I believe your right to 'tweet' about anything that is happening to you on a daily basis is just as equal as somebody else' right to tell you to go and fuck yourself and die in a fire because you're a stupid whore etc. You want to write about your birthday, dinner plans, things that annoy you, problems you're having, something on your mind or medical problems or whatever, who cares. Other people want to write insulting things and they are free to do so. If you don't want to read insulting things, lock your profile down or just harden the fuck up and look past it or go elsewhere like the local cafe and start talking about your day to strangers, see what kind of comments you get. I've never heard of Charlotte Dawson before today when I read that article and she sounds like a complete retard to me, a 46 year old should know better.

 

I think people are way to naive online, not everyone is nice and not everyone cares what you have to say. If you don't like it on the internet then fuck off because we don't want you anyway. We don't need any internet police to tell people their words are too harsh. Trolling is getting out of control because trolls are getting more and more of a reaction, just ignore them and they will go away. The more of a fuss the media make, the more likely it is to continue to occur, the new trolls may be born. Imagine the laugh some of the guys must be having when they see someone they made fun of crying on TV or to the newspaper.

 

The internet is all about freedom, freedom to say what you want, freedom to write what you want etc. I hope that never changes. FWIW I don't troll anyone, I just speak my mind at the time. I don't go out of my way to hurt people, but I won't pull any punches either.

 

This thread reminds me of the signs they have at the fish and chip shops in Fremantle here, they say "If you feed the seagulls they will S.O.Y" (shit on you). I think you could say the same thing about trolls. If you feed them, they will keep coming back for more and more will appear, if you ignore them, they will disappear eventually. A reaction is what they are after.

 

Edit: added a few lines.

Yep.

Especially this bit ...

 

" I believe your right to 'tweet' about anything that is happening to you on a daily basis is just as equal as somebody else' right to tell you to go and fuck yourself and die in a fire because you're a stupid whore etc. You want to write about your birthday, dinner plans, things that annoy you, problems you're having, something on your mind or medical problems or whatever, who cares. Other people want to write insulting things and they are free to do so. If you don't want to read insulting things, lock your profile down or just harden the fuck up and look past it or go elsewhere like the local cafe and start talking about your day to strangers, see what kind of comments you get. "

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Yay that is so true.

 

But what happens when you have to watch what you type? These Trolls will continually attack you until you respond ,even though we have ignore and block functions they can be broken.

 

Freedom of the Internet is also about Free Speech and this is something which is being taken away when these Trolls decide they are going to sit online making peoples lives painful. When i started using the Internet we had no browsers just a text window and a search engine. If their was a picture it would take about 5-10mins to download otherwise it was just text.

 

Today's Internet standards are being lowered for Gaming ,not respect amongst its users.

I suppose you just need to be strong and ignore the idiots, and hope they go away. Say whatever you want, and be free, but attacking them back or acknowledging them only creates more drama so it is best to ignore them completely, pretend they never even wrote something. Know you're the bigger/better person for doing so and they will probably go and pick on someone else. If that someone else has the same attitude then eventually they might just give up...

 

Most trolls are probably miserable people in their own lives, who get their kicks from bringing others down, so just don't let them bring you down.

 

Yep.

Especially this bit ...

 

" I believe your right to 'tweet' about anything that is happening to you on a daily basis is just as equal as somebody else' right to tell you to go and fuck yourself and die in a fire because you're a stupid whore etc. You want to write about your birthday, dinner plans, things that annoy you, problems you're having, something on your mind or medical problems or whatever, who cares. Other people want to write insulting things and they are free to do so. If you don't want to read insulting things, lock your profile down or just harden the fuck up and look past it or go elsewhere like the local cafe and start talking about your day to strangers, see what kind of comments you get. "

Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

 

edit: typo

Edited by p0is0n

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Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

As novel an idea as it might seem to you :) yes I am serious in my agreement .

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Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

As novel an idea as it might seem to you :) yes I am serious in my agreement .

 

Now you're just trolling!

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Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

As novel an idea as it might seem to you :) yes I am serious in my agreement .

 

Now you're just trolling!

 

U R !

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Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

As novel an idea as it might seem to you :) yes I am serious in my agreement .

 

Now you're just trolling!

 

U R !

 

I'm dobbing.

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Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

As novel an idea as it might seem to you :) yes I am serious in my agreement .

 

Now you're just trolling!

 

U R !

 

I'm dobbing.

 

I'll try to cry.

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Not sure if you're serious as I'm not used to people agreeing with me :) Haha.

As novel an idea as it might seem to you :) yes I am serious in my agreement .

 

Now you're just trolling!

 

U R !

 

I'm dobbing.

 

I'll try to cry.

 

:'-(

 

I won't, it's just that I've got something in my eye. No, not pills.

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katalyst, i think youre playing fast and loose with my analogy.

 

maybe you glossed over the part where i made mention of innocents like that footballer? (btw, my bad — the comments were about his late mother not wife. plus it seems his shit does stink after all)

 

in any case, instead of "...like attending a concert..." i could have just as easily written "...like entering a mosh pit..." and you would have found no such loophole to peer through. the illogic of asking Twitter to do what is not only unwarranted but impractical and fraught with ceaseless complications, is just that.

 

of course an overwhelming number of slam dancers enjoy the pit with neither injury, nor expectation of injury. but most crucially: everyone goes in acknowledging a certain level of risk beyond that assumed to be covered by the venue's overarching duty of care, for which they actively accept a degree of responsibility.

 

anybody who cops an elbow either blames themselves (if it was unintentional) or the elbower (if it was intentional). what nobody ever dreams of doing is blaming the venue. this simple social contract is universally understood and observed. it works just fine. that is, until the day comes — in the near future no doubt — when an army of righteous nanny-state reared miscreants decide to fuck things up for everyone. (or more likely, a minority of these dribbling adult-children egged on by a pandering media). and you can be damned sure nothing good could ever, ever, come from regulations put in place to "fix" what isnt broken.

 

you may take issue with whether or not there should be risks online. but its not about 'should', its about 'is'! if you maintain a publicly accessible informational portal attached to your identity, then there are certain risks that come with the territory. as sure as the pope shits in the woods.

 

to use another, if notoriously hackneyed analogy, think of roads. pedestrians get injured on roads all the time. its horrible. but do you see anybody up in arms suing the RTA for negligence over their failure to mandate 1-metre thick Nerf bumpers fitted to all vehicles? of course not. that would be prohibitively impractical, not to mention too stupid for words.

 

we expect zebra crossings, and lollipop ladies, road rules, and signs with advisory speed limits. but we dont spend time in fantasy land imagining that these things will negate a fundamental level of risk. we cant afford that level of stupid. road safety: actual serious business! everyone who sets foot on a road accepts associated risks to their personal safety. only Darwin Award contenders think the RTA can, or should, save them from the willful recklessness of individual drivers. because there are recognisable common sense limits to the RTA's duty of care.

 

oh but what about hit and run drivers? (yes, this part of the analogy...again). these issues are matters for police, not the RTA! and if youre looking for proportionate analogues in social media technologies, its time to get real. its the internet! reckless endangerment via tweet? a criminal matter? oh ffs come on! its libel at the worst. all things being equal, when the shit hits the fan (i.e. someone calls someone a name on the internet) there is zero justification for involving social media companies or law enforcement. i say 'all things being equal' because, as it stands today, if you start tweeting actual death threats or your intention to detonate a dirty bomb, you can expect a swift visit from the authorities. nothing is broken.

 

we simply do not need special mechanisms to "stop teh trolls!". but the problem with social media technology is that the common sense limits of practicality are not so self-evident. the general populace does not realise the situation is less like roads, and much more like the aforementioned mosh pit: a crowded darkened room with an impossible mess of superficial bodily contact occurring between participants every millisecond, from gentle pressing between bodies to flying elbows at face-level. however — contrary to the assumption so many people seem to make without thinking: Twitter cant "see" everything.

 

just because computers log everything, that doesnt mean anything is clear at all without deep human analysis. when it comes to identifying the imminent danger of majorly hurt feelings, or deciding after the fact which tweets were the straws that broke a camel's back, and then apportioning appropriate shares of complicity and penalties amongst users — even once the totality of who tweeted what to whom, with reference to any relevant adjoining circumstance in all party's dealings in the real world, are known — you'd be dreaming if you thought any of this would be even close to possible without severely restrictive measures. ha!

 

if you think a beefed-up swearing filter would cut it - ha!

 

if Twitter etc and law enforcement ever get in bed together to adopt anything like the interventionist policies necessary to implement the above? then slam dancers can say hello to permanent bright lights pointed at the pit (for the benefit of the many HD cameras!), a panel of touch judges and video referees, a special complaints and appeals and licensing system, compulsory cotton wool moshing suits, and bar-coded bracelets. in other words, they can say goodbye to the mosh pit as they know it.

 

why? all because the rest of us lacked the fortitude to call bullshit, and call it loudly, when the pillocks took centre stage.

 

do you oppose the internet filter? if so, then i cant imagine why you would not see this for what it is — an adjunct of the very same problem. a direct threat to your notion of 'self government'. the danger of a gradual shift of the onus of personal responsibility into the lap of the cyber-state. if we relinquish this sacred prerogative — something upon which our most basic freedoms are currently predicated, so early in the piece — then we we'll soon be hurtling down a slippery slope to the very place Stephen Conroy has wet dreams about every night.

 

no thanks.

Thank you for your well thought and extensive reply.

 

I don't think I made my position entirely clear. I don't support any troll filter on social networking apps.

The last century in progressive western democracy's, is the only time in history where someone can truly speak freely and openly without fear of retribution. This is a good thing, worth fighting for.

 

But like I said, with freedom comes responsibility. Just like in real life, one would hope that if someone who is weak and vulnerable, is being emotionally torn apart on the internet, that the strong and capable come to their defence. And not just stand by and laugh.

 

I think an internet troll police is a ridiculous idea. And it would surely be the first step to a real thought police. That's not what I take issue with.

Its the idea of HTFU, as a method of dealing with Troll's. And lets be sure what were talking about here. A real Troll is someone who takes delight in the misfortune and misery of others, and go out of their way to make it happen.

 

Sure its good if someone can gain the self confidence and poise, that engenders a thick skin. But if the online culture becomes not only to tolerate, but to applaud the disgusting behaviour of true Trollery, then I don't think we even deserve an internet at all.

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-13/expe...-online/4260600

"Experts advice is 'lie online'

 

Updated Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:29am AEST

 

Security experts advise people to give false personal information about themselves on the internet in order to avoid becoming victims of cybercrime."

Yes that may true is some cases, but what happens where you where brought up in a family to always be honest. Some people get edgy when they lie and it makes things harder for them in the long. But on the other hand lying on the internet could also bring in other forms of criminal activity.

 

In chat rooms where you use cams and such it may be ,ok . But in other areas it may work against you.

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I think an internet troll police is a ridiculous idea. And it would surely be the first step to a real thought police. That's not what I take issue with.

Its the idea of HTFU, as a method of dealing with Troll's. And lets be sure what were talking about here. A real Troll is someone who takes delight in the misfortune and misery of others, and go out of their way to make it happen.

 

Sure its good if someone can gain the self confidence and poise, that engenders a thick skin. But if the online culture becomes not only to tolerate, but to applaud the disgusting behaviour of true Trollery, then I don't think we even deserve an internet at all.

for my part, HTFU isnt just a sensationalist way to open a post (:P), its a means of asking victims to get proactive, and for the people crying on their behalf not to misapply their concern in silly ways.

 

we need proactive education. we need wide-spread deeply-ingrained awareness of how quickly a round of ostensibly 'harmless' jibes can escalate into real tragedy. definitely.

 

but supposing we did nothing? i think *some* aspects of this problem would naturally work themselves out.

 

the thing about bullying, traditionally, is that those who are not the victim are often thinking "glad its not me". so they shut up, for fear of being targetted themselves.

 

but whilst the internet lowers the barriers to bullying by making remote incremental harassment so very easy, there is also a corresponding lowering of the social risks of extending moral support to the victimised through quick messages, either public or private.

 

we are witnessing the advent of something that in terms of social history is still very much a novelty. primary school kids with social networking accounts are but the first wave of huge change. boundaries are being tested. teething problems are inevitable. but i think it will all lead to a population that is naturally more mindful of the dangers of the medium whilst being generally far less vulnerable to insult-over-IP than the current crop of pioneers.

 

bullying is so infrequent in the adult world possibly because of "maturity" as a concept in itself, but no doubt this is informed by the past experiences of most adults; who can recall being the target of some degree of in person bullying in their youths. however, is it any wonder some of them lack a comparative level of emotional maturity when it comes to this strange new toy?

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we are witnessing the advent of something that in terms of social history is still very much a novelty. primary school kids with social networking accounts are but the first wave of huge change. boundaries are being tested. teething problems are inevitable. but i think it will all lead to a population that is naturally more mindful of the dangers of the medium whilst being generally far less vulnerable to insult-over-IP than the current crop of pioneers.

 

bullying is so infrequent in the adult world possibly because of "maturity" as a concept in itself, but no doubt this is informed by the past experiences of most adults; who can recall being the target of some degree of in person bullying in their youths. however, is it any wonder some of them lack a comparative level of emotional maturity when it comes to this strange new toy?

This.

And if we don't go all extreme in trying to immediately fix issues that ( imo ) will only really be fixed with time and experience we might survive the teething problems without massive nannying ... hopefully.

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we are witnessing the advent of something that in terms of social history is still very much a novelty. primary school kids with social networking accounts are but the first wave of huge change. boundaries are being tested. teething problems are inevitable. but i think it will all lead to a population that is naturally more mindful of the dangers of the medium whilst being generally far less vulnerable to insult-over-IP than the current crop of pioneers.

 

bullying is so infrequent in the adult world possibly because of "maturity" as a concept in itself, but no doubt this is informed by the past experiences of most adults; who can recall being the target of some degree of in person bullying in their youths. however, is it any wonder some of them lack a comparative level of emotional maturity when it comes to this strange new toy?

I sure hope your right.

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we are witnessing the advent of something that in terms of social history is still very much a novelty. primary school kids with social networking accounts are but the first wave of huge change. boundaries are being tested. teething problems are inevitable. but i think it will all lead to a population that is naturally more mindful of the dangers of the medium whilst being generally far less vulnerable to insult-over-IP than the current crop of pioneers.

 

bullying is so infrequent in the adult world possibly because of "maturity" as a concept in itself, but no doubt this is informed by the past experiences of most adults; who can recall being the target of some degree of in person bullying in their youths. however, is it any wonder some of them lack a comparative level of emotional maturity when it comes to this strange new toy?

I sure hope your right.

 

Addendum:

 

I was driving around running errands for the wife when I started thinking about this.

 

I was thinking about how the Internet is much like the wild west. And a movie came to mind.

 

I don't recall the name, but the one with Clint Eastwood, where a town hires him to deal with a group of bullies. And he stirs the bullies up, gets them to paint the town red and call it hell, and then takes off and leaves them to it.

 

I don't feel 100% comfortable with the analogy or even the method. But looking at what you have said through this lens, has made me consider it in a different light.

I think I see more where you are coming from, and are more inclined to agree.

 

Though like I said, I'm not sure how well the analogy holds up.

Edited by katalyst

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-13/expe...-online/4260600

"Experts advice is 'lie online'

 

Updated Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:29am AEST

 

Security experts advise people to give false personal information about themselves on the internet in order to avoid becoming victims of cybercrime."

experts advise honest people to jump on the band wagon.

I'd better change my name now.....

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Charlotte Dawson says charming things like:

"New Zealand is small, nasty and vindictive. It's a tiny, little village ... a tiny country at the end of the earth,"

 

So I really don't care if internet trolls make her cry, some people bring this shit on themselves.

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Great. Attorney-General Nicola Roxon is publicly linking cyber-bullying and protests to data retention and surveillance.

 

 

http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/roxon-c...data-retention/

 

Telegraph's Stop the Trolls campaign is a dismal failure

 

http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/.../17/3591761.htm

Edited by mudg3

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