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ilyria109

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I agree on that too.. And look at their method of data transmission.. Their demand on the MTU is fucking awful.. "We like both Europes and Americas method. SO we'll choose something exactly halfway between." WTF?!?!?!

 

However, they offered it. Liberal didn't (To begin with)

 

That is and always will be my argument.

 

If Liberal had their way to begin with, they'd be happy with 'telegraph wire'.

 

NBN is a necessity.. I'm still hoping that ALL the universities get on board and do some REAL distributed computing. (Right now, it's pretty avg. Think about an NBN between all supercomputers and doing distributed computing and load sharing with it.. *spooge*)

 

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NBN is nowhere near a necessity.

 

Also, unis are already connected with Fibre (AARNET and others). I know this because I worked for UNSW as a virtualisation/storage expert during the transition from AGSM DC to Randwick R1 datacentres using 16Gbps fibre down Wattle St. I also worked with Insearch (UTS) on their own DC relocation project.

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To be completely honest, I thought this thread would be more about "which side will support gay marriage". I'm surprised it's more about NBN.

 

I agree, NBN is a necessity, not for just whoop whoop, but the whole population of Australia.

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Cool.. And Charles Sturt has access to this?

 

What about a few rural universities?

 

NBN is a necessity.

 

If you haven't work it out and I'm surprised because you are VERY IT savvy.. data is king. Information is critical. Information is worth more than many other resources. If done right, it can be worth more than the uranium in our ground.

 

We can't utilize because our infrastructure SUCKS!

 

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ilyria: Dude. This is a tech forum... :P

 

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I know. Just trying to put the thread a little bit more on topic, although was a bit torn, hence stating that I agree on NBN. Carry on :P

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I just have more of an issue of:

NBN is a waste of money because we don't know what to do with it NOW!

 

We reached the moon because we committed to it. It was a FAR OUT commitment. And we (Earth) did it.

 

What about 'accidental' discoveries'? Mammograms exist because of the Hubble Telescope.

 

We have a chance to do something HUGE!

 

What could we sell to the world?

 

"You want a Square Kilometer Array Telescope? Here's some fucking fibre for you! GO!"

 

Science > tax cuts.

 

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Cool.. And Charles Sturt has access to this?

Sure. It got fibre connected to AARNET with the 2006-commissioned Mitchell Link. I was on the periphery of that project working in a minor capacity with a senior engineer in implementing the redundancy for that link.

 

What about a few rural universities?

As far as I know, yeah.

 

NBN is a necessity.

 

If you haven't work it out and I'm surprised because you are VERY IT savvy.. data is king. Information is critical. Information is worth more than many other resources. If done right, it can be worth more than the uranium in our ground.

This is where we differ. I do not think data is king. I think content is king.

 

People don't tend to move giant amounts of data around (well we do, for our backups of Uncle Torrance's movie collection) - they want content to be accessible.

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OK..

 

Now let's look at this..

 

The observatory here in Canberra (Mt Stromlo) did a scan of the night sky.

 

The data from it was massive. To the point that it tied up data from the observatory ALL day, EVERY day. Why? So we could share it!

 

There was nothing else the observatory could do during these periods. Even EMAIL lagged. (Source: Sis in law who worked up there during all this).

 

How can you think that science is at an optimum when this shit is going on? Really!

 

I believe data is king.

 

*I* believe that we can get through the economic crisis with INFORMATION! When the resources start dying off, let's give the rest of the world DATA for our resource.

 

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Also your point about the MTU is well put.

 

What's it at - 1492? Something stupidly low?

 

The NBN is supposed to be a low-latency link, perfect for distributed storage and replication. All my switch ports are always auto-set to 9216 so that I can have jumbo frames for iSCSI, etc...

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I will never, ever vote for Tony Abbot. Period.

 

Now if Turnbill took over it would be a different kettle of fish.

 

The way I see it,

Liberals get in power and cut spending, get on surplus but infrastructure starts to fall over,

labor starts getting more support untill they win however the liberals sabotage things on their way out,

labor wastes huge amounts of money fixing things that the liberals didn't want to spend money maintaining

labor looses the vote a few years later because they were spending too much money.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

If I ignore the leaders of the two parties, I just need to try to figure out the state of infrastructure and how much damage it will receive if we do get a liberal government.

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Look at difference between EU and US.

 

EU does "Lotsa little packets really quickly".

US does "BIG packets and error correction = good"

 

 

1492 is our MTU at present.

 

But yeah. It's a shamozzle between the 2.

 

Big issue = If we go "Custom amount" then we are paying EXTRA for custom firmware. Simple as that.

 

Go EU. Go US. Don't care.. Get "Off the shelf" and save MILLIONS! (I'd happily say 100's of millions saved)

 

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Sorry. As a data tech.. That sounds like "Salesman speak" to me.

 

Dead serious. It truly does. The is no DOUBT that they are behind schedule, but I'm so used to data rollouts. You do the backbone then rollout from there. It's slow at first, but it's an exponential increase.

 

I have a 'feeling' (And feeling alone. No evidence), that some dick, somewhere (On Labors side) saw "We'll have x premises connected in 2 years" and did nothing more than "x / 24" to get it in months.

 

That's NOT how data roll outs work. I've done multi-site data and the like. Not nationwide. But I have done it over suburbs.. And yeah.. Something is REALLY fishy with the figures.

 

Looking at the figures, I'm PERSONALLY thinking "Right on schedule". Wait 18 months and it will be close to schedule again.

 

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That's pretty much how the entire NBN was planned and costed. Some dick on Labor's side (Conroy) tried to get his Prime Minister's attention (Rudd), couldn't and ended up mapping out the NBN including it's cost on the back of an envelope on two east-coast two hour flights, with no advice, business plan, or research materials.

 

Their calculations are way off. Way way off. So are their costs.

 

I hate Australia.

 

No one gets anything right, the liberals want the NBN to stay? Cool.

 

Oh wait, They want to privatise the NBN, look what happened when they privatised telecom, fuck that.

Yeah look at what happened when they privatised telecom... comms costs down... NextG network... now LTE... ADSL for almost everyone... ADSL2+ for most.

 

Down? Telstra is the most expensive telecom company in Australia! They have a monopoly and overcharge us for their services. Not to mention how far behind the infrastructure is compared to the rest of the developed world.

 

The internet in Australia is a fucking joke, Its possible that I'm wrong (Hey I really have little idea what I'm talking about) and that its not the privatisation of telecom that caused it, but it seems to be the case to me.

 

Fuck Telstra.

 

Fuck Australia.

 

I'm moving to Norway.

Edited by NukeJockey

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Sorta Nuke.

 

Telecom Australia had a reliable income stream for the govt. This is why they COULD sell it.

 

Liberal sold it based on "The income was not covering the rest of the debts". I don't agree with the method. I'd have preferred to service the debts in a different way.

 

And if we kept with the Liberal method it would work. But the trade off is that it's about 200x more difficult to reinvest in the future.

 

The govt did learn. Look at the seperation of the electricity companies. Retail vs infrastructure. Evonomists fall down on boths sides of this, so it's obviously the right path. When both sides of economics disagree, you've chosen the right path in my books.

 

And Telstra HAS got the highest rate of coverage with the highest speeds at the moment. I would hate to see them if Optus and Vodafone WEREN'T there. It'd suck. But competition.. Needs competition.

 

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Rather than reading to Leonid's usual bullshit about how the god Abbott and his disciples will save us all from the dreaded Labor and their hopeless NBN idea have a read through these threads AD

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1965040

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1973284

The basics are the Coalition has no idea, have not costed anything and have not released anything definite about what they plan to actually do (seems to change on a daily basis).

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Or go the full rebellion in one hit. Repeal the 2-party preferred voting scam, ban all parties, ban political advertising, mandate equal press time for all candidates. Only then might we come close to having an honest election.

What do you mean by '2-party preferred voting scam'?

 

Have all MPs and Senators independent? I kind of like that idea for the legislative but I don't know how it would work for the executive. Directly elected President perhaps?

 

I agree on banning government advertising.

 

Mandating equal press time for all candidates seems a bit authoritarian and anti-freedom. I want the press to be free.

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It'd be nice to have the parties update their 'description' yearly.

 

Have you read EITHER parties description from the website lately?

 

I'd vote for either of them. Just a shame that neither of them reflect the actual party.

 

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The Liberals definitely won't roll back the NBN, but they will give us "a comparable outcome".

According to the liberals, wireless was "a comparable outcome" last election, so presumably they will give us a wireless "comparable outcome" if they get into power.

 

"The Coalition's aim is not to cancel contracts but rather, renegotiate existing contracts where possible to accommodate different architectures and lower the capital cost of the network and hence, the end cost to consumers,"

 

Hmmmmm

 

In Vic we have a Liberal government, and I've already had a gutful. One of the primary election promises (not a "non core" election promise) was a pay rise for teachers. More than that actually, they said Victorian teachers were the worst paid in Australia, and would be the best paid under a Liberal government. Well guess what, so far they haven't given them anything. From what I've heard, their offers have been frankly insulting, and the teachers are striking.

 

Add to that Tony Abbott, and I seriously don't see how they are a viable party for the next election. This is the same Tony Abbott, that lead the entire RU486 schmozzle, and then when he lost control of that, publicly backed off but told the private sector not to even bother trying to get it registered for use. If he's leading, them they aren't viable, as far as I'm concerned, he's not a fit leader and a party that wants to delay (yet again) any action on climate is pathetic. Look at any review of their "direct action" plan on climate, and you'll see that it's "no action" on climate.

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The Liberals definitely won't roll back the NBN, but they will give us "a comparable outcome".

According to the liberals, wireless was "a comparable outcome" last election, so presumably they will give us a wireless "comparable outcome" if they get into power.

 

"The Coalition's aim is not to cancel contracts but rather, renegotiate existing contracts where possible to accommodate different architectures and lower the capital cost of the network and hence, the end cost to consumers,"

 

Hmmmmm

 

In Vic we have a Liberal government, and I've already had a gutful. One of the primary election promises (not a "non core" election promise) was a pay rise for teachers. More than that actually, they said Victorian teachers were the worst paid in Australia, and would be the best paid under a Liberal government. Well guess what, so far they haven't given them anything. From what I've heard, their offers have been frankly insulting, and the teachers are striking.

 

Add to that Tony Abbott, and I seriously don't see how they are a viable party for the next election. This is the same Tony Abbott, that lead the entire RU486 schmozzle, and then when he lost control of that, publicly backed off but told the private sector not to even bother trying to get it registered for use. If he's leading, them they aren't viable, as far as I'm concerned, he's not a fit leader and a party that wants to delay (yet again) any action on climate is pathetic. Look at any review of their "direct action" plan on climate, and you'll see that it's "no action" on climate.

I see your point, would you think that Labor is a viable option then? given these reasons, or just a slightly more viable?

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Sorta Nuke.

 

Telecom Australia had a reliable income stream for the govt. This is why they COULD sell it.

 

Liberal sold it based on "The income was not covering the rest of the debts". I don't agree with the method. I'd have preferred to service the debts in a different way.

 

And if we kept with the Liberal method it would work. But the trade off is that it's about 200x more difficult to reinvest in the future.

 

The govt did learn. Look at the seperation of the electricity companies. Retail vs infrastructure. Evonomists fall down on boths sides of this, so it's obviously the right path. When both sides of economics disagree, you've chosen the right path in my books.

 

And Telstra HAS got the highest rate of coverage with the highest speeds at the moment. I would hate to see them if Optus and Vodafone WEREN'T there. It'd suck. But competition.. Needs competition.

 

AD

Is that not because they own all the infrastructure?

 

FWIW I doubt that the highest speeds arguement is true in regards to ADSL2+ (I don't know about wireless) because places serviced by a TPG owned exchange can get full speed ADSL2+ with an unlimited cap for less than $50 a month, add to that the fact TPG and other similar companies also offer a naked service (where telsuck don't) it means that lower cost, unlimited, fast ADSL2+ from other companies is far better and far cheaper than anything Telstra offer.

 

If these services (like Naked ADSL2+and unlimited data caps) are available through other companies, why can't Telstra offer it?

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I see your point, would you think that Labor is a viable option then? given these reasons, or just a slightly more viable?

Based on his track record as health minister, Abbott considers being voted into power to be about representing his personal views.

He demonstrated that as health minister, his personal views are the most important things to him, and trump any duty of care he may have to the entire public of Australia (half of which are women).

Much as I dislike Julia and Kevin, to me they don't embody the myopic psychopathy of Abbott.

 

If Abbott would treat my vote for the Liberal party, as a vote for his personal views, then it's worse than me failing to vote.

He's leading the Liberal party because he was better at the small-target opposition game than Turnbull, who is far more of a doer and thinker than Abbott. Turnbull talked alternatives to Labor's policy, Abbott is preventing any serious discussion, because he doesn't want to be criticised for his views, which are impossible if you don't explain them.

 

I personally think that going into the election, the Liberals under Abbott are going to face so much flack that they won't win, and we end up with Labor by default.

I'd much rather a healthy, viable Liberal party.

 

So my point isn't that Labor is good, it's just that for me, they don't have massive deal-breakers. At least (in a way) they've demonstrated that they can (for better or worse) act on public sentiment. If you want to look charitably at Rudd's dumping.

Edited by TinBane

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Look at any review of their "direct action" plan on climate, and you'll see that it's "no action" on climate.

Which IMO nicely sums up their position on just about everything (if not everything). They are the do nothing party (except for the dreaded "wearedoomeddoomeddoomed, we'llallbekilledinourbeds" illegal refugee invasion), because doing something might open them up to some sort of criticism. Safer to sit on your hands and let everything go where it will with no policy direction from our elected representatives.

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Dude there's a year to the election!

 

I realise it is early in the campaign, but that doesn't mean people haven't formulated an opinion, if you haven't, you can just say so, or move a long. IDC which :).

 

Early in the campaign?

 

I call it premature election.

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Nuke: Where is the benefit to Telstra providing a naked line? Financially?

 

They have to install equipment to use their own lines?

 

They'd be better off saving that money and offering lower rates.

 

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The basics are the Coalition has no idea, have not costed anything and have not released anything definite about what they plan to actually do (seems to change on a daily basis).

Neither have Labor.

 

In fact, labor are rolling out the NBN purely politically and with little idea of their own targets.

 

Add to that Tony Abbott, and I seriously don't see how they are a viable party for the next election. This is the same Tony Abbott, that lead the entire RU486 schmozzle, and then when he lost control of that, publicly backed off but told the private sector not to even bother trying to get it registered for use. If he's leading, them they aren't viable, as far as I'm concerned, he's not a fit leader and a party that wants to delay (yet again) any action on climate is pathetic. Look at any review of their "direct action" plan on climate, and you'll see that it's "no action" on climate.

I would just like to point out that RU486 came onto the market on the 30th of August this year because no drug company ever applied to register RU486.

 

What Tony Abbott did 6 years ago, is only of limited value because even though RU486 got approved in a conscience vote, it still wouldn't have appeared on the Australian market for 6 years.

 

Look at any review of their "direct action" plan on climate, and you'll see that it's "no action" on climate.

Which IMO nicely sums up their position on just about everything (if not everything). They are the do nothing party (except for the dreaded "wearedoomeddoomeddoomed, we'llallbekilledinourbeds" illegal refugee invasion), because doing something might open them up to some sort of criticism. Safer to sit on your hands and let everything go where it will with no policy direction from our elected representatives.

 

The Labor plan on climate is also "no action" on climate.

 

However if your vote depends on who can change the weather better... well lets just say... it's a very flimsy argument you're making.

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