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kamerong

U.S Ambassador killed by angry Libyan mob

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The middle east has been a hotspot for over a decade now

LOL.

 

A bit longer than that, too many peoples of varying faiths in an area of relatively scant resources, not maybe since the fall of the Persian and then Roman Empire... Alot of infrastructure was installed under those two, I mean "what have the Romans ever done for us!"

 

Also, too many religions, too many religious people, the tendency for irrational thought just explodes.

 

America although their hands aren't clean are an easy scapegoat.....

 

Also hate is easy. Solutions are hard.

 

 

Oh I'm pretty sure the aggro was going on long before religion came into it. After all, wasn't Mohammud's coup det'at uniting the perpetually feuding tribes against a common enemy (i.e. everybody else)? 'Religion' is simply one of the many excuses that violent, selfish people use to justify their actions, and given that most religious source documents seem top preach about some kind of peaceful coexistence it's a bit of a stretch when people simply blame 'religion'. Solutions are not hard, it's called 'maturity'.

 

I'm pretty sure I covered alot of that in my first sentence... Wait... I did!!!!!

 

Anyway, Religion is at the crux of the matter now, people just love arguing over it. Yes, of course it's an excuse that selfish people use, and it is a crass and ridiculously over-generalised statement that I made, which under analysis is obviously incorrect, but never the less apt.

 

Religion, has and always will be the cause of difference and bloodshed, yes, of course it's done at the hands of people who go against the tennants of rational belief, but you can't argue that it isn't at the centre.

 

Solutions are not hard, it's called 'maturity'. HA! So easily said from a seat of comfort.... You can't be fucking serious!!??? Really.... try to see the world through someone elses eyes.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Hlass is by far the most ideological guy on the forums. He has no position whatsoever, on anything that is not considered left-wing.

At least we can always rely on you to be right Leonid....

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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The middle east has been a hotspot for over a decade now

LOL.

 

A bit longer than that, too many peoples of varying faiths in an area of relatively scant resources, not maybe since the fall of the Persian and then Roman Empire... Alot of infrastructure was installed under those two, I mean "what have the Romans ever done for us!"

 

Also, too many religions, too many religious people, the tendency for irrational thought just explodes.

 

America although their hands aren't clean are an easy scapegoat.....

 

Also hate is easy. Solutions are hard.

 

 

Oh I'm pretty sure the aggro was going on long before religion came into it. After all, wasn't Mohammud's coup det'at uniting the perpetually feuding tribes against a common enemy (i.e. everybody else)? 'Religion' is simply one of the many excuses that violent, selfish people use to justify their actions, and given that most religious source documents seem top preach about some kind of peaceful coexistence it's a bit of a stretch when people simply blame 'religion'. Solutions are not hard, it's called 'maturity'.

 

I'm pretty sure I covered alot of that in my first sentence... Wait... I did!!!!!

 

Anyway, Religion is at the crux of the matter now, people just love arguing over it. Yes, of course it's an excuse that selfish people use, and it is a crass and ridiculously over-generalised statement that I made, which under analysis is obviously incorrect, but never the less apt.

Religion, has and always will be the cause of difference and bloodshed, yes, of course it's done at the hands of people who go against the tennants of rational belief, but you can't argue that it isn't at the centre.

Sure I can, in fact that's what I thought I did? It's PEOPLE which are at the centre, 'religion' is just the excuse and if there were no religion (thanks Southpark) then the violence, ignorance and hatred would continue. The only thing that would change would be the justification.

 

Solutions are not hard, it's called 'maturity'. HA! So easily said from a seat of comfort.... You can't be fucking serious!!??? Really.... try to see the world through someone elses eyes.

Why?

 

What would that achieve in this case?

 

Do you think I'd reach a point where I would condone mindless violence and murder against innocent people simply because someone's God was allegedly disrespected? I guess I just don't understand what that level of disrespect feels like because nobody ever disses Jesus? Lucky for me I'm in my comfy Jesus chair. :)

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Hlass is by far the most ideological guy on the forums. He has no position whatsoever, on anything that is not considered left-wing.

At least we can always rely on you to be right Leonid....

 

Now's the time for that picture ReapermanSS :)

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Hlass is by far the most ideological guy on the forums. He has no position whatsoever, on anything that is not considered left-wing.

At least we can always rely on you to be right Leonid....

 

I C what U did there

 

Hlass is by far the most ideological guy on the forums. He has no position whatsoever, on anything that is not considered left-wing.

At least we can always rely on you to be right Leonid....

 

Now's the time for that picture ReapermanSS :)

 

And what U did there.

 

That's almost offensive.

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That's almost offensive.

One is glad to be of service :)

 

Pretty sure your analogy maker is broken, also get your irony levels checked.

And put down the hammer of hyperbole, you'll break something if you keep swinging it like you are.

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The middle east has been a hotspot for over a decade now

LOL.

 

A bit longer than that, too many peoples of varying faiths in an area of relatively scant resources, not maybe since the fall of the Persian and then Roman Empire... Alot of infrastructure was installed under those two, I mean "what have the Romans ever done for us!"

 

Also, too many religions, too many religious people, the tendency for irrational thought just explodes.

 

America although their hands aren't clean are an easy scapegoat.....

 

Also hate is easy. Solutions are hard.

 

+1.

 

In reverse order of foreign occuation of the middle east/central asia:

 

America and allies, Russia, England, the Ottoman empire, the Crusader sates, Byzantine Empire, Roman Empire, Kingdom of macedonia, Persian empire and egypt. That's the last 3000 years just off the top of my head and it doesn't include all of the transitional periods in between the collapse of the major empires.

 

Long story short the region has had a history of 10,000 years of too many people and not enough resources and due to its strategic location as the crossroads between eurpoe, asia and africa there has always been pressure from forces outside of the region to control it. Then there are all of the religious sites for all abrahamic religions and other religions considerations. And then there is the ethnic diversity between jews, arabs, persians, kurds, turks, pashtuns and the hundreds of other ethnicities.

 

The geopolitics of the middle east and central asia are ridiculously complicated and have been for a few thousand years now.

 

-X

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img

And yet you can't pin me to an ideology :)

 

Just try.

 

See if you can pin the ideology of a center-right economic atheist who supports a comprehensive welfare net and workchoices lite, comprehensive medical cover, supports gay rights, wants to abolish government ownership of media but not electricity assets, supports free speech, internet freedom, supports wars against terrorism (even global), a high immigration target, the pacific solution and a boosting of refugee intake, as well as federal funding for maternity leave.

 

if you can pin me to a specific ideology I'd be much obliged.

 

You forgot about calling yourself a libertarian every 30 seconds for months, did you?

 

 

 

Christ you are lazy. Quoting someones own source back to them is not a very convincing way of showing you made an effort.

 

Call the Lancet "discredited" all you wish, your opinion doesn't matter. Of course it was widely criticised, the results were politically inexpedient, horrific and challenged the comfortable assumption that this "just" war was liberating not murdering the civilians of Iraqi.

 

It was well conducted along good epidemiological grounds and they saw the death certificates. It was peer reviewed and supported by the opinions of best practise of actual epidemiologists.

 

What is interesting is that no further studies have been made. Civilian deaths since 2007 have gone unstudied. Reported with gross inadequacy by IBC or claimed by governmental sources but not studied or surveyed.

 

So there have been many more years of killing to get the numbers up.

I want to answer just one more time, precisely how stupid you'd have to believe the Lancet study.

 

The study was published in 2006/07 from memory. It would have us believe the following:

- 2.5% of Iraqis were dead in three years from the effects of the war

- more Iraqis died in 3 years than did Americans in World War 2

- more Iraqis died than German soldiers in World War 2 fighting against the USSR, England, the USA, and Italy and being reduced to conscripting young boys.

- that Iraq suffered the same daily population loss of 550/day as did Japan in World War II, including the atomic strikes into the equation

 

Secondly, The Lancet stopped publicly defending Burnham, and AAPOR found that refusal to share his methodology "violates the fundamental standards of science" and undermines survey research in general:

The Executive Council of the American Association for Public Opinion Research (AAPOR) announced Tuesday that an 8-month investigation found that Dr. Gilbert Burnham violated the Association's Code of Professional Ethics & Practices.

.

So the best material you can come up with is that "WWII happened"? Personal incredulity isn’t an argument.

 

And that a small organisation from a different field, of which Dr Burnham is not a member of, has decided that he has violated their standards. Standards that 2200 people on the globe (their members) are bound by.

 

Neither Dr. Burnham nor the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health are members of AAPOR. Tim Parsons, public affairs director of the Bloomberg School wrote in an official statement that the school was "not in a position to comment" on AAPOR's findings because the school is not a member of the organization and "does not know what procedures or standards were followed in reaching the decision regarding this study." Parsons also noted that the school was nearing completion of its own investigation into the study.[55]

 

At least one article has been written critical of AAPOR's decision to censure Burnham. Debora MacKenzie, writing in New Scientist, said "There is no direct evidence that the latest attack on Burnham is politically motivated," but the APPOR's stated purpose, "to ensure survey-based research meets high standards," has itself "been questioned by experts." which MacKnenzie does not name.[56]

 

According to New Scientist's investigation... Burnham has sent his data and methods to other researchers, who found it sufficient. A spokesman for the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins, where Burnham works, says the school advised him not to send his data to AAPOR, as the group has no authority to judge the research. The "correct forum", it says, is the scientific literature.

 

And you missed this bit (unsurprisingly) from your quoting of AAPOR's words…

 

When researchers draw important conclusions and make public statements and arguments based on survey research data, then subsequently refuse to answer even basic questions about how their research was conducted, this violates the fundamental standards of science

What does "basic questions" mean? Not handing over all the data to this small group from a different discipline. Why would he?

They need to read their own journal..

 

"I know that they have shared the data for reanalysis with others, including some vociferous critics," says Richard Garfield of Columbia University in New York, who has analysed mortality studies in Iraq. "So I am not sure what the censure really is about."

 

In fact, in March 2008, AAPOR's own journal, Public Opinion Quarterly, published an analysis of Burnham's Iraq survey by David Marker of Westat, a consultancy in Maryland that designs surveys. "I received the dataset they distributed. I also saw presentations they made about their methodology and they responded to a number of inquiries I made," he says.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1655...s-estimate.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Civilian deaths since 2007 have gone unstudied]

 

Very lazy Hlass. You didn't even read the wiki link. Otherwise you wouldn't be making this nonsensical claim.

Dude if you don't understand something have a little think before getting hysterical.

Edited by Hlass

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Hmm,

 

I suppose it is the modern era of conflict that should concern us.

 

!948 - War of Independence following the Holocaust and the return from the Diaspora

 

1956 - Suez Campaign

 

1967 - Six Day War - pre-empted by Israel, they had little choice

 

1968 - 1972 - War of attrition - not a declared war but aggressive

 

1973 - the October or Yom Kippur war, Israel lost ground, but it didn't really want most of it anyway - consequence of '67

 

Since then terrorism and occasional strikes by Israel such as the destruction of the Iraqi reactor.

 

It's bemusing, I support Israel, and make no bones of it, they deserve a homeland and have worked hard to improve their land. So do the Palestinians, but no Arab state wants to give ground or absorb them except as virtual slaves.

 

Israel has been brutalised by all that conflict, there is no doubt. I've lived there, and visited most countries in the ME. I would not put percentages on it but most people everywhere are just people, and want peace.

 

Which leads to the old homily " if you want peace, be ready for war."

 

Not soon for the former I'm afraid.

 

Cheers

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:

Really, Aaron Russo? A 911 troofer like yourself?

 

That's your source of truth? Without siting a single source of evidence?

 

Try this, troofer boy: http://www.wluml.org/sites/wluml.org/files...SF-1h-final.pdf - It's an organisation of women reporting on women living under Islamic laws.

 

Yes, Aaron Russo. What has him talking about 9/11 got to do with anything? My 'source of truth'? WTF? 'Without siting a single source of evidence?'? What are you on about? Evidence for what? The interview IS evidence for what is said in the interview and I doubt it's got anything that's contrary to the 200 page file you linked. Edited by fajw

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Jesus Christ

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/14/...E8KECE820120914

 

(Reuters) - Sudan's police fired teargas on Friday to stop about 5,000 demonstrators storming the German and British embassies to protest against an anti-Islam film, a Reuters witness said.

 

Protesters hurled stones at the two embassies which are next to each other in Khartoum and tried storming the main gates, a witness said

What the fuck do the Germans and British have to do with the film?

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Jesus Christ

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/14/...E8KECE820120914

 

(Reuters) - Sudan's police fired teargas on Friday to stop about 5,000 demonstrators storming the German and British embassies to protest against an anti-Islam film, a Reuters witness said.

 

Protesters hurled stones at the two embassies which are next to each other in Khartoum and tried storming the main gates, a witness said

What the fuck do the Germans and British have to do with the film?

 

probably because they saw white people there

Edited by xnatex

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Probably because they saw white people there

 

What an outstanding contribution.... How old are you again?

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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its probably true, what pearl of logic would you attribute to this senseless violence?

 

They even tore down the German flag to replace it with their black Islamic one

Edited by xnatex

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Jesus Christ

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/14/...E8KECE820120914

 

(Reuters) - Sudan's police fired teargas on Friday to stop about 5,000 demonstrators storming the German and British embassies to protest against an anti-Islam film, a Reuters witness said.

 

Protesters hurled stones at the two embassies which are next to each other in Khartoum and tried storming the main gates, a witness said

What the fuck do the Germans and British have to do with the film?

 

Don't you know... Germans Brits and Americans have been best buds 4 eva...

 

Remember when they all faked WW1 & WW2 in order to make secret movie studios....

 

 

Actually, the whole situation is very unfortunate and quite serious, we don't know what the people are being told or believe, they could believe it's made by the US government...

 

But what's really sad is the mob's seem to be falling for the movie maker's obvious ruse... IMO he intentionally made this this film to incite violence kinda like Charles Manson trying to start the race war, he even went as far as to say he is Jewish.....

 

Joe Nobody has made a hate film to try to divide people, it's just unfortunate that it seems to be working...

Edited by Chuck Norris(good actor

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Jesus Christ

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/14/...E8KECE820120914

 

(Reuters) - Sudan's police fired teargas on Friday to stop about 5,000 demonstrators storming the German and British embassies to protest against an anti-Islam film, a Reuters witness said.

 

Protesters hurled stones at the two embassies which are next to each other in Khartoum and tried storming the main gates, a witness said

What the fuck do the Germans and British have to do with the film?

 

I think the correct answer is 'who cares'?

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It just goes to show this is a religion for War and enticing acts of war. If the same was said about the christian religions we would all have a laugh and forget about it.

 

Just wonder what is happening in the Middle East it seems to be sliding down a path to full scale.

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Hmm,

 

I wouldn't regard that as a war in the true sense any more than rockets coming out of Gaza to strike Israel but on a larger scale, no war was declared, but it was very messy.

 

The simple truth is there has been precious little in the way of peace since Israel was established.

 

Cheers

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Surprise, surprise.

 

Gaddafi is gone so other thugs are causing trouble in the country.

 

News programs making the rebels sound like noble freedom fighters was always good for a laugh, a large proportion of them also had messed up political/religious views.

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Jesus Christ

What the fuck do the Germans and British have to do with the film?

probably because they saw white people there

 

Sounds silly until you realise it's a bunch of idiots rioting about a movie they haven't even seen. They don't strike me as well-informed, rational individuals.

 

Of course, there's always the chance that they're just using the movie as a convenient excuse.

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. They don't strike me as well-informed, rational individuals.

Because murder, and rioting are always founded on well-informed, rational decisions. :P

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Sydney has people walking around with signs saying "Behead those that insult Islam" (or something to that line).

 

Good to see we have these well adjusted fellows in our country as well.

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