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xnatex

Islamist attack Sydney police over offensive youtube video

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Sorry I didn't reply before Leonid, I was away from my computer and don't have as much Net access now days as I used too.

 

Moving on, I didn't want to open a discussion with you, there's nothing to discuss, as I said before it's clear where you stand on your personal point of view, for people who know a bit about you it's fairly obvious why you think and feel that way. But because of that bias I don't see us ever having a proper conversation. There would be no middle ground in our viewpoints to reach because I feel you never want to move from your initial position, it's the same with any topic that you get this way about.

I like how personal experience is automatically bias...

 

as opposed to some people on here who are just armchair experts.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Today, Sir Salman He described how multiculturalism’s “evil twin” was “moral relativism”, in which people accept actions from a “particular group for beliefs which you would condemn otherwise”.

"Evil twin" is a bit far removed.

 

"Unavoidable part" is more apt, I reckon.

 

Maybe. I just find it hilarious that Hlass defends or tries to say we shouldn't hate on Islam when he, as a socialist atheist knows full well the following facts:

1. Human rights under Islam, as practised, are a joke

2. Islam hates left-wing activity, seeing it as unislamic

3. Of all current religions, Islam as practised by the majority of its adherents, is on average the most dogmatic

4. The current tally for religious violence is rather heavily on the side of Islam

 

So when he says things like "But Muslims at the moment are considered fair game", implying that Islam is not fair game - one has to ask - does he actually believe in his principles more than he does in the rights of protected minorities to stomp on them?

 

At the very least Hlass, be honest with us. If you want to enforce your principles only on white and slightly tanned people - let us know that the darker brown shades are exempt from your principles because of how they've been treated by Uncle Sam, the general meanness of being in a minority and the actions of Big Coal, Big Zinc, Big Oil and Big Bird in ruining their wonderful sandy paradises.

 

Or tell us that any religion that not only hates on, but also carries out its threats in any number of religious incidents world-wide, might just be a problematic ideology, worthy of derision and robust criticism. Even if it is practised by less wealthy, less educated and darker coloured people.

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

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So drinking at 7am in the park, waiting for "the Lebs" to show up is a fucking fun day out now? Give me a break. Some fucking bogans got pissed while eating their VB drenched Wheet-Bix, saw two adolescent "Lebo's" in the park, created a circle around them and pelted them with bottles. Don't even try to say "it was a fun day, but perhaps they got a little tipsy and things got messy". People went there with the intention of "defending their land", put on their Australian flags as capes, and fucking beat the shit out of any ethnic they could find. It was a disgrace to our nation.

Thank you for confirming that it was indeed alcohol-fuelled violence and not the standard behaviour of Australian bogans.

Thank you for confirming that alcohol-fueled violence is the standard behavior for Australian bogans.

 

 

You misunderstand. Arresting these people does nothing for their Islamic extremism. We saw that with GTMO - too many re-offenders.

Maybe not, but does throwing a car thief in jail do anything other than keep him off the streets and out of the public mind? Why should terrorism or extremism be any different to another criminal?

 

So now we're talking about the KKK which is a hate organisation? I'm cool with that. Lets label Islam a hate ideology as well (hell, the shoe fits) and talk about that in context.

What's happening in the Middle East is people rioting, threatening to chop heads and marching on the US Consulate over a hilariously bad film about some bloke called Mo, then throwing shit and injuring coppers. Sounds EXACTLY like what happened here.

Sure, call Extreme Islam a hate organisation, you're correct in describing almost any extremist organisation as such. But my point, and the point of others in this thread has been that just because there are extremists, doesn't mean everyone associated with Islam is as bad as you're saying they are. Even some of the most hardcore Islamists don't support the 6th Pillar, something that these morons were wearing printed on their shirts on Saturday. These idiots on Saturday are the Muslim equivalent of a redneck bogan, and should be ignored, or when breaking the law, arrested like anyone else. Pretty simple really.

 

Considering Christianity had nothing to do with the Norway attacks (you may as well round up all males because he was male), I'd suggest that the rounding up of all Christians might be a little early.

 

But certainly - we should bloody well keep tabs on militant right-wingers who purchase weapons and write millenarianist manifestos.

my point was there are crazies in every walk of life, and even a "peaceful" religion such as Christianity can contain complete psychopaths who given the chance will commit genocide to see their opinion heard.

 

I agree, and have all along that fundamentalists and extremists have no place in our society, I just think we need to be very careful how we deal with the "Muslim problem" over the coming weeks/months/years. Fighting fire with fire won't really do much for anyone.

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Sorry I didn't reply before Leonid, I was away from my computer and don't have as much Net access now days as I used too.

 

Moving on, I didn't want to open a discussion with you, there's nothing to discuss, as I said before it's clear where you stand on your personal point of view, for people who know a bit about you it's fairly obvious why you think and feel that way. But because of that bias I don't see us ever having a proper conversation. There would be no middle ground in our viewpoints to reach because I feel you never want to move from your initial position, it's the same with any topic that you get this way about.

I like how personal experience is automatically bias...

 

as opposed to some people on here who are just armchair experts.

 

 

Doesn't make him wrong. Bias isn't always a bad thing. Plus I'm wondering if you even know what I'm referring to there, I was talking to Leonid.

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How many people die as a function of angry surfers?

 

You know for comparison... with extremist Muslims.

That's a facile argument.

 

How many people died yesterday in Sydney?

 

None.

 

How many died in the Cronulla riots?

 

None.

 

It's only a facile argument because you're doing your best to compare a once-in-a-lifetime riot of a bunch of drunk bogans with the favourite pasttime of a rather larger number of people who have quite a kill tally to their name.

 

The 'rather larger number of people' are a rather larger number of people and so if both groups were equal we would see a rather larger number of killings from the 'rather larger number of people'. The fact that there are more killings from the 'rather larger number of people' does not mean that group is worse.

 

 

In the Middle East their is no peace and will not see peace until US forces stop stirring up Trouble over terrorism.

I doubt terrorism is really why US forces are there

 

What happened on September 9/11 was the start of World War 3 and we will not see and end of this until something is done in UN.

The war in Afghanistan is UN sanctioned. I wouldn't trust UN.

 

 

In another thought thread, sure, the burka is intimidating, it is anonimising. But it is a part of their religious heritage.

I am not a fan of the Burka.

 

I feel the burka has no place in modern society and that all that it does is create an us and them mentality for both those that choose to wear it and those that don't.

 

Edit: I can feel the shit storm brewing....

 

I feel people should be free to wear what they like. So unless there is some sort of security issue I think people should be free to wear the burka. Is it harming anyone?

 

 

The world's most dangerous religion, with the most violent hatred, with the highest religious kill tally

Wow; you know about all the religions of the world? How do you know Islam is 'the world's most dangerous religion'? What does 'the highest religious kill tally' mean? Edited by fajw

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In another thought thread, sure, the burka is intimidating, it is anonimising. But it is a part of their religious heritage.

I am not a fan of the Burka.

 

I feel the burka has no place in modern society and that all that it does is create an us and them mentality for both those that choose to wear it and those that don't.

 

Edit: I can feel the shit storm brewing....

 

I feel people should be free to wear what they like. So unless there is some sort of security issue I think people should be free to wear the burka. Is it harming anyone?

 

You do know how to read right?

 

People are free to wear whatever they want, I simply stated i don't like it because of the divide i feel it creates.

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The world's most dangerous religion, with the most violent hatred, with the highest religious kill tally

Wow; you know about all the religions of the world? How do you know Islam is 'the world's most dangerous religion'? What does 'the highest religious kill tally' mean?

 

 

Yep, violent fuckkers.

 

Just look at how they slaughter their meat.

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In response to this act in Cronulla, a group of Lebs rocked up at Punchbowl Park with guns, machetes, baseball bats/iron bars, knives, chains and launched a revenge attack by smashing shops and cars and threatening people who got in their way - 4 people went to hospital with serious injuries. Shots were fired.

 

The same happened in Maroubra.

 

Lebanon, as a country, is split roughly in half, Muslims & Christians. Do you know how many Christian Lebs went on a rampage? I'll bet my left testicle it was 0.

"Rampage" when?

 

When they rioted in response to the Cronulla riots.

 

How many Christian Lebs do you think there were in the response rampage through suburbia?

 

 

No idea. You have some evidence you would like to share?

 

No. I have a hypothesis. An edumacated guesstimate based on years of interacting with both communities.

 

0.

 

What's your hypothesis Hlass? I've put up my left nut as a stake.

 

In fact Hlass, I'm going to up the stakes - not only were there no Christians involved, there were no Allawites either.

 

Just Sunni Islamists.

 

Allawites and Christians have better things to do than go on pointless revenge rampages.

 

So no evidence. Then we can stop this pointless detour into added Muslim bashing. There are more Christian Lebs in Australia than Islamic ones. Come up with something actual and not the twitching of your spidey senses, then we can talk.

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I was talking to a Lebanese guy I know this morning, late 50's, and he was saying they should be sent back where they came from, I found that amusing.

 

He said he escaped to this country to get away from those crazy fuckwits, I found that refreshing.

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I was talking to a Lebanese guy I know this morning, late 50's, and he was saying they should be sent back where they came from, I found that amusing.

 

He said he escaped to this country to get away from those crazy fuckwits, I found that refreshing.

I've heard that sentiment expressed by a lot of the first generation to come here about the generations after.

 

Usually in regards to Serbs and Croats though.

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In another thought thread, sure, the burka is intimidating, it is anonimising. But it is a part of their religious heritage.

I am not a fan of the Burka.

 

I feel the burka has no place in modern society and that all that it does is create an us and them mentality for both those that choose to wear it and those that don't.

 

Edit: I can feel the shit storm brewing....

 

I feel people should be free to wear what they like. So unless there is some sort of security issue I think people should be free to wear the burka. Is it harming anyone?

 

You do know how to read right?

 

People are free to wear whatever they want, I simply stated i don't like it because of the divide i feel it creates.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. You don't like the freedom to wear the burka or you just have a personal dislike for the burka?

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There must be something in the water. Headfucks abound in/from the Central/Eastern Mediterranean area.

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There must be something in the water. Headfucks abound in/from the Central/Eastern Mediterranean area.

You can get them anywhere. The Lithuanians all kill themselves, the Hondurans all kill each other and the Moldavians are all drunk.

Edited by Hlass

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In another thought thread, sure, the burka is intimidating, it is anonimising. But it is a part of their religious heritage.

I am not a fan of the Burka.

 

I feel the burka has no place in modern society and that all that it does is create an us and them mentality for both those that choose to wear it and those that don't.

 

Edit: I can feel the shit storm brewing....

 

I feel people should be free to wear what they like. So unless there is some sort of security issue I think people should be free to wear the burka. Is it harming anyone?

 

You do know how to read right?

 

People are free to wear whatever they want, I simply stated i don't like it because of the divide i feel it creates.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. You don't like the freedom to wear the burka or you just have a personal dislike for the burka?

 

Sorry... it seems smaller words and phrases are required.

 

I personally do not like the burka as i feel it creates a divide between cultures.

 

And that i understand the reasoning behind the burka, but i believe that they should no longer be relevant to a modern society (even if they still apply).

Edited by Xen

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In response to this act in Cronulla, a group of Lebs rocked up at Punchbowl Park with guns, machetes, baseball bats/iron bars, knives, chains and launched a revenge attack by smashing shops and cars and threatening people who got in their way - 4 people went to hospital with serious injuries. Shots were fired.

 

The same happened in Maroubra.

 

Lebanon, as a country, is split roughly in half, Muslims & Christians. Do you know how many Christian Lebs went on a rampage? I'll bet my left testicle it was 0.

"Rampage" when?

 

When they rioted in response to the Cronulla riots.

 

How many Christian Lebs do you think there were in the response rampage through suburbia?

 

 

No idea. You have some evidence you would like to share?

 

No. I have a hypothesis. An edumacated guesstimate based on years of interacting with both communities.

 

0.

 

What's your hypothesis Hlass? I've put up my left nut as a stake.

 

In fact Hlass, I'm going to up the stakes - not only were there no Christians involved, there were no Allawites either.

 

Just Sunni Islamists.

 

Allawites and Christians have better things to do than go on pointless revenge rampages.

 

So no evidence. Then we can stop this pointless detour into added Muslim bashing. There are more Christian Lebs in Australia than Islamic ones. Come up with something actual and not the twitching of your spidey senses, then we can talk.

 

Easily - wanna play a game where we look into religions of all people ever convicted of terrorism offences under Australian law?

 

How many Christian lebs you gonna see?

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Interesting comment.

 

Leo would know, Hassidic Jews dress differently, practice total non-violence, are excused military service, they are not oppressed by the Israelis.

 

Cheers

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There must be something in the water. Headfucks abound in/from the Central/Eastern Mediterranean area.

You can get them anywhere. The Lithuanians all kill themselves, the Hondurans all kill each other and the Moldavians are all drunk.

 

That's pretty fine form from someone who continually moans about others using negative stereotypes and making sweeping generalizations about ethnic groups.

 

Oh, and you left out the Albanians.

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In another thought thread, sure, the burka is intimidating, it is anonimising. But it is a part of their religious heritage.

I am not a fan of the Burka.

 

I feel the burka has no place in modern society and that all that it does is create an us and them mentality for both those that choose to wear it and those that don't.

 

Edit: I can feel the shit storm brewing....

 

I feel people should be free to wear what they like. So unless there is some sort of security issue I think people should be free to wear the burka. Is it harming anyone?

 

You do know how to read right?

 

People are free to wear whatever they want, I simply stated i don't like it because of the divide i feel it creates.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. You don't like the freedom to wear the burka or you just have a personal dislike for the burka?

 

Sorry... it seems smaller words and phrases are required.

 

I personally do not like the burka as i feel it creates a divide between cultures.

 

And that i understand the reasoning behind the burka, but i believe that they should no longer be relevant to a modern society (even if they still apply).

 

Do you believe it should be illegal to wear a burka?

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Sorry I didn't reply before Leonid, I was away from my computer and don't have as much Net access now days as I used too.

 

Moving on, I didn't want to open a discussion with you, there's nothing to discuss, as I said before it's clear where you stand on your personal point of view, for people who know a bit about you it's fairly obvious why you think and feel that way. But because of that bias I don't see us ever having a proper conversation. There would be no middle ground in our viewpoints to reach because I feel you never want to move from your initial position, it's the same with any topic that you get this way about.

You speak as if there's a middle ground to be reached with these people when they themselves will tell you they don't want to negotiate.

 

What's your middle ground gonna be? You gonna offer to suspend freedom of speech so we can't say bad things about their stupid fairy tale? Maybe you'll give them another system of law so they're happy?

 

Like I said, I'm an immigrant. I wasn't lucky enough to be born here like you were. I speak another language - you don't, so I'm able to experience first hand what I gained from coming here - you never will. I've had the values statement read to me. I stood with my parents at the ceremony and proudly sang the anthem in my new language, aged 9 years old. I remember the Waverley mayor at the time tousling my hair, shaking dad's hand. I remember part of his speech.

 

No Australian born has experienced the moment where you shed the nationality of an oppressive country and adopt a new fair, decent, flawed and open nation. And you probably never will as long as Australia remains such a great country.

 

So let me give it to you very straight, as an immigrant who remembers the values the visa is conditional on: if you can't leave behind the oppressive violence and ideology of where you came from, either don't bother coming, or go back where you came from.

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So let me give it to you very straight, as an immigrant who remembers the values the visa is conditional on: if you can't leave behind the oppressive violence and ideology of where you came from, either don't bother coming, or go back where you came from.

Hang on there Leonid, are you suggesting that people can CHOOSE not to be assholes? That doesn't sound right...

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There must be something in the water. Headfucks abound in/from the Central/Eastern Mediterranean area.

You can get them anywhere. The Lithuanians all kill themselves, the Hondurans all kill each other and the Moldavians are all drunk.

 

That's pretty fine form from someone who continually moans about others using negative stereotypes and making sweeping generalizations about ethnic groups.

 

Oh, and you left out the Albanians.

 

Well this is the best thread for it...

 

Sorry Albania. Won't happen again.

 

 

 

Isn't there a gene for arseholism?

Nah it's a infection transmitted by needle when you get a Southern Cross tattoo...

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Right.

 

So let me get this straight. You object to the stereotyping of Muslims on the basis of 300 extremists because that would mean that you could stereotype all Aussies on the basis of drunk surfers?

Pretty much.

 

Although it’s probably more accurate to say that I object to stereotyping people. Full stop.

You've got issues to sort out. You're seeing things that aren't there.

So, I imagined you questioning me on numerous occasions about the relevance of the Cronulla Riots?

I love how you want a basic level of respect but then give none yourself.

I disagree that I don't respect people, but I do have a hard time respecting certain opinions. Some of them include:

 

- That people murdered in movie theatres deserved their fate;

- That we should forcefully remove certain religious adherents from our community;

- That Abo’s are delinquent criminals;

- That we can generalise someone’s character by the religion they follow;

- That homosexuals are dirty.

 

Having said that, I’ll admit it Leonid, I'm not the Dalai Lama. There have been occasions where I have overstepped the mark when speaking to people. Where that has happened, I've either apologised in thread, or made a point of speaking to them over PM to apologise, or make the point that I bear them no ill will.

 

I'm sure you can testify to all of those things yourself.

But you're not a god among men. Just because I listen doesn't mean I gotta agree with your demented ideas.

You’ve found me out Leonid! I'm not a god. As I said above, I'm not even the living embodiment of a god.

 

I'd be interested to hear which of my ideas are "demented" but, nonetheless, it would seem apparent that, by calling my opinions "demented", you have a similarly difficult time respecting certain opinions.

You just want to tell everyone how fucking right you are.

There's a word I'm looking for. Starts with "h". Ends with "ypocrisy".

Cute!

 

As I said Leonid, we're probably getting past the time where any reasonable conversation can continue on this subject. Once again, it's become survival of the loudest and, as usual, you're pretty loud, so I’ll reserve the next post for your inevitable reply and leave you to your increasingly apparent prejudices.

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