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Akamatsu

Apple Tax™ on the new 27" iMac

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Some wild argument looks like above.

 

 

Whatever.

 

I'd go option #3 then install OS X, Windows and Linux on it. It's not that hard, did it for the first time a few months back and only took a few hours. Heaps of guides on the net, Nvidia is a better choice to get OS X on as well and the rest of the components look fine. You're paying a heavy premium for the all in one aspect.

 

What are you leaning toward.

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$200-$300 isn't much of a premium, and you get great design and integration as well as stability. Also resale is great and the real upgrade path when it comes to apple.

For some people it is.

 

Obviously, if you value being able to upgrade things like the graphics card, then that's a negative for the iMac.

But for most users (not most users on this forum) the iMac is a good choice. Because let's be honest, how many members of the general public upgrade their graphics card?

Normally they upgrade their computer, because their kids have rooted windows installing malware.

You wouldn't see someone on atomic upgrading for that reason!

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This morning, I was looking into whether I paid my bigpond bill or not because I felt there was as slowdown. Then, IIRC, one of the headlines said, "Australians to pay no more premium for Apple goods" (or something to that effect). That Apple will charge whatever people are paying in the US. Can anyone confirm or deny this??

 

EDIT: I am only asking this because I saw the headline this morning and now its no where to be seen.

Edited by strifus

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http://i.imgur.com/CzJ4V.jpg

 

Australian prices at the top, USA prices at the bottom.

 

Our prices are inclusive of GST. In the USA you have to add sales tax on to the price, and that varies from state to state.

 

Once you factor that in, the prices are pretty much the same.

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http://i.imgur.com/CzJ4V.jpg

 

Australian prices at the top, USA prices at the bottom.

 

Our prices are inclusive of GST. In the USA you have to add sales tax on to the price, and that varies from state to state.

 

Once you factor that in, the prices are pretty much the same.

Ah damn. I thought it was going to be for their entire line-up. Pity >.<

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This morning, I was looking into whether I paid my bigpond bill or not because I felt there was as slowdown. Then, IIRC, one of the headlines said, "Australians to pay no more premium for Apple goods" (or something to that effect). That Apple will charge whatever people are paying in the US. Can anyone confirm or deny this??

 

EDIT: I am only asking this because I saw the headline this morning and now its no where to be seen.

That's pricing on iTunes music which is forty plus percent marked up. Problem is, Apple don't set those prices, our local arms of the music industry do :/

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http://i.imgur.com/CzJ4V.jpg

 

Australian prices at the top, USA prices at the bottom.

 

Our prices are inclusive of GST. In the USA you have to add sales tax on to the price, and that varies from state to state.

 

Once you factor that in, the prices are pretty much the same.

Ah damn. I thought it was going to be for their entire line-up. Pity >.<

 

 

wut

 

My screenshot is just of the iMacs, but it applies across the range.

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bit late lets see if we can trim down the cost of the desktop without lowering performance below the mac

 

Intel Core i5 3470 $189.00

Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 $45.00

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 $75.00

Powercolor Radeon HD7770 GHz Edition 1GB $109.00

ASRock B75M-DGS Motherboard $59.00

Antec Neo Eco 450C 450W Power Supply $59.00

CoolerMaster Elite 341 mATX $39.00

Logitech C270 HD Webcam $27.00

Logitech MK260 Wireless Desktop $29.00

Creative SBS A35 2.0 Speaker System $9.00

Astrotek V-301 3.5in Internal USB 3.0 Card Reader $19.00

TP-Link TL-WN881ND Wireless N PCI Express Adapter $19.00

Iogear Bluetooth 4.0 USB Micro Adapter $25

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM $95.00

 

 

Sub-Total: $798 + post from one store although the Bluetooth 4.0 was from another store as pccg only had 2.0 for $12

Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27"LED when on one of its regular specials $559 which from what i have read should be higher quality than the imac screen

 

$1537

so obviously a cheap and ugly case for you to hide away but is how it looks worth the $600 price difference?

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bit late lets see if we can trim down the cost of the desktop without lowering performance below the mac

 

Intel Core i5 3470 $189.00

Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 $45.00

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 $75.00

Powercolor Radeon HD7770 GHz Edition 1GB $109.00

ASRock B75M-DGS Motherboard $59.00

Antec Neo Eco 450C 450W Power Supply $59.00

CoolerMaster Elite 341 mATX $39.00

Logitech C270 HD Webcam $27.00

Logitech MK260 Wireless Desktop $29.00

Creative SBS A35 2.0 Speaker System $9.00

Astrotek V-301 3.5in Internal USB 3.0 Card Reader $19.00

TP-Link TL-WN881ND Wireless N PCI Express Adapter $19.00

Iogear Bluetooth 4.0 USB Micro Adapter $25

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM $95.00

 

 

Sub-Total: $798 + post from one store although the Bluetooth 4.0 was from another store as pccg only had 2.0 for $12

Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27"LED when on one of its regular specials $559 which from what i have read should be higher quality than the imac screen

 

$1537

so obviously a cheap and ugly case for you to hide away but is how it looks worth the $600 price difference?

Forget the aesthetics:

 

$600 extra to-

 

- Not have to build it yourself (The above is a raw list of parts, unassembled, right?)

- Not have to faff about installing the OS, and then installing drivers (Unless your time is worthless?)

- Get technical support by appointment, and usually same-day hardware replacement (Think of the excruciating RMA process if any of the above parts fail)

- Get technical support by people who can speak Englsh (Dell, Lenovo, etc do give you some over the phone support, but it's largely useless script-reading Indians)

- Get decent-quality amateur video and photo editing software included (iMovie and iPhoto are leagues ahead of Windows Movie Maker and, er, Paint?)

etc.

 

And let's be honest, the Webcam, Keyboard/Mouse, and Speaker set you've listed are pretty average. You'd want to spend a bit more than the bare minimum to match the quality of the peripherals the iMac comes with.

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yep my time is worthless :P that and i find making a pc rather therapeutic and think more people should find the time to do it

dont use tech support

if it was me i would probably go with a $10 wired kb and ~$30 wired mouse so i didnt have to worry about batteries

been through plenty of rma lately and while dell sends out a replacement right away i havent had any problems with sending other parts back (other than umart only offering 1 year warranty on items with longer warranty) although it does mean downtime without purchasing replacement parts

that price from apple only has 90 day tech support and 1 year warranty most the parts i listed have 3 year warranty

you really think the built in monitor speakers are high quality? wouldnt surprise me if they were better than the ones i listed though :)

 

there is some decent freeware editing programs out there

and if you want something better than both Adobe Photoshop Elements 11 & Premiere Elements 11 for Mac and Windows $136.95 +$32 post

 

 

while the base apple price isnt unreasonable for someone who wants all those things you listed it normally starts getting out of control when you look at the options like adding a ssd upgrading the ram & hdd ect but at this stage we dont know what those costs will be

Edited by Dasa

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yep my time is worthless :P that and i find making a pc rather therapeutic and think more people should find the time to do it

dont use tech support

Granted, but support is probably the biggest contributor to why Macs (and Dells, Lenovos, etc) are more expensive than the sum of their parts.

 

And hence why us nerds don't usually buy them for ourselves, because there's no sense in paying for something you won't use.

 

if it was me i would probably go with a $10 wired kb and ~$30 wired mouse so i didnt have to worry about batteries

been through plenty of rma lately and while dell sends out a replacement right away i havent had any problems with sending other parts back (other than umart only offering 1 year warranty on items with longer warranty) although it does mean downtime without purchasing replacement parts

Not being able to use your system for days is the nightmare!

 

Purchasing replacement parts could eat in to that $600 difference.

 

you really think the built in monitor speakers are high quality? wouldnt surprise me if they were better than the ones i listed though :)

Not audiophile quality, but surprisingly good, and certainly high-ER quality than any $9 set I've ever heard.

 

there is some decent freeware editing programs out there

and if you want something better than both Adobe Photoshop Elements 11 & Premiere Elements 11 for Mac and Windows $136.95 +$32 post

But that's one 1/6th of the price difference.

 

I compared the two back when I was preparing to start doing Retro Swim. iMovie 11 actually has a few key pieces of functionality that are lacking in Premiere Elements. Green-screen compositing and white balance adjustment for instance.

 

iPhoto has a few critical things that are missing from Photoshop Elements too, such as lens distortion profiles and noise cancellation. iPhoto is more comparable to Lightroom, which unfortunately doesn't have an "Elements" version.

 

Outside The GIMP, the free options are pretty lameburgers.

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$1537

so obviously a cheap and ugly case for you to hide away but is how it looks worth the $600 price difference?

It's a bit more than just looks - quality, sound, ergonomics and 5.8ghz wireless should also be considered. I was dismissive of paying extra for 5.8ghz equipment until I moved to an area saturated with 2.4ghz traffic, now it's become just about essential. However, I appreciate you putting the list together. I'm not very knowledgable on the current tech, and it's good to get an objective opinion.

 

Given that I can get the high end 27" iMac for $1837 delivered after my education discounts (depending on how the exchange rate shifts), I'm still leaning that way. The iMac will have significantly higher resale value, so I'm pretty confident I'll be able to recover the $300 difference.

Edited by Akamatsu

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ok apple prices with extras are now up

 

3.4GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz

32GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x8GB

3TB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB GDDR5

A$ 3,494

 

768GB Flash Storage

A$ 4,873.99

anyone have more details on just what this is?

 

vs pc

Intel Core i7 3770 $295

Gigabyte GA-H77M-D3H 3y $85

32g 1600 lifetime $138

7950 3g 2y $299

3tb 7200 2y $149

Lite-On IHBS312 12x Blu-Ray Disc Writer $75

FSP 450W Raider Series 80Plus Bronze PSU 5y $60

Silverstone TJ08-E Black M-ATX/ITX Case $99

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM $95

$1295

 

Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27"LED when on one of its regular specials $559

Logitech C270 HD Webcam $27

Microlab FC10 Black Finecone 2.0 Speaker $56

Internal USB 3.0 Card Reader $19

TP-Link TL-WDN4800 450Mbps Wireless N PCIe Adaptor $49

Iogear Bluetooth 4.0 USB Micro Adapter $25

Logitech Wireless Desktop MK710 3y warranty and battery life $79

$814

total $2109

 

SanDisk Extreme Solid State Drive 480GB $379 x2 960gb $758

total with ssd instead of hdd $2718

 

although most the cons SquallStrife listed still exist and the pc will probably use more power due to apple using a hybrid of desktop\mobile parts

 

edit or there is this all assembled $1861 with 768g of ssd + monitor (forgot card reader in the pic)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/pcbuild-1.jpg

Edited by Dasa

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My guess is that 768GB of flash storage for $1000+ would be an SSD.

 

Now wait for someone to try and tell you how there is greater perceived value in buying these upgrades from apple...

Edited by p0is0n

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Yeah, Apple are usually very poor value when it comes to options. I think it's because they rely heavily on the economies of scale, so the cost in disrupting and reorganising regular production lines is reflected in the price of the custom options. It's worth noting that Dell, HP, Acer etc. all do the same thing.

 

For the 27", the ram is user upgradable. For members of Atomic, there's simply no reason to buy more ram through Apple. For the regular consumer, you'd have to be doing professional work to justify wanting more than 8GB.

 

768GB SSD's are for people with too much money. The fact that the Samsung drive Apple use isn't available through regular retailers should be enough to indicate the target audience. Replacing it with three 256GB drives might be cost effective, but it also increases the chance of failure three-fold if you plan to RAID-0 them together (note that Apple must be using a single drive, as the option is available for their notebooks as well).

 

You pay $95 premium for the processor upgrade, but as stated above, I think this is to do with economies of scale. Apple might make 5 million 27" iMacs with the 3.2Ghz Core i5, but only 500,000 with the 3.4Ghz Core i7.

 

I'm not sure what the actual price difference would be with the mobile graphics chips, but I imagine it would be similar to the processor.

 

The way I see it is that you compromise on absolute value for warranty, to a certain extent reliability (i.e. avoiding weird hardware conflicts), and convenience. It's not for everyone, but it works well for consumers and occasionally tech minded people with different priorities.

Edited by Akamatsu

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My guess is that 768GB of flash storage for $1000+ would be an SSD.

 

Now wait for someone to try and tell you how there is greater perceived value in buying these upgrades from apple...

Depends purely on the part, right?

Like RAM upgrades, you can simply install one yourself.

 

And like every mac vs "PC" price comparison ever. When you put it together yourself, shoulder support yourself, and have to deal with RMAs yourself it's cheaper.

 

Would I do that for myself to buy a more powerful machine? Heck yes.

Would I recommend doing that for my grandpa, mother, sister in law? Hell no.

 

What proportion of PC users are like me? Well, probably

Most PC users don't have frankenboxes from MSY.

They have dells, lenovos, hps, and apples.

 

And the reason isn't because they are morons (though they may, independently be morons).

It's because they get value for themselves from those offers.

 

Yeah, Apple are usually very poor value when it comes to options. I think it's because they rely heavily on the economies of scale, so the cost in disrupting and reorganising regular production lines is reflected in the price of the custom options. It's worth noting that Dell, HP, Acer etc. all do the same thing.

 

For the 27", the ram is user upgradable. For members of Atomic, there's simply no reason to buy more ram through Apple. For the regular consumer, you'd have to be doing professional work to justify wanting more than 8GB.

 

768GB SSD's are for people with too much money. The fact that the Samsung drive Apple use isn't available through regular retailers should be enough to indicate the target audience. Replacing it with three 256GB drives might be cost effective, but it also increases the chance of failure three-fold if you plan to RAID-0 them together (note that Apple must be using a single drive, as the option is available for their notebooks as well).

 

You pay $95 premium for the processor upgrade, but as stated above, I think this is to do with economies of scale. Apple might make 5 million 27" iMacs with the 3.2Ghz Core i5, but only 500,000 with the 3.4Ghz Core i7.

 

I'm not sure what the actual price difference would be with the mobile graphics chips, but I imagine it would be similar to the processor.

 

The way I see it is that you compromise on absolute value for warranty, to a certain extent reliability (i.e. avoiding weird hardware conflicts), and convenience. It's not for everyone, but it works well for consumers and occasionally tech minded people with different priorities.

+1

 

When you change a single option, it goes from an "off the shelf" iMac, to what Apple refers to as a "CTD" (basically custom config) mac. CTD macs might be in stock, if it's basic spec + a processor or RAM bump. But often they are simply made to order, and the increase in options cost is probably an economic control to reduce the proportion of CTDs. What that means is that the cost may be representative of the costs to Apple themselves. Same for any boxed/bundled product.

 

As for the SSD. You can install one yourself if you want to save some cash. Mind you if you buy an equivalent value SSD (most likely a high quality SLC) it may not save you that much.

 

For many users, the engineering and form factor has a value in itself. For some users, a huge value!

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I've never thought of it that way, I had always just assumed they opened a box, someone spent 2 minutes doing the upgrade, they made a massive profit on the parts, then it got shipped out... With the increasing difficulty of getting into an apple product these days, it would make sense to assume the upgraded models are produced at the factory with all the rest..

 

I agree with the above in that I have no hesitation recommending dell/apple to people who ask what to buy and I know they aren't technical types. I am over the stage of wanting to help family and friends with their PC issues, these days it's more of a pain in the ass, but I still do it when they are stuck..

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