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amckern

How much data could you fit on an LP

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DVD/CD and Vinyl for storing data are not really comparable. Vinyl is an analog medium, you could possibly record the data similar to what was done on tapes but the extra noise would require more error correction which reduces the space for storing data. Doable but not really practical.

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Interesting idea but entirely erelephant (yes i know i spelt it like that)

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Cool - looks like a LP has no pits & lands - so it would not be possible to use it in the same manner as you would a CD

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A couple of decades ago, before the CD was introduced to market, there was a LP form factor disc called a video disc. It had almost the same thickness and size IIRC. The only difference between the 2 was the medium. Technically speaking, there isnt anything stopping people from making something of the LP form factor size to store data. The limiting factor here is the player size which for the past 25 years has been CD sized. That goes for DVD and BD technologies. So I guess the question is, do they or why dont they make things of that size anymore??

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records/vinyl can't carry very much data - probably around the capacity of a CD counting both sides

it has to be audio

too much 'data' and the quality goes down

why don't they make vinyl anymore?

er, they do

;)

just that CD's, etc are easier, more durable, and compact.

aesthetically, I far prefer vinyl, but, I've converted all my vinyl to CD (years ago)

the slight losses/gains made by CD are minimal, vinyl just can't compete imho

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Vinyl has another issue - everyone you read(play) your data, the way the diamond head on the LP player works it could actually change what was recorded since the LP degrades everytime you play it.

Edited by Jeruselem

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Sounds like a good way for ASIO / CIA to send read once files?

 

Whats the strange noise i hear from next door - oh don't worry, Boris is just playing his new record from his handler.

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Jerusalem - there are LP players that use a laser instead of a stylus making direct physical contact.

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Jerusalem - there are LP players that use a laser instead of a stylus making direct physical contact.

Beaten again by the wily bearded one!

 

Sound is analogue, and is most accurately stored as such. While higher bit samples may improve the apparent quality of digital representation of sound, it is always an approximation. It's taken me years to accept this.

 

As for the op, too many possible variables. What if we take an LP sized disc and stored the data in BR density, or the remarkable 100GB+/square inch we're now getting on HDDs?

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or the remarkable 100GB+/square inch we're now getting on HDDs?

I suspect 100GB/si would not be possible, as vinyl is a type of plastic, and has no ability to store magnatic data

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Thanks I have one of the old style LP players at home. Yes, it's broken as we need a new diamond head.

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or the remarkable 100GB+/square inch we're now getting on HDDs?

I suspect 100GB/si would not be possible, as vinyl is a type of plastic, and has no ability to store magnatic data

 

Unless you dope the vinyl. Another treatment of the substrate is required for the use of BR density optical storage. As for LPs not having pits and lands, they could, it's just a matter of changing the way you encode the data. With lasers, there are several ways you could read the data, binary dots is just one.

 

Jerusalem - save your vinyl! Consider one of these

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or the remarkable 100GB+/square inch we're now getting on HDDs?

I suspect 100GB/si would not be possible, as vinyl is a type of plastic, and has no ability to store magnatic data

 

Unless you dope the vinyl. Another treatment of the substrate is required for the use of BR density optical storage. As for LPs not having pits and lands, they could, it's just a matter of changing the way you encode the data. With lasers, there are several ways you could read the data, binary dots is just one.

 

Jerusalem - save your vinyl! Consider one of these

 

No, I don't fancy listening to James Last again ...

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or the remarkable 100GB+/square inch we're now getting on HDDs?

I suspect 100GB/si would not be possible, as vinyl is a type of plastic, and has no ability to store magnatic data

 

Unless you dope the vinyl. Another treatment of the substrate is required for the use of BR density optical storage. As for LPs not having pits and lands, they could, it's just a matter of changing the way you encode the data. With lasers, there are several ways you could read the data, binary dots is just one.

 

Jerusalem - save your vinyl! Consider one of these

 

No, I don't fancy listening to James Last again ...

 

I remember thinking 2 things when I was younger about James Last.

 

1) Why was James last? and...

2) What we he last in?

 

Never came up with an answer....

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Jerusalem - there are LP players that use a laser instead of a stylus making direct physical contact.

Sound is analogue, and is most accurately stored as such. While higher bit samples may improve the apparent quality of digital representation of sound, it is always an approximation. It's taken me years to accept this.

 

I'm sorry but your statement is not true. All analog mediums come with losses and colour the sound, this is often desired in a recording and mixing environment running a recording through tape for example to get a specific sound. The idea that digital audio is an approximation of the original signal is a misunderstanding of sampling theorem. In short digital formats can easily handle the entire dynamic and frequency ranges that your ears can hear, your speakers can produce and microphones can record.

 

See this great post on Xiph.org (developers of FLAC and Vorbis encoders) for a really great overview of sampling theory and digital audio: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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I found an interesting image on wikipedia's DVD page - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=....svg&page=1

 

It got me thinking - if you could press a vinal LP - how much data could you store on it?

 

They are double sided 22 min for playback

This was actually done back in the day when cassette tapes were a popular home computer storage option. The idea was you dubbed the LP to tape. The branding was "floppy ROM".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_standard

(and scroll down to Floppy ROM)

'

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I have watched a few videos where they have actually cut a groove into a CD for playing back on a record player!

 

Not ideal, but might be a good project for someone.

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This thread is full of derp, but with a sprinkling of good information.

 

It's perfectly feasible to store data on a vinyl record, the same way data is stored on audio cassette: by first converting it to audio. You choose an encoding scheme, run the data through a DAC to write it to the medium, and play it back through an ADC to retrieve it.

 

Here is a program stored as audio: https://soundcloud.com/retroswim/mm48k No reason this couldnt be on an LP instead of a tape.

 

Is it practical or economic? No, of course not. Would it be a cool proof-of-concept for somebody with a buttload of time and record-mastering equipment? Sure would!

Edited by SquallStrife

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This thread is full of derp, but with a sprinkling of good information.

 

It's perfectly feasible to store data on a vinyl record, the same way data is stored on audio cassette: by first converting it to audio. You choose an encoding scheme, run the data through a DAC to write it to the medium, and play it back through an ADC to retrieve it.

 

Here is a program stored as audio: https://soundcloud.com/retroswim/mm48k No reason this couldnt be on an LP instead of a tape.

 

Is it practical or economic? No, of course not. Would it be a cool proof-of-concept for somebody with a buttload of time and record-mastering equipment? Sure would!

I remember a few years ago, people were opening EXE files in a WAV player to see what the "sound" like.

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Vinyl has another issue - everyone you read(play) your data, the way the diamond head on the LP player works it could actually change what was recorded since the LP degrades everytime you play it.

Not strictly true. Better quality cartridges, have better styli, using micro ridge or fine line shapes. These are far more closer to the cutting lathes used to make the mothers from the original analogue recording tape, and tend to do very little damage to the groove - as long as the cartridge is properly aligned of course (a Black art of its own making I might add).

 

For those questioning LPs - the very best analogue rigs will kick digital in the nuts imho. I have a medium analogue setup - Clearaudio Champion Level II, Rega RB300 (will get updated to either a Kuzma Stogi reference or SME IV or V down the track when funds permit), and a Lyra Clavis Moving Coil cartridge. Phono stage is now a ASR Basis exclusive (very high end!). My analogue front end costs around 14k ;-)

 

As for storing data, of course LPs can store data. How do you think that music got on the vinyl. Is it efficient as CD? No. Horses for courses imho.

 

Dave

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