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strifus

NBN in trouble?

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I am interested in IINET because they acquired the ISP's for this USER Base for the NBN Project. Now Liberal is going has its own plan could IINET be in Trouble.

Um no they didn't. NBN or no NBN the Iinet purchase of Internode made economic sense to them as it brings in more customers and probably more importantly gives them access to the Internode DSLAMs, many of which are not in the same exchanges as Iinets. It also gives them access to Internodes excellent Agile network.

With access to the Internode DSLAMs in exchanges that do not have Iinet DSLAMs they can now sell on-net ADSL plans rather than having stick with Telstra based Off-net plans. Where there is DSLAM duplication it means they now have many more ADSL ports for customers..

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Again consolidation has been happening since well before the NBN was even announced, it is not an NBN specific thing, although it is possible that the advent of an NBN may have increased this.

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Sigh, I wish they would just finish it as planned from the start. So much money has already been spent, cutting back now will just means so much of it is wasted.

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I am interested in IINET because they acquired the ISP's for this USER Base for the NBN Project. Now Liberal is going has its own plan could IINET be in Trouble.

Um no they didn't. NBN or no NBN the Iinet purchase of Internode made economic sense to them as it brings in more customers and probably more importantly gives them access to the Internode DSLAMs, many of which are not in the same exchanges as Iinets. It also gives them access to Internodes excellent Agile network.

With access to the Internode DSLAMs in exchanges that do not have Iinet DSLAMs they can now sell on-net ADSL plans rather than having stick with Telstra based Off-net plans. Where there is DSLAM duplication it means they now have many more ADSL ports for customers..

 

Partly so up too a point. Internode since its acquisition has virtually lost its famous customer support and many users are now leaving for Telstra. When the NBN was rolled out it claimed to be the fastest and smoothest network. But in the Whirlpool Internode forums it has shown that something is wrong ,reading complaints about NBN connection issue's keeping up speed and maintaining it. Customer support is so bad lots of users just have to accept it. I such i was in that situation and felt it.

 

The NBN is a white elephant and privileged for the rich and those in Labor selected area's. At Liberals plan is too pick up the pieces and make something from it ,they seem to have consulted many IT professionals in the process. If Labor had allowed the Chinese players in we could have seen a lot more NBN rollouts.

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Unfortunately codecreeper, that is quite wishful thinking. The NBN needs the initial capital from those that can afford it by selling the services to private companies. The government has set aside some money but that isn't going to keep the NBN Co. going. Customers is what brings the money to them through private companies. Despite what you think, the government under Liberals isn't going to help the NBN either. Most likely going to ask the private sector to completely fund and build it which defeats the purpose of what the NBN should be in the first place, a government owned network.

 

However, people aren't flocking to it because they are not thinking in the long term. People think in the short term and their needs now instead of thinking of what happens in two years time, three years or even ten years ahead. ATM, digital downloads will keep increasing in size, productivity in the home will increase because of inefficient transport/location restrictions in certain cities and with the advent of 'always connect' digital equipment, this means that no private sector will be willing to stump the money/manpower for it because of the sheer size and ongoing costs for it. Look at Telstra when it went from a government entity to a private business. Same could be said for Qantas from being a government to partial private entity. That's what Abbott and the Liberals want for the NBN Co. and it's definitely not a pretty picture.

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The NBN is a white elephant and privileged for the rich and those in Labor selected area's. At Liberals plan is too pick up the pieces and make something from it ,they seem to have consulted many IT professionals in the process. If Labor had allowed the Chinese players in we could have seen a lot more NBN rollouts.

This belief that "people are not flocking to it" Is a strange thing to say. In the areas where the NBN is up and running the copper infrastructure is being steadily decommissioned/removed, meaning you will have to move to the NBN sooner rather than later.

The NBN is not JUST about the net, but about replacing the aging and overloaded copper system, so phones and all other telecommunication will be over the NBN and the copper sold off and melted down, so people will have to move to the NBN.

 

I have been advised that when it comes on line here in Bundamba Optus will start shifting customers from its current cable strung from power poles to the NBN. And will in turn remove its cable from said power poles. Now we get to the sticking point, if big ears gets in we will have a ham strung NBN still being bottlenecked by the old copper lines, and we will have lost the opportunity to get rid of it once and for all, and move into the 21st century.

 

For any other government to then come along at a later date and finish the NBN the way its supposed to be done will cost twice as much if not more. We have the people in the field now, we have the plan, if we stick to it we will be doing it once, and doing it right. For me that would be enough reason to vote for "Attila the Hun" if he promised to finish the job the right way.

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The NBN is a white elephant and privileged for the rich and those in Labor selected area's. At Liberals plan is too pick up the pieces and make something from it ,they seem to have consulted many IT professionals in the process. If Labor had allowed the Chinese players in we could have seen a lot more NBN rollouts.

This belief that "people are not flocking to it" Is a strange thing to say. In the areas where the NBN is up and running the copper infrastructure is being steadily decommissioned/removed, meaning you will have to move to the NBN sooner rather than later.

The NBN is not JUST about the net, but about replacing the aging and overloaded copper system, so phones and all other telecommunication will be over the NBN and the copper sold off and melted down, so people will have to move to the NBN.

 

I have been advised that when it comes on line here in Bundamba Optus will start shifting customers from its current cable strung from power poles to the NBN. And will in turn remove its cable from said power poles. Now we get to the sticking point, if big ears gets in we will have a ham strung NBN still being bottlenecked by the old copper lines, and we will have lost the opportunity to get rid of it once and for all, and move into the 21st century.

 

For any other government to then come along at a later date and finish the NBN the way its supposed to be done will cost twice as much if not more. We have the people in the field now, we have the plan, if we stick to it we will be doing it once, and doing it right. For me that would be enough reason to vote for "Attila the Hun" if he promised to finish the job the right way.

 

If we do agree and finish it the way it was supposed one point sticks in my mind ,Where will this money come from? What Money that was put on the table is gone and NBN CO. have been asking for more funds. So either way we go down this path it will cost Billions of Dollars from Where? If they had of Structurally separated Telstra then things may been smoother. Anyone on ADSL know that we are going to pay heaps more for access either ,either by NBN or other methods.

 

Users who vote for the NBN to be finished will do nothing but keep that debt counter going through the roof. Australia is already about to lose its credit rating if it does return a surplus in the next year. I do think Liberals NBN plan should be given a chance it could give some breathing space to allow the NBN Fibre to proceed in other areas.

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The NBN is a white elephant and privileged for the rich and those in Labor selected area's. At Liberals plan is too pick up the pieces and make something from it ,they seem to have consulted many IT professionals in the process. If Labor had allowed the Chinese players in we could have seen a lot more NBN rollouts.

This belief that "people are not flocking to it" Is a strange thing to say. In the areas where the NBN is up and running the copper infrastructure is being steadily decommissioned/removed, meaning you will have to move to the NBN sooner rather than later.

The NBN is not JUST about the net, but about replacing the aging and overloaded copper system, so phones and all other telecommunication will be over the NBN and the copper sold off and melted down, so people will have to move to the NBN.

 

I have been advised that when it comes on line here in Bundamba Optus will start shifting customers from its current cable strung from power poles to the NBN. And will in turn remove its cable from said power poles. Now we get to the sticking point, if big ears gets in we will have a ham strung NBN still being bottlenecked by the old copper lines, and we will have lost the opportunity to get rid of it once and for all, and move into the 21st century.

 

For any other government to then come along at a later date and finish the NBN the way its supposed to be done will cost twice as much if not more. We have the people in the field now, we have the plan, if we stick to it we will be doing it once, and doing it right. For me that would be enough reason to vote for "Attila the Hun" if he promised to finish the job the right way.

 

If we do agree and finish it the way it was supposed one point sticks in my mind ,Where will this money come from? What Money that was put on the table is gone and NBN CO. have been asking for more funds. So either way we go down this path it will cost Billions of Dollars from Where? If they had of Structurally separated Telstra then things may been smoother. Anyone on ADSL know that we are going to pay heaps more for access either ,either by NBN or other methods.

 

Users who vote for the NBN to be finished will do nothing but keep that debt counter going through the roof. Australia is already about to lose its credit rating if it does return a surplus in the next year. I do think Liberals NBN plan should be given a chance it could give some breathing space to allow the NBN Fibre to proceed in other areas.

 

The longer we delay this inevitable project the more expensive it will be when we finally have to move on from early 20th century copper technology. This is a project we HAVE to do regardless of cost, and as I said we do it once and we do it right or we will have to pay not billions but perhaps trillions to do it right in the future.

 

If we as a nation want to compete in the 21st century, then this infrastructure in not only vital, but inevitable. This project is to important to the nation to let any political party stuff it up by hobbling it, and costing the people HUGE sums in the future to do it the way it is being done now. FTTH (fibre to the home) is the only way to do this right.

 

A case in point comes to mind that you may be to young to remember, but when I was a young fellow we had the old thunder box down the back yard. There was no sewerage, but the then mayor Clem Jones said we have to sewer Brisbane regardless of cost as the city is growing and if we don't it will only cost more in the future. He racked up a huge debit for the time (took a couple of generations to pay it off) but none would argue that it was money well spent even if it took decades to pay off. The NBN is even more important to this country, will it be a big debit ? You bet ! But to not do it right, now that the work has well and truly started, will be a disaster.

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If we do agree and finish it the way it was supposed one point sticks in my mind ,Where will this money come from? What Money that was put on the table is gone and NBN CO. have been asking for more funds. So either way we go down this path it will cost Billions of Dollars from Where? If they had of Structurally separated Telstra then things may been smoother. Anyone on ADSL know that we are going to pay heaps more for access either ,either by NBN or other methods.

 

Users who vote for the NBN to be finished will do nothing but keep that debt counter going through the roof. Australia is already about to lose its credit rating if it does return a surplus in the next year. I do think Liberals NBN plan should be given a chance it could give some breathing space to allow the NBN Fibre to proceed in other areas.

The money is coming from borrowing because Australia can borrow at very low interest rates due to us having such an excellent economy Is that clear enough for you? As far as affording it goes The NBN will eventually make money and pay back the borrowings, with interest something bigears plan will not and cannot do. So which is the better plan? One that borrows and earns an income paying back their loan or one that just chucks huge amounts of cash at private companies for very little if any improvement in services? I damn well know which one seems the better risk to me financially.

Also if FTTH is so bad then perhaps you had better ask Malcolm Turnbull why he is investing his own money in FTTH rollouts overseas? Is it the old cultural cringe crap where Australia can never be as a good as anywhere else technically?

It was revealed this week that Mr Turnbull owns shares in France Telecom, which plans to connect 60 per cent of French households to fibre by 2020.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/government...l#ixzz2RkOb0G7l

 

 

http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/media/med...leases/2012/143

If Australians want to know what Malcolm Turnbull really thinks about investing in fibre to the home, they need to follow his money, not his mouth.

 

“Alongside his investment in France Telecom, which plans to connect 15 million homes with fibre by 2020, Mr Turnbull has also bought bonds in Telefonica – Spain’s largest telecommunications company.

 

“These bonds are helping build a fibre to the home network in Spain’s major cities, including Madrid and Barcelona,” Senator Conroy said.

 

“Telefonica plan to bring 100 Mbps services to 1.3 million premises in Madrid, and to cover 50% of the population of Catalonia by 2013.

 

As for Internode "losing customers in droves", bullshit. A couple of posts on Whirlpool is not indicative of a general abandonment of an ISP. If that was the case based on Whirlpool posts Telstra, Dodo, TPG Optus and several other ISPs would be long dead..

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codecreeper, take everything you read on Whirlpool with a grain of salt. Take it with a huge bag of salt, in fact.

 

People only visit WP to vent, whinge, complain, and dickwave.

 

You will never see threads from people saying "I am content with the ISP I have been with for 5 years."

 

Also, much like Atomic, Whirlpool is full of nerds, and shouldn't be seen as indicative of the wider community.

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You will never see threads from people saying "I am content with the ISP I have been with for 5 years."

Well actually you can, but in Internode's case it is all kept to one thread

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-repli...815313&p=71

not eleventy billion separate threads like you get when bods have problems.

 

Oh and http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/45...home_isp_year_/

iiNet subsidiary Internode has taken out 'home ISP of the year' in the Roy Morgan Research Customer Satisfaction Awards for the second year running.

 

Internode topped the survey for nine months of last year. Fellow iiNet subsidiary Westnet and Internode's parent company took out the award for the other three months.

 

The Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman annual report issued in late October revealed a more than 26 per cent drop in complaints lodged with the TIO about Internode's parent company, iiNet, in the period July 2011 to June 2012, compared to the prior 12 month period

 

iiNet was crowned home phone provider of the year; Virgin Mobile topped the mobile phone provider category.

 

The awards are based on monthly surveys of 50,000 Australians by Roy Morgan Research.

 

iiNet revealed today a 122 per cent jump in profit, with the company's acquisition of Internode and TransACT in the ACT having helped boost its bottom line.

Not bad for an ISP that is "losing customers in droves and about to go under."

:P

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For the record i stated ;

 

Internode since its acquisition has virtually lost its famous customer support and many users are now leaving for Telstra

 

And Ray Morgan report and TIO report is nearly 9 months old and is outdated.

 

 

Whatever the outcome its going to be dire in either financing or building. We do not have skilled labor to deploy this network at a faster rate . SO regardless of which party needs to builds it has major hurdles to overcome.

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The NBN is a white elephant and privileged for the rich and those in Labor selected area's. At Liberals plan is too pick up the pieces and make something from it ,they seem to have consulted many IT professionals in the process. If Labor had allowed the Chinese players in we could have seen a lot more NBN rollouts.

This belief that "people are not flocking to it" Is a strange thing to say. In the areas where the NBN is up and running the copper infrastructure is being steadily decommissioned/removed, meaning you will have to move to the NBN sooner rather than later.

The NBN is not JUST about the net, but about replacing the aging and overloaded copper system, so phones and all other telecommunication will be over the NBN and the copper sold off and melted down, so people will have to move to the NBN.

 

I have been advised that when it comes on line here in Bundamba Optus will start shifting customers from its current cable strung from power poles to the NBN. And will in turn remove its cable from said power poles. Now we get to the sticking point, if big ears gets in we will have a ham strung NBN still being bottlenecked by the old copper lines, and we will have lost the opportunity to get rid of it once and for all, and move into the 21st century.

 

For any other government to then come along at a later date and finish the NBN the way its supposed to be done will cost twice as much if not more. We have the people in the field now, we have the plan, if we stick to it we will be doing it once, and doing it right. For me that would be enough reason to vote for "Attila the Hun" if he promised to finish the job the right way.

 

Don't Optus still use HFC for subscription TV? Because Pay TV services aren't yet required to be moved to the NBN.

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Don't Optus still use HFC for subscription TV? Because Pay TV services aren't yet required to be moved to the NBN.

I doubt pay tv will ever be "required" on the NBN, but eventually we should see similar services delivered over the fibre. Already some RSPs are offering this, in the form of Fetch tv or the like.

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I haven't read this entire thread but one figure I don't recall seeing, probably because it hasn't been calculated is the relative cost of deploying fibre to the home to the ongoing cost of maintaining or even expanding to new properties the copper network.

 

Nationwide the CAN is a mess, despite what some think, it's paid for itself, many times over as a national asset but to keep sinking money into it is good money wasted.

 

There is no doubt there are teething problems with the roll-out, there always are, it's taken me nearly two months to get connected in a new office that is NBN only, but a lot of that has been my company not understanding how different the service is at the commercial level.

 

As for the iinet group losing customers what a load of rubbish, the founders of iinet and Internode were true visionaries of the internet in Australia, have built pretty much the best ISPs in the country and their merger is nothing but good for the industry. They also are and always have been very good friends.

 

Cheers

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The NBN is a white elephant and privileged for the rich and those in Labor selected area's. At Liberals plan is too pick up the pieces and make something from it ,they seem to have consulted many IT professionals in the process. If Labor had allowed the Chinese players in we could have seen a lot more NBN rollouts.

This belief that "people are not flocking to it" Is a strange thing to say. In the areas where the NBN is up and running the copper infrastructure is being steadily decommissioned/removed, meaning you will have to move to the NBN sooner rather than later.

The NBN is not JUST about the net, but about replacing the aging and overloaded copper system, so phones and all other telecommunication will be over the NBN and the copper sold off and melted down, so people will have to move to the NBN.

 

I have been advised that when it comes on line here in Bundamba Optus will start shifting customers from its current cable strung from power poles to the NBN. And will in turn remove its cable from said power poles. Now we get to the sticking point, if big ears gets in we will have a ham strung NBN still being bottlenecked by the old copper lines, and we will have lost the opportunity to get rid of it once and for all, and move into the 21st century.

 

For any other government to then come along at a later date and finish the NBN the way its supposed to be done will cost twice as much if not more. We have the people in the field now, we have the plan, if we stick to it we will be doing it once, and doing it right. For me that would be enough reason to vote for "Attila the Hun" if he promised to finish the job the right way.

 

Don't Optus still use HFC for subscription TV? Because Pay TV services aren't yet required to be moved to the NBN.

 

According to what optus advised me is that their cable will be removed and all optus services will be shifted to the NBN, so I assume the pay tv would be included in that transfer. The idea behind it of course is that Optus will save millions by not having to maintain their existing cable.

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I haven't read this entire thread but one figure I don't recall seeing, probably because it hasn't been calculated is the relative cost of deploying fibre to the home to the ongoing cost of maintaining or even expanding to new properties the copper network.

 

Nationwide the CAN is a mess, despite what some think, it's paid for itself, many times over as a national asset but to keep sinking money into it is good money wasted.

 

 

 

Cheers

Best guesses (Telstra keeps the numbers close to their chest apparently) is around 800 million to 1 Billion per year on copper maintenance alone, and that is basically minimum fault repair only when needed.

 

I also see the Coalition is now using BT in the UK as an FTTN example, having dropped NZ as a shining light since they dumped their FTTN rollout as not being able to provide the speeds needed and switched to FTTP.

Well the BT Fibre to the kerb (FTTN with a different name) is really delivering the goods. Not.

Two quick examples

http://www.kitguru.net/mobile/faith/bt-inf...rld-speed-test/

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/...-corrosion.html

 

And the biggest one for me

http://delimiter.com.au/2012/04/30/fttn-a-...says-ex-bt-cto/

One of the UK’s foremost telecommunications experts, a former chief technology officer of British telco BT, has publicly stated that fibre to the node-style broadband is “one of the biggest mistakes humanity has made”, imposing huge bandwidth and unreliability problems on those who implement it, as the Coalition may do in Australia.

But that really sums up the current Coalition, a mistake waiting to happen.

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AFAIK, The NBNodework will still give NBNCo an RoI.

 

Not to mention, Cochrane is against GPON.

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The main reason I started this thread some months ago was because I have notice a slow down in the speeds I have been getting since I moved in to my place in early 2008. Back then (we are on ADSL2+ btw), I was getting close to 9Mbps/1.5Mbps (cant remember the upload speed off the top of my head). Currently, we are averaging 3.5Mbps/0.5Mbps at any given time and I am still paying the same price, about 100AUD/month, with Telstra (every so often) giving us the option to upgrade our quota to what it is now for the same price. This is what eeks at me the most. I am paying the same money as another person down the street, for example, and because he is closer, he gets better speeds. All over Telstra's website, at least back when we were connecting our internet up, it said "up to 20000Kbps/(cant remember the number here). Now the website doesn't even say anything about upload speeds at all and goes on to say that although the max speeds achievable on ADSL2+ is 20Mbps most of us will get 10Mbps and the rest less than that.

 

Although Leonid has told me otherwise, what assurances do I have that I will be getting 25Mbps as stated in the Coalition's policies.

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Join the club strifus, I also pay the same and am currently getting 2.7/832.

 

Leonid is wrong, wrong, wrong. The Coalition cannot guarantee 25Mbit no matter what they claim as the speed is dependant on the copper length and quality, and despite Leonid repeatedly claiming the copper overall is on good condition he actually has no idea. If it was in such good nick then sites like Whirlpool would not be full of complaints about phone and ADSL problems and Telstra would not be spending approx one billiona year on repairs.

This is an issue NBNCo have come up against with just duct access, having to wait for Telstra to re-mediate the ducts before they can even run the fibre through it. If the ducts are broken and clogged then the enclosed copper must be in pretty crap condition too.

 

All the Coalition can do is say you will get 25Mbit according to the Telstra records, which are based around line length and thickness and do not use any actual real world tests. If you get less than 25Mbit then stiff shit.

We also have the issue that their plan does nothing for upload speeds, something that is becoming more and more of an issue as people move to cloud services, online backup and file sharing. I am even getting quite "n00bish" users complaining about how long it takes to upload the family pics or videos to online sites for the scattered family to see.

That has been one big noticeable difference with the fibre connections I have helped people set up. The most common comment is how fast they users can send emails with attachments or upload pics and vids to the likes of Photobucket etc.

 

New Zealand discovered how good FTTN was and have since canned that rollout and moved to an FTTH rollout.

British Telecom has also discovered this

http://delimiter.com.au/2013/03/11/corrosi...-bt-fttn-speed/

http://delimiter.com.au/2012/04/30/fttn-a-...says-ex-bt-cto/

 

The Coalitions plan also does not appear to include the much higher cost of running all these powered nodes that will be needed. A cost that will have to be born by the consumer in access charges and their best guess time to build does not seem to include the time needed to renegotiate with Telstra to buy the existing copper, changes to the regulatory environment nor the time to go through the whole redesign and equipment sourcing process.

 

If the Coalition is thinking of using VDSL or similar to get higher speeds then the nodes will have to be closer together to give people those speeds (200 metres max line length). If VDSL2 then the nodes have to be closer again, or you need to bond 2 or more copper pairs and in either case the copper had better be in perfect condition.

In all cases FTTN will only provide up to speeds, so unless you are lucky enough to be close to a node on good copper you still won't get the speed you pay for. Lovely eh?

Lastly FTTN/copper based comms is old tech and has just about run out of development, whereas fibre currently has no foreseeable speed limit to it. Heck NBNCo have just announced that gigabit will be available soon

http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/media/new...bit-nation.html All it requires for this to happen is a firmware upgrade or new ONT (depending on model of ONT currently fitted) and of course for the RSP to provide sufficient backhaul. At the consumer end you will need an almighty powerful router though, no idea on the price of them.

According to the report-to-parliamentary-joint-committee April 2013

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=...dGI&cad=rja

 

take up rates are currently running at

12/1 39%

25/5 24%

25/10 1% (only offered by a couple of RSPs)

50/20 5%

100/40 31%

So it seems that at nearly 1/3 of those currently using FTTH want the fastest speeds currently available.

Takeup rates are also mostly damn good with some areas being over 50% already. So again it seems people want it.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/340663,nbn-c...he-numbers.aspx

 

The Coalition and people like Leonid also calim that people don't even need the speeds that NBNCo currently provide. Well apparently consumers disagree

I doubt you where getting 1.5mbps up as ADSL2+ maxes out at 1Mbps, unless you where using annex M which provides for higher up speeds at the expense of download speeds. Annex M is only available from select ISPs and only on their own DSLAMs, and you have to request the change.

Edited by aliali

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Seems to me, living in the country, FTTN is going to be a gigantic waste of time, and money.

 

Only have a Telstra node serving the area, and we have to pay insane prices for that anyway.. My only hope is really getting NBN, which should reduce costs.

 

I also highly doubt we'd have multiple nodes here, probably only one in the center of town, at the outskirts of town cannot get ADSL, at ALL at the moment (has been this way for many years).

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Unless you've seen something to say your town is getting fibre under the current NBN, then either NBN is likely to deal with that town - if only the outskirts - with wireless.

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Unless you've seen something to say your town is getting fibre under the current NBN, then either NBN is likely to deal with that town - if only the outskirts - with wireless.

Well in my case it is wireless but then I am 10Km outside the fibre coverage.

:P

Me I am wishing they would hurry up and build the wireless tower for my area as then I can go on a 25/5 NBN wireless plan and get that speed instead of paying for an ADSL 2+ plan and only getting 2.7Mbit, where other people paying the same as me can get 18 or 20Mbit.

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:)

 

I really do fail to understand anyone who wants to hang on to copper.

 

Fibre simply runs rings around it in every regard except end equipment cost and that is still coming down.

 

Not going to repeat what I posted in the thread where Leo was still enthused about how wonderful the CAN is, but I would not mind some of what he was smoking at the time :)

 

Cheers

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