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NBN in trouble?

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Problem is Leo is briliant at Data Centres, but clueless when the data leaves the centre. It's a simple as that. I've worked with degraded copper. I've done it on a national level of trying to link all the Customs Airports together. It got canned because it was going to be too expensive for 'no guarantees'.

 

The quality of the line out there to metropolitan areas is quite frankly 'woeful'.

 

And Liberal don't want to hear it. They seem to insist that 'copper is copper is copper'. If the copper is in the ground then it's got to be good.

 

Truly, the copper is doomed to fail. Liberal have shot themselves in the foot with their policy and it WILL cost more. Simple fact.

 

But anyways. Copper is failing. We'll get our NBN. I'd just prefer it to be done the cheaper way (Labor's proposal). All up front, and then reap the economic benefit.

 

(Liberal are always incredibly stupid when it comes to 'preventative maintenance'. Personal opinion. But I noted that whenever Liberal were in power, amount of spending on routine maintenance falls away to next to nothing, and breakfix goes through the roof. Then they have no idea why they are spending more... This is from my experience as both a contractor and govt employee).

 

What Liberal do in other areas is anyones guess. But their entire policy for NBN is doomed to cost more and SOONER.

 

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From my point of view that NBN is a great project and we would all love it in our homes or wherever.

 

But where is this Money going to come from? We have already spent $49 Billion to get this far and only a fraction has been rolled out compared to what should have been rolled out.

 

Copper is a good backup system and needs be kept operational until the NBN hits that suburb. My preference is copper over Wireless anyday.

 

NBN is a pain in the butt economically ,at the same time we need hospitals and other infrastructure.

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First thing first. To aliali, thanks for pointing out the mistake I made in quoting speeds, as I pointed out, I couldn't remember the number off the top of my head.

 

Secondly, I would like the point out there is a large proportion of the electorate out there who don't really know about the NBN to a bar of soap. You ask these people what they think about the NBN and most will answer "why would we need more internet speed for?" or "our internet is fine, we don't need it" and so on. The fact of the matter is that most Australians, the baby boomers in particular, have no idea about what constitutes a communications system. However, these are the same demographic that complain that the hospital lists are too long and that government services/infrastructure is woeful. This is where I have a question for you all. How would you guys like it if Australia has a hospital system similar to what Americas has currently, oh, in say about 30 odd years time or so? Because that's the way things are going now. If you are a Queenslander, you should be very worried. All I can say to you now is that over 50% of all services provided to you by hospitals in Queensland Health will be privatised. Departments such as Pharmaceuticals, Radiation Oncology, Radiology (x-rays, MRIs, CTs and the like), and rehabilitation are just some of what either on the way or being considered for privatisation. Essentially, unless you are dead or dying from either and accident or something else that is causing you to have ill health, then the chances of you getting on the list within 12 months is slim. Basically, I agree with codecreeper here on this. We need more hospitals and other infrastructure. We haven't had, in Brisbane at least, any new infrastructure that takes patients that is for decades. Our population is growing year after year and nothing is being done to address this and the current government isn't doing anything about this either. Although they have proudly paraded that they have increased the budget of QH by 800million this budget is rather more a slight of hand in that they have cut preventative programs and shoved all the work they were budgeted for into the current hospital system. So, people in the know already see the changes happening to Queensland's healthcare system in becoming more privatised.

 

The reason I brought this up was that we haven't had any leaders with true vision around since, well since Bob Hawke and Paul Keating, to some extent John Howard. Now I know they made their mistakes during their tenures as our leaders but at least they had some vision of where THEY wanted Australia to be in their time as prime minister. These guys brought in reforms and changes that made Australia better and in terms of this decade, the NBN is one of those things that we as an electorate have to have vision to see as something that will take us forward into the latter half of this century. Forget about the Gillards and the Abbots for the moment and ask yourself, "what is it that you want". As far as the NBN is concerned, its good for our future. Sure it will cost us a sum now but it will eventually bring back a modest return. We all see where our world is taking us. Consider that only 10 year ago, there was a computer in only 30% of homes to what it is currently at approximately 85% depending on where you live (Canberra has the highest computer access at home at 90%).

 

This is where I take you back to the electorate issue I was talking about. Most are either talking about Health or other governmental related infrastructure. Most of us know that, at least for this decade, we are not going to get what we want in that sector. For the NBN, most Australian probably believe that their tax dollars do not go to pay for this huge project during this time of economic uncertainty simply because that's what they are doing, not spending either. This just shows typical conservative thinking that we Australians are known for. We blame our politicians for not having the foresight to see these things but then we crucify them even if they did. It doesn't matter what I want from the NBN, the decision is out of my hands. We will know, in the next few months whether the people of Australia have the VISION to see what's in front of them and taking us into the future.

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From my point of view that NBN is a great project and we would all love it in our homes or wherever.

 

But where is this Money going to come from? We have already spent $49 Billion to get this far and only a fraction has been rolled out compared to what should have been rolled out.

 

Copper is a good backup system and needs be kept operational until the NBN hits that suburb. My preference is copper over Wireless anyday.

 

NBN is a pain in the butt economically ,at the same time we need hospitals and other infrastructure.

It is coming from borrowings. That is the Government borrows money at extremely low interest rates to "kick start" the NBN, once subscriber numbers increase then some of the money can come from the income NBNCo is earning from those subscribers (indirectly through the RSPs of course).

Some will also come from private loans organised by NBNCo itself, which again should be at very low interest rates given NBNCo is a GBE.

 

I will refer you to this excellent page for some real info.

http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-are-we-paying-for-it/

While it's a private individuals site he has done his research which is a damn sight more the NBN detractors and the Coalition have done.

 

We have not already spent $49 billion on it, that is more Liberal bullshit and propaganda with no basis in reality. Total cost should be around 38 billion, that's total cost.

In the end the NBN should actually be making money of around 7% ROI, that's low for a private enterprise, but quite acceptable for a GBE which has only one shareholder, the Government.

Conversely the Coalitions plan has the very real possibility of being a continuing burden on the taxpayer as the maintenance and running costs of it will be so much higher than fibre.

 

Secondly, I would like the point out there is a large proportion of the electorate out there who don't really know about the NBN to a bar of soap.

 

Etc etc.

Yes unfortunately a lot of people just don't "get it", yet in my nearest town where fibre has been up and running for a little while the general comments seem to be how fantastic it is. This includes the usual "nerds" but also retirees who can barely use a computer and everything in between.

This gets even better with the couple of people I have helped set up their smart tvs and BD players to connect to their router. They are stoked at being able to watch various things on the big screen and get no wait online content for the BD movies, etc etc.

So unfortunately those who "get it" seem to be the ones who have it, and (knowing the people personally) will probably vote Coalition because of that. Ignoring that the rest of the country is still suffering on rotting copper.

 

 

 

As far as hospitals etc goes cancelling the NBN will not make an iota of difference there as the funding is totally off budget, that is cancelling it will not all of a sudden free up 38 billion to go to hospitals, but still some people insist on bringing up this furphy. In fact the NBN has the chance to ease some of the hospital congestion with remote real time in home monitoring and the like.

 

Really do agree with you about the lack of vision in politics and the general population these days. It's bloody sad really, and I really really don't get this obsession with selling everything off either.

 

 

/edit

More on consumer knowledge, or lack there of.

 

Seen the odd post on Whirlpool complaining or about NBN issues of various sorts when it turns out the person is on an Opticomm or similar fibre network. So even those with enough knowledge to know about Whirlpool and know where to post are getting confused on this. Don't know what you can do about that as to them it seems fibre is fibre and it is all NBN.

Edited by aliali

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As far as hospitals etc goes cancelling the NBN will not make an iota of difference there as the funding is totally off budget, that is cancelling it will not all of a sudden free up 38 billion to go to hospitals, but still some people insist on bringing up this furphy. In fact the NBN has the chance to ease some of the hospital congestion with remote real time in home monitoring and the like.

That is the first statement I have heard from an Atomican that makes sensee. I have been in the this community now for a fair few years. In most cases, when politics or the economy are discussed, the vast majority always say we shouldn't spend on this or that in deference to putting into the health and dental system (to bring down waiting list times) etc. People who work in the system will be the first to tell you that not matter how much you pour into health, itll swallow it up whole in one shot. Most of us in healthcare believe that a collaboration with private healthcare is the key to delivering services efficiently. However, this remains a very politically charged subject as most people would rather go to public healthcare for their elective surgery which ends up pushing waiting list times.

 

Really do agree with you about the lack of vision in politics and the general population these days. It's bloody sad really, and I really really don't get this obsession with selling everything off either.

Oh, and btw, I saw a flyer or something on the Courier Mail newspaper where the Coalition was saying how much their plan was going to cost. It quoted the ALP's plan as eventually costing 94billion. Now I don't know about you aliali but this is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. It is this kind of unadulterated propaganda that confuses the shit out of everyone. I mean, seriously, do we want a Coalition like that, one that has no morals about the disinformation it disseminates with which it isn't held accountable for? If it was the only time it has done something like that, it would be ok but the LNP has been doing it for years now and somehow gets away with it under the premise that its doing its job as the Opposition.

 

One thing I do know for sure is this. Economically, at least, all bets and rules are off. We have no idea of what will happen in the near to long term future. Some say recession and others say no change, while others say even worse. I for one, am planning on the future. What will Australians do? That remains to be seen.

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What we are hearing and seeing in News articles is pure speculation their is no solid evidence to which way this NBN project will be heading. OK ,for some reason we all hate the coalition's plan ,why? Because it sounds like a plan and its not what we want ,we all want Fibre that is the bottom line. We all sound like Spoil t brats who do not care about the consequences of getting it.

 

Ok we all so see a private report on how this project will be financed ,but if this is private money who pays and who gets ownership of the NBN at the end of rollout. We just cannot say that this private finance scheme is going to walk away at the end of the day and say 'ITS YOURS" ,so what deal was done here. In reality something has been done.

 

I am looking at the future here as i am 52 years old ,our hospitals are in shit shape. But it seems the NBN will keep me in a GP's office and stream all my data to a hospital via the NBN and such i will be ok. Meantime it comes to a point that i will need that hospital ,hang on their is no beds ,why because i am a public patient i can stay at home. Which is where?

 

Being on a DSP i need residence one day after i move from my current place. Where will i go Public Housing ? That is FULL and a waiting list of 15 years ,why? Because every tom,dick and harry is coming here by boat and they need housing "FIRST" ,stuff the tax payers. So is the gutter in the streets my next place of residence ,it seems that way because the NBN is taking priority here. And the youth of today cannot see past their own nose length. because they want Labor in Power so they can surf the Internet ,and download Movies.

 

So when September the 14th comes are you going to vote for the NBN or the Future? Because i can see a path very much like Cyprus here where the Labor Government will start looking at Banks Next for Loans. That means all YOUR saving will be gone one day just to pay for the NBN.

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People who work in the system will be the first to tell you that not matter how much you pour into health, itll swallow it up whole in one shot.

Ye health is one of those areas that really is a bottomless pit, money wise. Even if we had the budget of the USA (in dollar terms) I doubt that would still be enough given how people tend to get sick and injure themselves.

 

 

Oh, and btw, I saw a flyer or something on the Courier Mail newspaper where the Coalition was saying how much their plan was going to cost. It quoted the ALP's plan as eventually costing 94billion. Now I don't know about you aliali but this is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. It is this kind of unadulterated propaganda that confuses the shit out of everyone.

Haven't fully read in to this but apparently the Coalition came up with that number using the absolute worst case assumptions for everything. That is a "perfect storm" of unlikely and improbable events. Using the same criteria I would bet their proposal should be somewhere north of 70 billion to do, but of course they will deny that as all those bad things could never happen to them.

 

I mean, seriously, do we want a Coalition like that, one that has no morals about the disinformation it disseminates with which it isn't held accountable for? If it was the only time it has done something like that, it would be ok but the LNP has been doing it for years now and somehow gets away with it under the premise that its doing its job as the Opposition.

 

One thing I do know for sure is this. Economically, at least, all bets and rules are off. We have no idea of what will happen in the near to long term future. Some say recession and others say no change, while others say even worse. I for one, am planning on the future. What will Australians do? That remains to be seen.

I know I damn well don't want that.

How do they get away with it? Simple Murdoch. He is a Liberal party fanboi, or more to the point he sees the Liberals as being the best chance for him to gain even more power and control of Australia.

This means all his newspapers (mostly) uncritically accept what spouts from rabid Abbott and co and prints it, but harangues the ALP over everything from policy announcements to the PMs dress sense.

 

On the whole Julia thing, you know why the press is so much against her and how she rolled KR? It's because it was done quickly and cleanly (for a political leadership change) and the press did not get their months and months of speculation about who is destabilising the PM, who is back stabbing, who is the likely replacement etc etc etc. That is they missed out on spouting and printing reams of speculation and innuendo about leadership challenges.

 

So much for a balanced and free press.

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What we are hearing and seeing in News articles is pure speculation their is no solid evidence to which way this NBN project will be heading. OK ,for some reason we all hate the coalition's plan ,why? Because it sounds like a plan and its not what we want ,we all want Fibre that is the bottom line. We all sound like Spoil t brats who do not care about the consequences of getting it.

No we hate it because it is a big spend for marginal or no gain. That is it is fucking useless.

Ok we all so see a private report on how this project will be financed ,but if this is private money who pays and who gets ownership of the NBN at the end of rollout. We just cannot say that this private finance scheme is going to walk away at the end of the day and say 'ITS YOURS" ,so what deal was done here. In reality something has been done.

It's borrowings dude. Just like you borrow money to buy a house, car or any other large ticket item, NBN co is borrowing money to build the NBN. So they pay the money back to the lenders and the Australian Government owns it.

And because it is a GBE (in effect backed by the Government) the money is borrowed at exceedingly low interest rates, because if in the unlikely event of NBNCo not being able to repay the loans the Government will step in to do this. So massively low risk. Especially when you consider that approx 18 months after an area goes live with the Fibre the copper will be decommissioned. So you have three choices. Phone and internet via fibre, much more expensive internet via congested 3g/4g or no internet and phone at all. So take up rates will be high once the copper is cut.

 

I am looking at the future here as i am 52 years old ,our hospitals are in shit shape. But it seems the NBN will keep me in a GP's office and stream all my data to a hospital via the NBN and such i will be ok. Meantime it comes to a point that i will need that hospital ,hang on their is no beds ,why because i am a public patient i can stay at home. Which is where?

If home monitoring etc becomes viable (will need the associated support services too) then this should actually free up hospital beds as people can stay in the home longer, especially those that need regular monitoring.

me? I am 56 this year and have had a brush with cancer requiring Chemo and Radiotherapy, had a bout of Pneumonia, and now seem to have a permanently bad back amongst other crap.

If the NBN will allow me to stay at home longer than otherwise I am all for it.

 

Being on a DSP i need residence one day after i move from my current place. Where will i go Public Housing ? That is FULL and a waiting list of 15 years ,why? Because every tom,dick and harry is coming here by boat and they need housing "FIRST" ,stuff the tax payers. So is the gutter in the streets my next place of residence ,it seems that way because the NBN is taking priority here. And the youth of today cannot see past their own nose length. because they want Labor in Power so they can surf the Internet ,and download Movies.

 

So when September the 14th comes are you going to vote for the NBN or the Future? Because i can see a path very much like Cyprus here where the Labor Government will start looking at Banks Next for Loans. That means all YOUR saving will be gone one day just to pay for the NBN.

Public housing is the responsibility of the states not the Federal Government, so if there is a shortage in your state blame your state government.

Again just for you as you seem to have trouble understanding this

 

Stopping the NBN will not free up a single dollar for other purposes it is all funded off the budget. Understand?

 

As for Cyprus, oh please not that tripe again. Same for the refugee stuff.

Edited by aliali

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What we are hearing and seeing in News articles is pure speculation their is no solid evidence to which way this NBN project will be heading. OK ,for some reason we all hate the coalition's plan ,why? Because it sounds like a plan and its not what we want ,we all want Fibre that is the bottom line. We all sound like Spoil t brats who do not care about the consequences of getting it.

 

Ok we all so see a private report on how this project will be financed ,but if this is private money who pays and who gets ownership of the NBN at the end of rollout. We just cannot say that this private finance scheme is going to walk away at the end of the day and say 'ITS YOURS" ,so what deal was done here. In reality something has been done.

 

I am looking at the future here as i am 52 years old ,our hospitals are in shit shape. But it seems the NBN will keep me in a GP's office and stream all my data to a hospital via the NBN and such i will be ok. Meantime it comes to a point that i will need that hospital ,hang on their is no beds ,why because i am a public patient i can stay at home. Which is where?

 

Being on a DSP i need residence one day after i move from my current place. Where will i go Public Housing ? That is FULL and a waiting list of 15 years ,why? Because every tom,dick and harry is coming here by boat and they need housing "FIRST" ,stuff the tax payers. So is the gutter in the streets my next place of residence ,it seems that way because the NBN is taking priority here. And the youth of today cannot see past their own nose length. because they want Labor in Power so they can surf the Internet ,and download Movies.

 

So when September the 14th comes are you going to vote for the NBN or the Future? Because i can see a path very much like Cyprus here where the Labor Government will start looking at Banks Next for Loans. That means all YOUR saving will be gone one day just to pay for the NBN.

Codecreeper, I am no spring chicken either sir. I am 41 this year, just got married in 2012 and had a baby girl in November of 2012. If I were single, yes, I would agree that I would want the NBN purely out off selfish-ness. However, being a bit more mature with and with a young family, I have started to think in other ways.

 

Hospitals, yes, they are in shit shape and they are going to get worse with the current mob of state premiers in place, at least for the foreseeable future. If you are a Queenslander, if you have read the Costello Audit Recommendations then you know what is in store for you. Like I said in my previous post, there hasn't really been any increase in the amount of beds, in Brisbane at least, for the last 2 decades. Take the Princess Alexandra Hospital, for example, which had more beds in the building back then compared to the one we have presently. The PA currently gets patients from other hospitals from around QLD, and the same goes for the Mater and Royal Brisbane Hospitals. Of course, that's not to say that you will not get your surgery, if you are categorised as being in need for surgery, you will get it.

 

However, I am digressing. Codecreeper, this thread is about the NBN. I am not trying to be unsympathetic to your thoughts but we are merely talking about what is on the cards as far as the federal election is concerned. We know about the NBN and a few other issues. As far as health is concerned, the LNP is mum on the subject. I am worried about the future too as you haven't already noticed in my posts. I make a point to point out that I have no control over the future, even though I can cast my own vote and voice my own opinions. We all know that the there are just 2 ways this can go. Which way Australia goes depends on how many people have a biased to one side or the other. If you voted for the side that lost, for example, there isn't a whole lot you can do about it until the issue is brought up again, perhaps as an election issue. I know what I want, whether I get it or not is another thing altogether. I guess, probably the only thing you can do is be the "Greater Fool" and fight for that issue by bringing it up to public knowledge and your electorate and your MP just how bad things are. Bring back hospitals for a second, do you think I like working in a place were if you didn't take a pay cut (by working less hours) you were made redundant anyway? Of course I could go else where, like a different country for awhile till things settle down over here but then I wouldn't be much of an Australian now would I? If that's what it takes to keep our health system running, I am willing to do my part in saving it.

 

Before I end this post, I would like to say something that a patient said to me thinking I was his nurse. He basically said, "Those doctors shouldn't be allowed to take leave like that, we don't pay them for that"( in this case he was talking about a resident that had taken leave to see his wife and son). Now if that person where from a lower socio-economic background, I would chalk that up to an uneducated mindset. However, this person was sent to us from Cairns because he was involved in a car crash that injured his kidneys badly and therefore needed a transplant and by chance we had a kidney for him a few weeks later. Or another man who was blind drunk while knowing he didn't have enough money to get home by cab, proceeded to hail the next car he could find by walking right in front of one and got both his legs broken as well a broken pelvis. We deal with these kinds of cases everyday and they are most likely the reason why someone who was on the elective surgery list misses out because there is no bed for a hip replacement patient because this guy will take up that bed for weeks. There is more than meets the eye in most situations regarding the situations that you brought up codecreeper. I feel for your mate but the thing is tat you are as powerless as I am in controlling these things.

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Oh and I think I will add this to the mix.

http://www.fionanash.com.au/Media/MediaRel...-FRAUDBAND.aspx

and I shall highlight a couple of relevant sections

 

In spruiking their flawed Fibre-to-the-Node (FTTN) plan

“It’s widely understood in the telecommunications industry that FTTN will not deliver improved broadband speeds to rural and regional areas.

That is from 2007 from a National Party senator. You know part of the Coalition.

So after 6 years all of a sudden FTTN is the bees knees for a communications network?

 

Bloody dickheads.

Edited by aliali

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