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Master_Scythe

AMD still failing to please me

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So I crumbled to the 'numbers' (benchmarks) and got another AMD card. I promised myself I never would, and now I'm paying the price....

 

So far:

- My DX6\7 games still lag like a cunt with an AMD card. Honestly, its fucking 2013, like 3 years since I first reported the bug! Can it be THAT hard? (i mean it can, but I wouldn't have expected it to be)

 

-Unlike my old card, I get choppyness if I use Direct3D in game, DirectDraw on a secondary monitor, and Direct2D on a 3rd monitor at once.

This was NO problem with my old card (5570), and CCC is showing I'm only using 40% of my main card in game. If I don't use Direct2D its OK, but that limits my video to WindowsGDI output, which is blocky as fuck.

Please note, the 3D game monitor has a card to itself, with no crossfire. The other monitors run off their own secondary card; that hasn't changed from my old setup.

I have however noticed that my cards box is claiming "4 monitors from 1 card". Maybe I should try eliminating my secondary $30 AMD card that's running 3 of these monitors?

 

~ And to top it off they refuse to honor my free copy of Bioshock. :(

 

Anyone else have issues with older games? Whatever you have lying around that's using pre-DX9?

Also, anyone running a multi monitor setup, can you try playing a video using Dx2D on one while you load a full screen game on the other?

 

I hear some of the visualization apps can hook things like DirectX and hardware acceleration; maybe I should try Windows 98SE in a VM?

 

Anyone else with issues they've managed to fix?

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Unfortunately I don't use my rig to the same capacity as you, so the only real bugs I have come across is heaps more microstutter in crossfire games compared to my old SLI GTX480 setup.

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- My DX6\7 games still lag like a cunt with an AMD card. Honestly, its fucking 2013, like 3 years since I first reported the bug! Can it be THAT hard? (i mean it can, but I wouldn't have expected it to be)

I had similar issues with my GeForce GTX 275, so I don't think it's just an AMD issue. Nvidia and AMD don't really care about old DirectX versions unfortunately :-/

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I pretty much gave up on any apps that required less than DX9 years ago, they just don't want to play nice with modern hardware and windows 7 64bit.

I don't think AMD do ANY optimisations for pre DX9 now, they hardly even release drivers for cards more than a few years old (4000 series or older, didnt even get a windows 8 compatible driver).

 

I now just use my old build from a few years ago with an AMD 4200 X2 and an 8800GTX for my older games.

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I'm rocking with some older games (Total Annihilation if you want to know) and it's a pain in the ass. But I have to concede that support for older games aren't a priority for these guys. What's the point of buying the 7850 if you're going to just play Age of Empires from yoinks ago?

 

I'm a bit surprised about the refusal to get the code. If you want, I might be able to get a code or at least buy it for you.

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I'm rocking with some older games (Total Annihilation if you want to know) and it's a pain in the ass. But I have to concede that support for older games aren't a priority for these guys. What's the point of buying the 7850 if you're going to just play Age of Empires from yoinks ago?

That logic...

 

Some people play games from a range of time periods. It shouldn't be considered an edge case when designing the GPU.

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It's a personal irk of mine. When you have a technology working, dont break it!

You had perfect DX7 support back in the day; You've now bloated your drivers to HUNDREDS of megabytes, yet you've lost support for things from 10mb drivers? Who broke it? Answer for your damn coding decisions.

As a network admin, If I made a networking change that would break a whole bunch of services, you'd better be bloody sure everyone, and I mean everyone is OK with this.

eugh. Frustrating.

 

 

Yep. I play a few modern things. I purchased the card to be able to use DOTA2 to full capacity, and to play Bioshock when it came out (if you can get a code SORA3 thank you, but please don't spend money on me).

 

My old games list is quite unique. Usually arcade games or rare gems;

Virtual On: Cybertroopers

Microsoft Hellbender

Sonic CD (Hewlett Packard release, with patch)

Sonic Riders

Crazy Taxi

Croc: Legend of the Gobos

 

I play plenty of modern games (TF2, Bioshock, Portal, Dota2, Borderlands, etc), but there are just some that never got re-released.

 

As for the code, they said no and linked me to a list of stores who are participating. None of the stores on the list are in Australia; yet I know plenty of aussies, even here, who got codes. So they're just being stingy.

Bad form large company. Bad Form.

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In a perfect world, compatibility with older games would be kept with each new generation. But that's never going to happen unfortunately. Today's hardware is designed for much newer and more complex API's (hence the larger drivers). That and everyone is running at least Windows 7 these days, usually on 64 bit doesn't help anything

 

Sure, it's annoying not being able to play some awesome old games, but that's the price to pay for progress. Plus it's much more fun playing those games on period systems :-P

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I

 

Sure, it's annoying not being able to play some awesome old games, but that's the price to pay for progress.

That's what I used VMWare player for for a while as it has Accelerated 3d graphics built in to it (with VMWare tools installed).

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I

 

Sure, it's annoying not being able to play some awesome old games, but that's the price to pay for progress.

That's what I used VMWare player for for a while as it has Accelerated 3d graphics built in to it (with VMWare tools installed).

 

Yeah, I've done that for a few games, but lately haven't really played anything "old". Did set up my old Dell laptop with 98 SE a while back for this purpose, and it does well

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You had perfect DX7 support back in the day; You've now bloated your drivers to HUNDREDS of megabytes, yet you've lost support for things from 10mb drivers? Who broke it? Answer for your damn coding decisions.

There was also no x64 to contend with back in the day, or WDDM, or desktop composition, etc etc.

 

Sometimes it's not a matter of breaking something, it's a matter of that thing no longer working as-is, and having an unjustifiable cost involved in fixing it.

 

As a network admin, If I made a networking change that would break a whole bunch of services, you'd better be bloody sure everyone, and I mean everyone is OK with this.

eugh. Frustrating.

A network isn't a video driver.

 

Even then, you would certainly make "a networking change" that broke some old app or device that nobody uses any more, if it means a faster or more feature-filled environment.

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You had perfect DX7 support back in the day; You've now bloated your drivers to HUNDREDS of megabytes, yet you've lost support for things from 10mb drivers? Who broke it? Answer for your damn coding decisions.

There was also no x64 to contend with back in the day, or WDDM, or desktop composition, etc etc.

 

Sometimes it's not a matter of breaking something, it's a matter of that thing no longer working as-is, and having an unjustifiable cost involved in fixing it.

 

In theory I agree, but Direct X in and of itself is backward compatible. Same with .net and Flash. HTML\PHP, OpenGL, man so many things.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not asking for thousands of dollars of man hours to fix this thing. I'm asking for something fairly simple, for example, spoofing the use of the GPU to whatever is calling it and then passing it entirely off to Software Decoding. I know for a fact that works because emulators can do it. (i know an emulator isn't the same thing, but the GPU hook used is).

 

My CPU alone, being a 4.2ghz clocked i7 with HT can surely software render more than 2FPS of my DX2 game from 1995 that my GPU seems to think is the max.

 

I have always disliked progress for the sake of progress. I'm not one of those guys that doesn't want tech to progress, I'm a geek like everyone else here, give me my talking toilets and cyborg hamsters, but I honestly feel in any development that stability and compatibility should take a very strong front lead over new features.

 

I

 

Sure, it's annoying not being able to play some awesome old games, but that's the price to pay for progress.

That's what I used VMWare player for for a while as it has Accelerated 3d graphics built in to it (with VMWare tools installed).

 

That was going to be my next trial.

Also means I can play old full screen games in windowed mode too (windowing the VM). Pain to have to do though >< But its a workaround.

 

 

Hellbender?

I thought it was using TV's engine but it looks like it is using DirectX 2...

Early days eh? And what a FUN game. especially in network play mode.

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DirectX isn't as backwards compatible as much as it used to be. DirectX 10 changed a lot of things in that regard. I believe officially it has "support" for applications using down to DirectX 6, or at least that's what it says here

 

I really wish I had access to my old Atomic magazines, as there was a brilliant articles on DirectX 10 years ago that included information on backwards compatibility from memory

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I guess the blame lies more in Microsofts court then, eh?

I think so too :-P

 

But yeah, if you do have a crack at using VM's for older games, I'd be interested to see how you go. I might set one up again myself if things run smoothly for you :-)

Edited by nobody813

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Things would get even more cumbersome and bloated if vendors were forced to maintain extensive backwards compatibility forever.

 

Where do you draw the line? 3 major versions backwards? 4? You have to cut it off somewhere.

 

Eventually you just have to let go. If you absolutely must play these old games on demand, build a retro gaming rig. We're more than happy to give you tips over on the Vogons forums! ;)

Edited by SquallStrife

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I guess a bit of research goes a long way M_S, I'm sure there are others that have the same issues, i appreciate that you took a stab in the dark and it didn't work out, but just out of curiosity, do you know if Nvidia cards are any better for the older versions of direct x?

 

With regards to the free game thing and amd screwing you over, even the retailers that do carry them tend to forget about them and the douches at MSY didn't even know what it was exactly, but at the end of the day, that fault lies with the retailers and not amd.

Edited by NukeJockey

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i couldnt get nwn to launch recently on the amd betas but by extracting a file from a older amd driver and putting it in the games directory it now runs ok

there is still some graphic effects that dont work well and need to be disabled one is to do with water that results in bad corruption and the other is character refraction which makes the char go invisible

 

nvidia has had problems with this game for years now aswell

 

both amd and nvidia have significantly changed how there cards are setup over the years with one example being the shader arrangement it wont just be drivers that have changed to break games but hardware changes probably require major driver changes to suport older games on the new hardware which they will have done to a extent but i guess they dont feel like testing and fixing every game made

Edited by Dasa

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I honestly had a better experience with my Nvidia SLI setup than I have had with my Crossfire setup, but even Nvidia was slow for releasing SLI profiles.

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Too date I haven Lyon SLI'd once with the 295gtx. I hated it. It under performed and always ran into issues. I ended up disabling one of the gpu's.

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If you absolutely must play these old games on demand, build a retro gaming rig. We're more than happy to give you tips over on the Vogons forums! ;)

+1 on the retro gaming rig; Nothing more fun than throwing together a Pentium MMX rig, and bling-ing it up to look just like you're Sandy/Ivy bridge setup.

 

Wasn't that long ago I threw together, for Win9x games, a Pentium 3 rig which comprised: 1.4Ghz Tualatin, 512MB PC133 SD RAM, a Gigabyte GA-6IEML board, and a good old Voodoo 5 5500. All of this slapped together into a NZXT Vulcan with a 32GB IDE SSD.

 

And I couldn't be happier. :D

Edited by Dread Emperor

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