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eveln

Why is no discussion on Muslim / Islam allowed ?

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I call your bluff on closing the Green Room.

Well he's effectively done that already. Censored. Not allowed to talk about certain topics.

 

Because his mods keep leaving, and the only ones left are children....obviously the only way to control things now is with blanket censorship.

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Don't put religion in the thread title, don't let it derail into a 'fuckin towelheads should go back to their own country and not fuck up the rest of the world!', and I'm not sure where the problem is, TBH.

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There was an interesting article on news about a female news reporter from a certain background ripping off her traditional headwear on air in protest. And my god. She was magnificent to look at.

 

10/10 would bang. Plus all that shit shes standing for also.

That happened over a month ago.

 

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3827.htm

 

And she usually doesn't wear the veil on air.

 

 

Good on her for giving him an earfull but it has nothing to do with any world affairs.

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I call your bluff on closing the Green Room.

Well he's effectively done that already. Censored. Not allowed to talk about certain topics.

 

Because his mods keep leaving, and the only ones left are children....obviously the only way to control things now is with blanket censorship.

 

Feel free to let the door hit you on the way out, man. Otherwise, how about you pay attention to what I said.

 

I've told folks to stop the intolerance, and I locked the current threads that were descending into shitstorms, and that, taken together, made Atomic look like some white australia loony bin.

 

The only reason for anyone to feel that this is censorship, is if they're part of the problem. Now, as I said, I don't think we're capable of rational discussion without it degrading - feel free to prove me wrong.

 

However, call the mods out like that again, and you're out. Frankly, if everyone thinks the place is dying, then I may as well get trimming the dead wood.

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how about you pay attention to what I said.

And likewise you.

 

My point was, instead of just locking the thread and putting a sticky up in TGR, you or a mod could have stepped in and said "Righteo dickheads, stop derailing and enough with the anti-muslim comments or I will delete your posts. You've been warned, if you continue I'll delete your account".

 

Which is how things were usually done and how they should be done.

My thread wasn't anti Muslim. I was complaining about littering. Yes, people did start to shitfight. But deal with them individually.

 

 

The muslim fear thread and muslim apologist thread, agreed, they should have been nipped in the bud.

 

But what you have done now is instill so much fear in people that they afraid to post a thread on a bloke who was hacked to death in a public street. It's an amazing story but no one wants to talk about it.

 

Which is pretty communist if you ask me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you need to do, David, is take a deep breath and calm down :)

 

 

Edit: and for the record, I despise people who hate on Muslims just because they are Muslims. I've never, ever posted anything remotely like Muslim hate. So I fail to see how I am part of that problem.

Edited by twinair

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You're a part of the problem because you're looking at a blanket proposition, and taking it as a personal affront to yourself. It's not. About. You.

 

That said, if your thread was really about littering, perhaps you could have mentioned littering in the title - or the subhead? Because they way you did post it, and the way that then colours the rest of what you posted, it looks very much like the rest of white noise on the subject.

 

Now, if what I've done really scares you, and others - far out, man, grow up.

 

Also, have a good weekend - I'm sure we'll keep arguing on Monday.

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It was a general observation. I'm not scared of you.

 

 

But why do you think that no one has posted a thread on what happened in London?

Because you've basically stated that people cannot. I'm willing to bet a few people have considered it but thought to themselves oh but David will ban me.

 

The comment in my thread title was extremely relevant to my encounter. Infact it was the crux. Now contrary to popular belief, I am a grown up and am completely capable of having rational discussions. I didn't carry on and say I hated Muslims. Not once. Others did.

So penalise them, not the whole fucking place!

 

 

 

Also, have a good weekend...

You too.

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don't let it derail into a 'fuckin towelheads should go back to their own country and not fuck up the rest of the world!'

That's your job isn't it?

 

I would totally do that if I had the power. But I'm a mere mortal. So if I go around telling people what to do, then I'm a dick.

 

So I'm saying my thread could have been saved...

 

 

As for religion in the title. It was totally fine until the other two popped up, and they were rightly locked and should have been destroyed.

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not whinging because it was a thread that I started...I was trying to start an honest discussion. I'm whinging because of the censorship.

 

Muslim fear and hate is something I don't engage in.

Edited by twinair

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I think that it's rather telling that some people think a ban on religious intolerance is a ban on discussing Islam.

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ftr I didn't disparage anyone in twinairs thread and I didn't even post in Directors, I made the apologists thread to piss xyzzy off for stalking me around the forums

 

Anyway, why not have a CE&SD protected forum like the trademart that requires 100 posts and cannot be viewed if you are not logged in so people can get their rant on and not spoil the mood in TGR?

 

Probably not a good idea, but an idea none the less..

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Don't put religion in the thread title, don't let it derail into a 'fuckin towelheads should go back to their own country and not fuck up the rest of the world!', and I'm not sure where the problem is, TBH.

Well that was what I wanted clarified so thanks. hawkeye was being a bit ambiguous yesterday.

 

 

The muslim fear thread and muslim apologist thread, agreed, they should have been nipped in the bud.

 

But what you have done now is instill so much fear in people that they afraid to post a thread on a bloke who was hacked to death in a public street. It's an amazing story but no one wants to talk about it.

Do you know twinair, I couldn't understand what you were getting riled up for yesterday ... your thread wasn't / isn't on my radar ... I thought it must

have been that time of the month for you :P but yes the other two threads you mention were designed to cause mayhem only ( imo )

 

It was a general observation. I'm not scared of you.

 

 

But why do you think that no one has posted a thread on what happened in London?

Because you've basically stated that people cannot. I'm willing to bet a few people have considered it but thought to themselves oh but David will ban me.

 

The comment in my thread title was extremely relevant to my encounter. Infact it was the crux. Now contrary to popular belief, I am a grown up and am completely capable of having rational discussions. I didn't carry on and say I hated Muslims. Not once. Others did.

So penalise them, not the whole fucking place!

I agree with you here. Except that a lot of interesting stuff doesn't get posted here anymore, cos by the time you lot have finished with fb

and google+ you're done with the topics and the news is old ;)

 

I was scared that nobody seemed to care that discussion on religions may well be censored here. I didn't log in till the night time and

nobody had said anything in feedback ... that scared me no end.

 

 

I think that it's rather telling that some people think a ban on religious intolerance is a ban on discussing Islam.

^^ agent provocateure (sp?)

 

See what I wrote earlier about ambiguity ...

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TBH, I didn't even read that thread - and then the other two - until just before it was locked. The title alone basically made me want to avoid more of what I assumed would quickly become the same old from the same olds. Feel free to note the irony about noon-literal/obtuse/lateral thread titles.

 

I'm pretty laissez faire if there are no RTMs or PMs being sent about stuff. I didn't seea single RTM about your thread. I could clean it up, but where do I draw the line? Specific douchebaggery? Anything focusing on their faith, rather than being vandals?

 

My point above was as a reminder for forum members, that as much as this place breeds a certain level of familiarity (and that also breeds a certain level of contempt), it's a public forum. People can wander by and see stuff. I'd rather people learnt when the apropriate time and place was, for some things, than I have to babysit.

 

If I (or, presumably, other mods) have to sit and explain to people why villifying any group of people, just for being members of that group and thus tarred with anything another member might do, then I will. I'd just like to think that it's been said enough times, publicly, in general, that it should be clear. Or at least the idea that if noone RTMs, we won't know what happens in random threads that needs dealing with.

 

It also has me a bit worried that a) people took David's warning in the way that they did, and, honestly, b) no-one tried to push their luck, or even just PM a mod and ask their opinion on a thread/thread title.

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I guess it's the wording of his "Warning "

And also a reply hawkeye gave me yesterday, seemed to suggest a total lack of faith in us being able to argue intelligently - just thinking on that

makes me squirm a bit - so it might be best to not go there.

 

Still I'm glad to see it's clarified and discussion can occur.

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From the mgmt perspective I get the problem with having that number of Muslim threads at the top of the green room.

 

I also get that people feel they should be able to have an adult discussion about racism, for example, in the knowledge that if anyone gets out of line they can report the post and have it taken care of. As someone who can probably be put in the category of 'nazi mod' when I did my stint, that may have worked. But these are different times and getting the balance right is no mean feat.

 

There may be no right answer right now and we just have to move on.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Well from my perspective, the Muslim Fear thread was a complete success!

 

It called attention to what had become a cancer on these forums, generated some action and, more importantly, some serious discussion.

 

Whereas Betzie...

... made the apologists thread to piss xyzzy off for stalking me around the forums.

You should probably lay off the weed dude! Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

you like that edit button don't you?

 

http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?s...t&p=1079846

 

 

 

weed? you're drawing a long bow there, just like most of your apologists rhetoric

Is this me stalking you again?

 

Anyway, back to the OP.

 

With regards to Twinair's thread.

 

I understand that Twinny isn't one get into the sort of borderline hate speech that some members are prone to so I'll apologise up front for singling out Twinair. However, the thread was entitled "Don't pick on me because I'm Muslim", and in it Twinny wrote an account of a bottle smashing idiot who felt she was picked on for being Muslim rather than for being the bottle smashing idiot she is. The first question I'd ask is; does that really justify a whole thread devoted to it? I mean what's the point? Idiots are everywhere and this particular bottle smashing idiot just happened to be Muslim. Whoopy-fucking-doo! But then, sure as night follows day, off the thread degenerates into another Muslim bashing session, complete with graphic videos of stonings.

 

So, can anyone tell me what the fuck stonings have to do with a woman smashing bottles in a suburban park in Sydney? The entire thread functioned as an outlet for criticism of Muslims, not a discussion of, say minorities using their minority status as an excuse for bad behaviour, or why Twinair didn't pick up the glass himself if he was so concerned about kids cutting themselves(sorry Twinny!). This is hardly the first time it has happened, so I thought it might be worthwhile to start a thread where all of the retards can gather and and scare each other, and the rest of us could ignore.

 

And thus here we arrive.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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.

where all of the retards can gather and and scare each other, and the rest of us could ignore.

Two things I have to say to you and then I'm done.

 

I : you are no better than those you are complaining of.

 

2: When you type your post it's just you making your comment.

Unless specifically requested by others, and you can cite this, it's rude to speak for more than yourself.

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I'm all for making a thread just to make a point. Parody, and meta social commentary, are fun.

 

But pretty often they're going to get swept up with the rubbish, too. Honestly, I'm not sure that's a bad thing if it's only locked. Because, for example, an Islamic bitchfest thread is not going to actually contain all bitching about Islam. But it is going to stay there and make the point that there's too much bitching about Islam, say, with the bonus that, let's be honest: a locked thread is like a flame for moths.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

.

where all of the retards can gather and and scare each other, and the rest of us could ignore.

Two things I have to say to you and then I'm done.

 

I : you are no better than those you are complaining of.

 

2: When you type your post it's just you making your comment.

Unless specifically requested by others, and you can cite this, it's rude to speak for more than yourself.

 

Awwww, thanks for making this personal!

 

Don't worry Eveln, you definitely are not one of 'the rest of us' for whom I spoke.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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.

where all of the retards can gather and and scare each other, and the rest of us could ignore.

Two things I have to say to you and then I'm done.

 

I : you are no better than those you are complaining of.

 

2: When you type your post it's just you making your comment.

Unless specifically requested by others, and you can cite this, it's rude to speak for more than yourself.

 

Awwww, thanks for making this personal!

 

Don't worry Eveln, you definitely are not one of 'the rest of us' for whom I spoke.

 

Dont worry she always does that.

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im glad they got locked, all they do is make me fuckin rage and give flashbacks to all the horrible Islamic countries ive had to work in over the years. I didnt even read those other 2 threads that got locked.

 

The main thing that is annoying about this whole debate is when will the every day peace loving Muslims REALLY stand up to militant Islam and eradicate it from their religion to stop the damage it is doing to it instead of standing by and letting terrorists be called Matyrs . It reminds me of this comic

 

Posted Image

 

anyway, RIP Lee Rigby

 

 

P.S. Dont reply to me xyzzy frobozz, im not interested in anything you have to say and it will be ignored.

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...The entire thread functioned as an outlet for criticism of Muslims, not a discussion of, say minorities using their minority status as an excuse for bad behaviour, or why Twinair didn't pick up the glass himself if he was so concerned about kids cutting themselves(sorry Twinny!).

sure?

 

from Twinair's OP:

"My brother and I start cleaning up all the mess...and then they just walk away". later: "After she noticed I was ignoring her while my bro and I cleaned up, they left."

 

 

i think this was a case of too many unfortunate thread titles breaking the camel's back!

 

its difficult for me to believe there wasnt a degree of willful mischief in Twinair's choice of wording, given that any regular here could have anticipated the galvanising effect setting a tone like that was bound to have on certain elements here. kind of a no brainer! in saying that, however, i believe he should have the right to claim good faith. because a forum member should be able to start a discussion about whatever random thing they experienced that day,

 

-- without being held to ransom by the potential of others to misinterpret them or derail the discussion

(because, in the absence of confidently pessimistic (and possibly self-fulfilling) assumptions about the existence of a 'problematic culture of bigotry' here, i would see nothing at all wrong with the topic)

 

-- and without fear of being retroactively ambushed by successive threads

(which...was the effect of your thread, frobozz.)

 

'twas a well intentioned thread, and one that drew Virtuoso out of the woodwork to make this this wonderful contribution.

 

but the irony was what did it! that is what i believe was the tipping point, even before whatshisname started that other thread. you just cant expect a title like that to fly on the front page, in that company, without the risk of too many people missing the point. it all started to look, at face value, like conclusive circumstantial evidence of something UGLY happening here. something most unworthy of MrFriendly's Room of Magic and Candy for Kids.

Edited by @~thehung

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

**Good points**

I agree with your post in it's entirety, and apologise to Twinair again, I'd forgotten that he HAD cleaned up the mess.

 

 

Dont reply to me xyzzy frobozz, im not interested in anything you have to say and it will be ignored.

Well it's a shame you won't be reading this, because if you did you'd find that I thought it one of your more thoughtful posts and one that I have some sympathy for.

 

EDIT:- Gran ma.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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...The entire thread functioned as an outlet for criticism of Muslims, not a discussion of, say minorities using their minority status as an excuse for bad behaviour, or why Twinair didn't pick up the glass himself if he was so concerned about kids cutting themselves(sorry Twinny!).

sure?

 

from Twinair's OP:

"My brother and I start cleaning up all the mess...and then they just walk away". later: "After she noticed I was ignoring her while my bro and I cleaned up, they left."

 

 

i think this was a case of too many unfortunate thread titles breaking the camel's back!

 

its difficult for me to believe there wasnt a degree of willful mischief in Twinair's choice of wording, given that any regular here could have anticipated the galvanising effect setting a tone like that was bound to have on certain elements here. kind of a no brainer! in saying that, however, i believe he should have the right to claim good faith. because a forum member should be able to start a discussion about whatever random thing they experienced that day,

 

-- without being held to ransom by the potential of others to misinterpret them or derail the discussion

(because, in the absence of confidently pessimistic (and possibly self-fulfilling) assumptions about the existence of a 'problematic culture of bigotry' here, i would see nothing at all wrong with the topic)

 

-- and without fear of being retroactively ambushed by successive threads

(which...was the effect of your thread, frobozz.)

 

'twas a well intentioned thread, and one that drew Virtuoso out of the woodwork to make this this wonderful contribution.

 

but the irony was what did it! that is what i believe was the tipping point, even before whatshisname started that other thread. you just cant expect a title like that to fly on the front page, in that company, without the risk of too many people missing the point. it all started to look, at face value, like conclusive circumstantial evidence of something UGLY happening here. something most unworthy of MrFriendly's Room of Magic and Candy for Kids.

 

Nicely played.

 

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that people will think before they post and that seems to lead to deliberate misinterpretation in order to score points. I may be wrong but that's how it appears and it's why I do my best not to engage those who take that path. It only leads to threadshitting and that does nothing for the discussion or the forums as a whole.

 

Looking at the green room for the first time and seeing a plethora of Muslim threads would not be attractive to people we want to attract. Browsing threads that turn into a shit fight because that's what some people want would have a similar impact.

 

I know that the current moderating style is deliberately more relaxed than the old days, but I think this sort of behavior should be slapped down. I also know that that style of moderating wasn't popular in the day so it's rock and hard place :)

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