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meowkitty

what does all this stuff mean?

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I am having a shit of a time holding a stable connection

 

I have ab Asus N55u. I was very happy with it. the default firm were was great, the quality of service controls worked well. but then, 3 things happened at once and I do not know which I should address 1st

 

the 3 things are, Updated the firmware to the current, Kasperski expired and was upgraded to AVG free. the 3rd is telstra but thats just gut feeling.

 

so the current firmware is Version 3.0.0.4.364

http://www.asus.com/Networking/DSLN55U_Ann...ort_Download_30

I looks fancy, the LAN and wan stuff is nicer the quality of service seems to need a set max for up and down where the original just worked with what it had. which was great given how I suspect my internet is fucked,

 

Tonight I went to Telstra and changed my configuration. it used to be Noise protection profile 1 with the below information from the Modem.

I have already noted that when my Net is good, the SNR up and down is 6, when it's shit, the SNR down drops. up stays the same.

 

Modulation : ADSL2+

Annex Mode : Annex A/L

Line State : up

Lan Tx : 50757075

Lan Rx : 37246906

ADSL Tx : 12292734

ADSL Rx : 15654080

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 26032

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 5290

HEC Down : 18428

HEC Up : 0

SNR Up : 6.5

SNR Down : 1.6

Line Attenuation Up : 20.7

Line Attenuation Down : 50.0

Data Rate Up : 942

Data Rate Down : 8157

 

I have updated the tesltra profile to Noise protection 3, which will take up to 4 hours to take effect (or allow me to change it)

 

 

so, to the top quesiton, what is the important bits to tell telstra?

Most of the time it's consistent but there are spikes of crap. is the SNR indicative of others usign the copper, as has been suggested in other discussions?

the branch I have to the exchange is not very populated, but that is a relative thing.

 

at times, the nerd rage is electric as the net just goes to lunch right when I need it to least.

and with my partner doing UNI out of CHuck sturt, a student without concern for the net is a positive thing around here. moreso than If I can raid in wow.

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new profile kicked in, either the reconnect helped or the new profile.

let us observe

 

Modulation : ADSL2+

Annex Mode : Annex A/L

Line State : up

Lan Tx : 50993591

Lan Rx : 37356453

ADSL Tx : 295

ADSL Rx : 714

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 0

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 7708

HEC Down : 0

HEC Up : 07

SNR Up : 11.0

SNR Down : 6.0

Line Attenuation Up : 20.7

Line Attenuation Down : 50.0

Data Rate Up : 767

Data Rate Down : 8030

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CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 26032

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 5290

HEC Down : 18428

HEC Up : 0

SNR Up : 6.5

SNR Down : 1.6

Line Attenuation Up : 20.7

Line Attenuation Down : 50.0

Don't like all those errors, nasty nasty, and a down SNR of 1.6 is totally crap.

With Noise protection 3 6.0dB down is much better and you should aim for at least that.

Any audible noise on your phone line? If so ring your voice provider and report a voice fault (don't mention ADSL).

Using a short lead between wall socket and modem? Want to keep that lead to a metre or less. All devices, except the modem, connected to the phone ports properly filtered?

Tried an isolation test? That is unplug everything from all phone sockets in the house and connect the modem with a short phone lead and no filter at all.

 

 

/edit

Unfortunately that modem appears to use a Ralink TC3086 chipset which is not ideal for high attenuation lines (what you have at 50dB).

For high attenuation lines you are best using a Broadcom chipset modem as they seem to work better (more stable) with high attenuation.

 

 

 

http://blog.internode.on.net/2009/11/29/op...ce-performance/

has some good pointers to testing an ADSL connection.

Edited by aliali

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aliali, you seem to know about modem chips....

 

I have a low quality line which syncs at 0.9mbps down, 0.6mbps up.

Using my Billion 7800N, and tweaking the Snr.html page, I've managed to lie about my SNR and get 5mbps down, and 800kbps up; however due to correction, my best local ping is 60ms. But no dropouts.

 

Using a different adsl profile doesnt help (tried 1, 2 and 2+)

Can you suggest anything else?

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aliali, you seem to know about modem chips....

 

I have a low quality line which syncs at 0.9mbps down, 0.6mbps up.

Using my Billion 7800N, and tweaking the Snr.html page, I've managed to lie about my SNR and get 5mbps down, and 800kbps up; however due to correction, my best local ping is 60ms. But no dropouts.

 

Using a different adsl profile doesnt help (tried 1, 2 and 2+)

Can you suggest anything else?

Just know some od the basics from reading bits and pieces.

Not much I can really help with as the 7800N has the Broadcom chipset so is most suitable for high attenuation lines.

I am in a similar boat with

Upstream 832

Downstream 2720

SNR Margin(Upstream) 8.0

SNR Margin(Downstream) 4.9

Line Attenuation(Upstream) 31.0

Line Attenuation(Downstream) 59.0 (think the Billion actually reports this a bit higher than other modems).

 

Just waiting for a joint to get bad enough to report another voice fault. Once the techs redo the worst joints on my line I can generally sync at 3.5Mbit

I have left my SNR at the default setting as dropping the SNR any lower totally stuffs the connection. ADSL mode is set to G.Lite T1.413 and G.Dmt as selecting the ADSL2 and ADSL2+ options actually reduces my sync a bit.

 

4 to 5dB SNR down seems to be about the lowest stable connection with 6dB being a lot better.

 

0.9mbps down

is actually below Telstra's minimum provision speed so surprised you where even hooked up on that. However they seem to use records not actual line tests to determine whether ADSL is a go/no go so your godawful standard speed does suggest either Telstra's records are wrong (and they often are) or you have a line fault of some sort.

I take it you have done all the usual tests (isolation, new phone lead, checked for old b2b alarms (active or inactive)) etc etc.

If you are in an MDU with an MDF that distributes to all units then can be worth getting a line test (will have to be at your expense) done at the MDF in case it is the building wiring causing the crap sync.

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Its an Internode naked line; though through a telstra exchange, yes.

When I get home I'll get some actual numbers about my line quality.

 

Currently using a custom SNR of 25. I forget what that equates to in Db, but it works for me.

30 makes the connection drop in the rain.

 

Best thing about the 7800N (or NL? ive forgotten) is that it has 2 seperate sections for errors, and uncorrectable errors.

I get a LOT of errors; a metric tonne! however, none of them are uncorrectable :) Though this is why my ping is high-ish, but I need some type of throughput damn it!

 

I'll get some line quality numbers when I get back home.

 

0.9mbps down

is actually below Telstra's minimum provision speed so surprised you where even hooked up on that. However they seem to use records not actual line tests to determine whether ADSL is a go/no go so your godawful standard speed does suggest either Telstra's records are wrong (and they often are) or you have a line fault of some sort.

I take it you have done all the usual tests (isolation, new phone lead, checked for old b2b alarms (active or inactive)) etc etc.

If you are in an MDU with an MDF that distributes to all units then can be worth getting a line test (will have to be at your expense) done at the MDF in case it is the building wiring causing the crap sync.

 

also, only 1 phone socket in the house. my modem.

Its a regular phone line.

We had one corroded connection in the box outside my house, which was replaced in front of me when it was hooked up.

 

Gonna go make myself one of these:

www.wirelesswaffle.com/index.php?entry=entry120211-055210

Though I'll be twisting, then soldering the joins. Fuck all those extra joins.

 

My phone cable is about 90cm, which is wayyy too long. I need 10cm at most. So I'll try find a short cable ASAP too (or make one, as above. Just the 'mild' one)

Edited by Master_Scythe

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Its an Internode naked line; though through a telstra exchange, yes.

When I get home I'll get some actual numbers about my line quality.

But it must be on an Internode DSLAM (or perhaps an Optus one depending on plan) for naked to be available.

I take it you have chatted with 'nodes tech support to see if they can see any faults on the line?

 

Personally I would drop the naked line for a couple of reasons.

No price saving (except for the Easy naked 150 GB Special)

Hopeless for line faults (Telstra don't "get" naked services)

Having an active voice service apparently provides a "wetting" current on the copper which can help alleviate joint problems (hand set occasionally does need to be lifted to run this current through the line).

 

We had one corroded connection in the box outside my house, which was replaced in front of me when it was hooked up.

I assume you mean a Madison box or similar on the side of the house?

http://www.thebroadbanddoctor.com.au/img/m..._box_closed.jpg

Which side was the corrosion on? Wan side or house side?

 

If the line in the house to the wall jack is fairly long could be worth replacing that horrible twisted pair with some cat5E (you need a qualified bod to do this ;-))

Oddly I would also try fitting an ADSL splitter to your modem lead. You plug the modem in the the modem socket of course and you just leave the Telephone socket empty. This can occasionally help clean up issues caused by the house phone wiring.

 

My phone cable is about 90cm, which is wayyy too long. I need 10cm at most

90cm is fine, unless it is damaged, but at the least shorter would be tidier.

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-Im on the easy naked 150Gb special :P

 

-No I havn't chatted with Internode about it. Last I tried I was told telstra is in charge of line quality.

 

- No, I mean there is a pit in the lawn outside my house with a bunch of connections in it, and joins that look like thick-stemmed lollipops where the cable meets my block. full of water and mud :P

 

- I might run some conduit, and CAT6e right from my house, to the phone line on the street connection, and just leave it loose for now. I know a few telstra certified cablers that can join the two together hopefully.

 

Worth a shot at least. the run from the streets main line, to my socket, would be about 10m

Edited by Master_Scythe

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1st thing I did when I got home was get out my bag of tricks in search of a tele'cable. they are all either 2m or 0.2m. meaning the length of Cat5e is 1m too short to use the 0.2m.

 

I will have to schedule the down time so I can access the phone port and stuff up (read deny access to) the whole network as the modem is in a bedroom.

 

I have a lazy 280m of Cat5e I want to use to rewire the hose to have network access with ports, not wires around the walls.

Can I run extra Cat 5 to replace the phone line? I read above that parts can be replaced, if i'm in a roof cavity why the hell not run more cable about the place particularly if it fixes issues with noise and quality. eh?

 

 

here is the log as on now. with an uptime of 38 minutes

 

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 1

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 21217

HEC Down : 2

HEC Up : 0

SNR Up : 11.5

SNR Down : 6.1

Line Attenuation Up : 20.7

Line Attenuation Down : 50.0

Data Rate Up : 767

Data Rate Down : 8030

Edited by meowkitty

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I have a lazy 280m of Cat5e I want to use to rewire the hose to have network access with ports, not wires around the walls.

Can I run extra Cat 5 to replace the phone line? I read above that parts can be replaced, if i'm in a roof cavity why the hell not run more cable about the place particularly if it fixes issues with noise and quality. eh?

No you can't legally run any sort of phone line. Same goes for network cables. Both have to be installed by certified cablers with the relevant endorsements.

 

here is the log as on now. with an uptime of 38 minutes

 

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 1

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 21217

HEC Down : 2

HEC Up : 0

SNR Up : 11.5

SNR Down : 6.1

Line Attenuation Up : 20.7

Line Attenuation Down : 50.0

Data Rate Up : 767

Data Rate Down : 8030

Still don't like those errors but the connection is not too bad, Although your data rate seems a bit high for the attenuation and SNR actually, but nothing major.

If it is still dropping out then most likely the Ralink TC3086 chipset in the N55U not liking the long line. Only thing you can do for that is to replace the modem router with a Broadcom on, which may fix the dropout problem.

 

I might run some conduit, and CAT6e right from my house, to the phone line on the street connection, and just leave it loose for now. I know a few telstra certified cablers that can join the two together hopefully.

I very much doubt they would even touch that as the cable and conduit has to be buried and installed by approved installers and done to Telstra's specs.

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Fucking lot of errors is what I think.

SNR actually looks good unless the snr tweak makes that figure a lie.

If your attenuation is normally around 47dB then you should have been getting around 5Mbps or so without the tweak. Yet more pointers to some sort of fault.

Also where did you pull those stats from? My 7800N gives nothing for error rates.

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Its a 7800NL.

Under statistics -> xDSL.

 

Yeah the tweak is correcting for about 4db I think....

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1567481

I'm currently at "35" Might bump it back to 40.....

 

Also need to find a page of 'tweaks' to increase ping, as opposed to speeds, lol.

 

that lot of errors is from about..... 2 months of uptime?

Ive had 0 dropouts, and only one file thus far has ever downloaded corrupted (took 4 goes to get that fucker! was a 10gb file too, lol)

 

What risk are errors if my connection is stable and my downloads seem clean?

Edited by Master_Scythe

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Just trying a game of DOTA now.

 

Back to -1 SNR, which is 0db correction (eg. default) and no ping improvement :(

 

Back to high speeds i go!

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that lot of errors is from about..... 2 months of uptime?

Ive had 0 dropouts, and only one file thus far has ever downloaded corrupted (took 4 goes to get that fucker! was a 10gb file too, lol)

Ah ok that's not so bad then, I assumed that was from just a few hours of running.

What risk are errors if my connection is stable and my downloads seem clean?

Well too many errors means to much data being resent so the actual transmission speed slows down. Uncorrectable errors can mean corrupt downloads, but as you say only one corrupt download then obviously not a problem.

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Cool. You're right though, dropping my speed a bit did lead to a faster general HTTP loading speed, however downloads didnt max out quite as high.

Might set it to '50' which is 3db correction, i believe, and see if that's nice.

 

Also gonna cut the phone line down to size and re solder the bastard tonight. The cupboard with my modem in it has another 3 modems, 4 routers, and all the related power packs, ina 2ft cubed space; so i'm sure the interferance is huge, lol.

Edited by Master_Scythe

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yes yes, resistance in the solder join. I find I get none if i strip, twist, crimp, then solder (3 hit whammy).

But you're right. I found a crimping tool in a box here at work. Its coming home with me tonight.

 

Gonna hit up jaycar and get some RJ12's and use a length of CAT6 :)

 

 

On another note, my ADSL profile on internode was set to "ADSL1 Very High Reliability" So i set it to "ADSL2+ High Speed" because someone on whirlpool with near identical line stats had success at that speed.

We'll see how I go.

 

Might also try "Low Latency" profile, and see how many packets I lose due to the disabled interleaving.

Edited by Master_Scythe

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On another note, my ADSL profile on internode was set to "ADSL1 Very High Reliability"

Ah shit totally forgot about that. Internode set that as the initial profile because it gives the best chance of getting a stable connection.

I would set the modem back to the default -1 SNR while you test the different profiles.

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If my line can handle interleaving off, I'll be the happiest man on earth. To get sub-50 DOTA pings... would be orgasmic.

And no, I'm an adventurer, I'll be going back to 50 SNR for the testing. 3db that is.

 

Gonna see if high speed works first. Then go from there.

Ironically I just changed it, from work, for home.

 

I know its doing OK so far, because whenever I disconnect and reconnect my modem a lot i get a call going "YOUR CONNECTION IS SHIT! ARE YOU OK!?!!??!" from 'node. lol. So even though I'm not home, its likely stable.

 

 

 

Quick question. How am I best to check for packet loss over say a half hour period? is there a tool I can run?

Edited by Master_Scythe

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Quick question. How am I best to check for packet loss over say a half hour period? is there a tool I can run?

Jeez dude that's a long way beyond me. You could try the PRTG Network Monitor from http://www.paessler.com/latency_jitter

Note that was from a google and I have not used it myself.

Otherwise ping -n 100 hostname

where

hostname = Your server

-n 100 = Ping 100 times

 

You don't really want to do this on a public server as they may block your IP address if you run it for too long.

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Picked up 1.5mbps, SNR set to '75' stable as a rock!

 

REALLY wanna try 'low latency' profile, but dont think that'll really help me.

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Had opportunity to get on the phone with some people this weekend. low hiss was just detectable but there are random spikes of crackle. so a voice fault call will be made.

 

the SNRs looked like this all weekend. some times I can't just walk into the room the modem is in to reboot it in the hope it will return to 6.0 down.

 

SNR Up : 10.5

SNR Down : 2.1

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The low hiss is probably within acceptable levels if it is barely audible, but the random spikes and crackles will be a problem. You don't have to ring someone to check just lift the handset and dial 1 or 2 digits to silence the dial tone.

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The low hiss is probably within acceptable levels if it is barely audible, but the random spikes and crackles will be a problem. You don't have to ring someone to check just lift the handset and dial 1 or 2 digits to silence the dial tone.

got the hiss. what I was meaning was that during a longer phonecall to acer helpdesk I discovered that the line was crapier than I had 1st thought.

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