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Caelum

NBN - Is it too expensive?

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my point being, not everybody needs FTTH but everyone will be getting it. It's the want versus need discussion. Personally I don't like either solution, but IMO the Labor NBN is a better bad solution to the Liberal NBN :)

 

As for the variation in speed, when I test it it's always been above 90 when there haven't been outages.

 

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However rolling it out to only those who need or want it would become prohibitively expensive, just look at the current cost of Fibre on Demand to businesses.

You are also looking at the NBN as a purely internet access product. It is not. It is a basic network on which other products can run.

It's like not everyone needs that 4 or 6 lane freeway going in to the city centre either, but it still gets built because there is a need for it in general.

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However rolling it out to only those who need or want it would become prohibitively expensive, just look at the current cost of Fibre on Demand to businesses.

You are also looking at the NBN as a purely internet access product. It is not. It is a basic network on which other products can run.

It's like not everyone needs that 4 or 6 lane freeway going in to the city centre either, but it still gets built because there is a need for it in general.

I understand that it's dumb to roll out FTTH for every 5th house because that's how many people need uberfast broadband. Having said that, we have had fibre past our street for a number of years and it will still be 3-4 years before we get access :) As for the NBN being much more than just the internet, I've spent a reasonable amount of time in places like South Korea where broadband penetration and speed are around the highest in the world, so I get that if we do the same we can also have the most profitable gamers on the planet! :)

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I used to be on cable, it was great, still delivers my Foxtel, but it did suffer not infrequent outages that were almost always related to water in the pits nearby. The fact is that the co-ax is still copper, still prone to water damage and like all copper degrades much quicker than glass. It's also worth mentioning that the cable itself is far more expensive than fibre optics.

 

I think you are very lucky in your cable connection speeds Mac. My street is one of the few in my area that has cable, as more and more people in the street became aware that they could get their internet over the cable so my performance, whilst still impressive at the time, degraded.

 

An all glass network is not perfect, very few things are, a hybrid fibre and copper network is significantly less perfect.

 

One of the nice things about GPON is less active components in the path, less active, less failures.

 

Cheers

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Nominally, that's an 8Mb line. And today's a good day - it gets much, much worse.

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Nominally, that's an 8Mb line. And today's a good day - it gets much, much worse.

You're using one of these, right?

 

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

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First 300 baud modem we had was like that.

 

Then we upgraded to a 1200 baud that handled the connection itself (no handset).

 

Oh the speed!

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My innernet slows down when all the neighbourhood kiddies get home from school and start downloading pRon........

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:) I think acoustic couplers may finally have disappeared from the market but long after I thought they had I had a customer with a very specific need for them, before internet in hotel rooms was common. I was rather astonished to find there were some, for then, amazingly fast offerings and we sold about eighty of them.

 

One of those was my first domestic connection - some service that no longer exists, I think it was 1200/75 and I could pay my 'phone bill on it ;) I don't really recall what else it ever did but it hung off of a C-64 if that is any indication.

 

It's an indication of just how far we have pushed the copper - comes a time when pushing shit up hill is wasted effort :)

 

Cheers

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I don't really recall what else it ever did but it hung off of a C-64 if that is any indication.

Bulletin Boards! The dial up BBS! You could download pirated Microbee games off some of them. Slowly.

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Posted Image

 

Nominally, that's an 8Mb line. And today's a good day - it gets much, much worse.

You're using one of these, right?

 

[acoustic coupler]

 

Oh no - at least then there'd be an excuse. It's several years old now, but there's an ADSL2+-compliant 4-port Zyxel switch between me and the 'phone line. Kinda wasted since the Telstra hardware serving this place won't handle anything above ADSL (1, no +).

 

If I lived less than a kilometre away in any direction, I'd be in an are having new cables laid or planned within a year. Where I am, though, is not even marked on the NBN planning map - which goes out to 3 years.

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Media is moving away from discs and free-to-air to on-demand online streaming. 4K resolution video on a copper network as bad as ours simply won't happen. 100Mbps may sound great now, but split that between multiple people per property, and factor in the rapid increase in online media consumption, and that isn't so large anymore. Guarantee a baseline network speed and streaming services will become more feasible. The fact that people sit in front of TVs and watch what they're told to is insane in a world full of higher quality on-demand media.

 

Fibre is also more reliable and is not susceptible to flooded pits like copper is. The amount of times I've had to put off my research work because my Internet suddenly stops working is utter bullshit. Even when my connection is at its best the upload speeds are dismal. That means I can't backup my system offsite as often as I should be, even after moving to 100Mbps cable recently (uploads are 2.5Mbps).

 

Fast and reliable Internet should be a no brainer in any country, let alone a first world one. Let's not pretend we know what the future holds, and that we only need X amount of bandwidth. Build it and they will come. Even better, we build it, and then reap the benefits globally.

Edited by .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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I'm glad that any price for faster 4K porn is ok then...

What you do with your connection is your business. This is about having a reliable nationwide network for any purpose, whether its entertainment or research.

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:)We are just used to it cyber, and so we should be actually, but when I was sort of your age and doing somewhat what you are doing although I'm no coder, more theory, my research was at the library and my backup was pencil and paper :)

 

(Probably no more secure really, lost a notebook once somewhere in Waterloo Station and had to rely on memory for the exam next day :)

 

There are caveats:

 

I got a good night's sleep because I had no notes to cram on

 

Memory worked, still passed :)

 

Cheers

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I'm old enough to remember getting a 9600 baud modem. At the time 14,000 baud (from memory) modems were available but, at the time, nobody much bothered with them because they were very expensive and, well, nobody will EVER need that much bandwidth.....

 

That was only about 20 years ago. Hell, 56k was only about 13 years ago....

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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I'm old enough to remember getting a 9600 baud modem. At the time 14,000 baud (from memory) modems were available but, at the time, nobody much bothered with them because they were very expensive and, well, nobody will EVER need that much bandwidth.....

 

That was only about 20 years ago. Hell, 56k was only about 13 years ago....

My first was a 2400. Wanted quite a bit before that, but couldn't afford it - which was probably just as well considering how much time there was between the 300 and the 2400, and how much they were asking back then.

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My first was a 2400. I was a Sysop at a BBS that had a blisteringly faster 14.4k

 

I remember downloading Jazz Jackrabbit on 2400

 

AD

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I'm old enough to remember getting a 9600 baud modem. At the time 14,000 baud (from memory) modems were available but, at the time, nobody much bothered with them because they were very expensive and, well, nobody will EVER need that much bandwidth.....

 

That was only about 20 years ago. Hell, 56k was only about 13 years ago....

My first was a 2400. Wanted quite a bit before that, but couldn't afford it - which was probably just as well considering how much time there was between the 300 and the 2400, and how much they were asking back then.

 

Oh jeez I have no idea, I was still pretty young - dad handled all that stuff. I do remember them not being "cheap", but I really have no idea.

 

I miss the old ring tone, squeal, higher pitched squeal, squelch, beep - CONNECTED!

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I miss the old ring tone, squeal, higher pitched squeal, squelch, beep - CONNECTED!

Or in my case for 56k dialup squeal, higher pitched squeal, squelch, beep - CONNECTED - DROPPED and repeat. That was till I figured out how to use AT commands on the Swann external modem to force it to connect at 33.6K where it would generally be fairly stable and this was only 13 years ago.

God knows how much Telstra spent on my line complaints trying to fix induced noise from electric fences and bad joints. Had Telstra bods out here at least every month till they sent up a senior tech from Hobart who spent most of a day on my line alone. Finally got it sorted with several noise coils placed at strategic places on the phone line to reduce the hums and clicks so I could hold a 33.6K connection.

All came off when I went 128K ISDN of course.

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&fx3....

 

 

 

Sad that i still remember it...

+++

ATAT

 

<murk> I seem to recall changing this section a bunch anyway.

 

ATH0

ATZ

 

 

 

And no, I have no idea why the Attention line repeated, just that it did.

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Star wars, duh.

LOL!

 

Now I'm picturing the startup sequence for Imperial Walkers:

 

Masters On. Fuel on crossfeed. Pumps on. Sensors on. Gyros to speed. Comms oDOOOO-KEEEEEEEEEE-KSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHS

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Come on Mac Dude, You havn't been retired that long mate!

 

Although in either case, more fiber is a good thing. :P

 

:D

 

 

Sure, faster porn, uncles named torrence, etc etc, but with education, imagine the colaborations between campuses, post grads in perth and sydney working on the same paper, super high def live video confrences with outback school kids to.. museums? rocket launches? the syncotron? parlament? imagine the boost to science literacy if the csiro sent a "Chris Hadfield"to the ISS to talk to and inspire kids. sure, we can now, but what schoolkid wants to see a streamed 240p blurry vid of that?

 

I could go on.. SCIENCE! EDUCATION! But your all probebly bored about that now.

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