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NBN - Is it too expensive?

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We should have bitten the bullet two decades and more ago, bit late now.

a) Yes, we should have; but b) bollocks - it's cheaper now, but also is now just catching up rather than leaping ahead. "Too late" would be when everyone else is installing long-distance tunneling links that communicate faster than light. So... A long time.

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We should have bitten the bullet two decades and more ago, bit late now.

a) Yes, we should have; but b) bollocks - it's cheaper now, but also is now just catching up rather than leaping ahead. "Too late" would be when everyone else is installing long-distance tunneling links that communicate faster than light. So... A long time.

 

Relative to inflation it's not actually much if anything cheaper at all. glass is about as cheap as it gets, connectors have come down and become easier to work with, interfaces in real terms have remained about the same, avalanche Photodiodes, the core of interfaces remain expensive.

 

It's chicken and egg of course, a nice big order would see them much cheaper.

 

Cheers

 

 

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Had a dropout last night, no idea why. It reconnected prettymuch straight away.

Modem log not much help, it seems to keep 24 hours and no more, so unknown if it's beeen a regular thing.

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https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-will-add-fttc-upgrade-options-to-technology-choice-500310?utm_source=pcta&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=networkbar

Do you want FTTC/FTTdp - Yes, you can ask for it (user pays!)

 

NBN Co will add fibre-to-the-curb to the upgrade options available under its ‘Technology Choice’ program.

Executives from NBN Co told a parliamentary committee that a user-pays upgrade option would be developed for fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) customers that wanted to switch to a FTTC connection.

(posted in the right thread this time)

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I would like to take a needle and sew shut Senator Fifield's mouth from uttering the words, "Fit for purpose".

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15 hours ago, strifus said:

I would like to take a needle and sew shut Senator Fifield's mouth from uttering the words, "Fit for purpose".

Nah, use copper wire. They love copper wire.

  • Haha 1

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2 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

Nah, use copper wire. They love copper wire.

and it has the added advantage of being able to carry a current. ?

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The NBN maybe a lemon but the Murdoch empire is crumbling anyway, the Internets killed it.

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Interesting.

So I've just been having a look over my stats. Each day, on average I use between 11 and 13 GB of data, split 80/20 between downloads and uploads.

Youtube is the highest usage (Baby Shark Do Do Do Do - gah!). Then Netflix. Together these constitute almost 75% of web usage on my 30Mbps Optus Cable.

My place is getting NBN (HFC) between April and July according to the NBN site.

 

This is where it gets interesting. I get a solid Optus 4G signal at home.

One of my clients is implementing SD-WAN via my company and they've got the new Optus 4G 500GB plan. I've been testing it for about 4 days now.

At all points during the day, using the built-in speedtest of the UniFi gear at home - I'm getting averages of between 45 and 55Mbps, with  spikes up to 65Mbps.

There's also a 5G service coming with unlimited data in a lot more locations than the 61 currently supported.

 

I should state that 30Mbps suits me perfectly fine. We never have more than 2 Netflix streams and Youtube cartoons running. I've stopped BitTorrenting ages ago.

I do a lot of RDP and ICA, but apart from that... it's basically just streaming media. 

In terms of latency - the Optus connection hovers somewhere in the mid-30s in terms of ms, to the DC I RDP to most. On my Optus Cable, 18ms is fairly typical. But because RDP is fairly forgiving, 35ms is imperceptible.

 

I've also just upgraded our phone plans to Vodafone's 100GB data allowance. I'm paying less for these than I did for 15GB 2 years ago.

 

Guess who's not going to be getting any version of the NBN, Fibre or not, given 4G/5G is quicker at cost, portable and is available now?

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3 hours ago, Leonid said:

This is where it gets interesting. I get a solid Optus 4G signal at home.

One of my clients is implementing SD-WAN via my company and they've got the new Optus 4G 500GB plan. I've been testing it for about 4 days now.

At all points during the day, using the built-in speedtest of the UniFi gear at home - I'm getting averages of between 45 and 55Mbps, with  spikes up to 65Mbps.

There's also a 5G service coming with unlimited data in a lot more locations than the 61 currently supported.

I should state that 30Mbps suits me perfectly fine. We never have more than 2 Netflix streams and Youtube cartoons running.

I've also just upgraded our phone plans to Vodafone's 100GB data allowance. I'm paying less for these than I did for 15GB 2 years ago.

Guess who's not going to be getting any version of the NBN, Fibre or not, given 4G/5G is quicker at cost, portable and is available now?

As someone whose home connection is NBN fixed wireless, GL when lots of people take up that option. But at least Optus has (nominally) better network design, and won't be relying on microwave P2P links on towers.

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47 minutes ago, Nich... said:

As someone whose home connection is NBN fixed wireless, GL when lots of people take up that option

The issue isn't luck or technology.

As I outlined clearly earlier - the NBN's original technology was basically the second best technology solution out there. Only Active Ethernet (ie non-GPON) was better, technically.

 

The issue was one of timing vs. cost. It was done at the cusp of the 4G rollout and against all market trends.

Now that we've gone and spent billions, if Optus or Voda or Telstra or TPG take even 20% of the NBN's expected business, the government will need to write off a lot of the NBN's debt. And then even more to make it competitive.

 

The NBN was a world-class white elephant the moment it graduated from being a $4.9b wireless solution.

 

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Lots of people saying 5G will be better than NBN, mostly true if your NBN isn't FTTP or FTTK but it would overload existing mobile towers anyway so to recuperate costs of upgrading towers 5G will be expensive.

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And I don't see how 5g will be scalable like original nbn should have been. Gigabit internet eventually at least. 

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It would be nice if there was a proper potential health understanding of 5G before they go and roll it out:

https://app.secure.griffith.edu.au/news/2017/08/17/concerns-rise-over-potential-adverse-health-effects-of-5g-technology/

Plenty of other credible articles out there.

Wireless is all very well but this is a BIG country and with the need for far denser tower concentrations for 5G it is not viable beyond dense population centres in any real sense.

Which puts us back to the have-and-have-not pathetic argument that was used to stop a proper glass rollout in the first place - USO be damned, we haven't ended up with it anyway. What we DO have is a two organisation finger pointing exercise squabbling over who is at fault when a connection fucks up, particularly on hybrid connections and inevitably going to escalate as the idiotic beyond EOL copper segment oxidises.

My mother is on a FTTN, fucks up all the time. She has had two routers from T$, God alone knows how many call-outs, but the problem is pretty bloody obvious, the copper from the nearest pillar is in the 30 year old vicinity, never been maintained that she is aware of and she has been here 18 years, more than a long enough time to see a maintenance cycle if it existed - it doesn't, wait-for-it-to-break-then-patch-it is the mantra. The copper has been swimming, seen the exposed trench, in garden run-off from the property in front for all of that time.

Fucking ridiculous, we had the chance and pissed it up against a wall because pollies who could not TS their own computers thought they knew better... bollocks, let techs do what techs do and let pollies politely stand against a wall for a low-tech solution - gunfire.

I really do not know if we can recover from the debacle but unless we want to end up using smoke signals and messenger sticks we need to start working on a real network yesterday, not this pile of useless and getting worse cobbled together crap.

Quite often you are right Leo, when you are wrong...fuuuuck - wireless is not the answer and neither is parsimonious bandwidth.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Edited by chrisg

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Hmm,

RouterGaurd looks interesting, be nice if routers came with the concept as their case.

The crossfire is the bigger issue with 5G, you are going to  be hit from several towers just sitting in your home and by others just walking down the road. So, radiation saturation.

There needs to be a defining AUSTRALIAN investigation and report, paid for by the carriers who pre-agree to be bound by the recommendations including don't roll it out.

Never happen - too many dollars involved.

Just give me ubiquitous glass and wi-fi for on the move, there are enough studies to show that the affects of ionising radiation on human tissue rise exponentially both by proximity and by exposure duration.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

RouterGuard looks interesting, be nice if routers came already installed in one.

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I'd rather have the bothersome FTTP than some sketchy 5G transmitter somewhere on a powerpole outside my house. There's not that many mobile full-sized towers in Darwin ... and I think they are "shared" Telstra ones

Edited by Jeruselem

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15 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

Lots of people saying 5G will be better than NBN, mostly true if your NBN isn't FTTP or FTTK but it would overload existing mobile towers anyway so to recuperate costs of upgrading towers 5G will be expensive.

Our Fibre NBN maximum speed (2.488/1.244Mbps) < maximum speed of 5G at present (3Gbps).

(Ignoring CVC and cell configurations)

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19 hours ago, chrisg said:

The crossfire is the bigger issue with 5G, you are going to  be hit from several towers just sitting in your home and by others just walking down the road. So, radiation saturation.
 

What, unlike now?

20 hours ago, chrisg said:

Wireless is all very well but this is a BIG country and with the need for far denser tower concentrations for 5G it is not viable beyond dense population centres in any real sense.

My mother is on a FTTN, fucks up all the time. She has had two routers from T$, God alone knows how many call-outs, but the problem is pretty bloody obvious, the copper from the nearest pillar is in the 30 year old vicinity, never been maintained that she is aware of and she has been here 18 years, more than a long enough time to see a maintenance cycle if it existed - it doesn't, wait-for-it-to-break-then-patch-it is the mantra. The copper has been swimming, seen the exposed trench, in garden run-off from the property in front for all of that time

So what you're saying is if they remediated copper properly like they said they would you'd be fine with fttn.

On 11/02/2019 at 6:21 PM, Leonid said:

The issue isn't luck or technology.

As I outlined clearly earlier - the NBN's original technology was basically the second best technology solution out there. Only Active Ethernet (ie non-GPON) was better, technically.

 

The issue was one of timing vs. cost. It was done at the cusp of the 4G rollout and against all market trends.

Now that we've gone and spent billions, if Optus or Voda or Telstra or TPG take even 20% of the NBN's expected business, the government will need to write off a lot of the NBN's debt. And then even more to make it competitive.

 

The NBN was a world-class white elephant the moment it graduated from being a $4.9b wireless solution.

 

I have virtually no carrier signal in the house. It's pot luck on whether incoming calls even arrive, and usually that's only because of voice over wifi. The FW rollout is fine for its original usage case, but was overused and under engineered.

Optus can crow big ATM about their unlimited downloads mobile broadband offerings after buying out vivid, but they also used to crow big about their land based broadband and then oversubscribed it and stopped caring, so I'm cynical for now on the marketing line.

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