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the_pest_xxvi

Rome 2

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Just picked up my copy. Apologies if there is another thread but I skimmed through 3 pages couldn't find any.

 

For those who are in Sydney. EB Broadway have relocated and today are offering 20% discount on all storewide games. I purchased my pre order of this game at $63 bucks.

 

I will play tutorial and start a Carthage campaign as the Barca dynasty tonight. Cannot wait!

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I pre-ordered my copy as a key from ozgameshop, hopefully that will be sent out sometime today and then I have to wait for my internet to become unthrottled. I think those two things are a blessing in disguise as I have a mid sem tomorrow that I need to study for...

 

So all going well I'll be able to celebrate/commiserate tomorrows exam by crushing some barbarians under the boot of the Republic's finest :P

 

Edit: My code was already in my email, Google had it filed under "Promotions"...

Edited by GoFaster

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Its great but I'm not liking the unit cards. same art, same style, same poses. Difficult to quickly see what unit your want to specifically select in the heat of battle. Unit cards are large and can take up almost half the screen. can't see any minimal UI option

 

 

Other than that any other total war game really except the need for a very powerful graphics card. my GTX shows my age the more and more I push the graphical settings.

 

Best total war if you want variety and scale.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

How is it? i've been eyeing it off and am pretty keen

It's awesome mate. I had to send myself to bed at 1am this morning - a proper 10 hour session.

 

It isn't perfect though. The campaign map is a bit fiddly, and accessing some of the controls on the map takes time to learn. But so far that's my only gripe and you do get used to it after a few hours - although it takes longer than it should.

 

The battles themselves are amazing. There is a tactility to them that wasn't present in Shogun 2, particularly around cavalry which seem much more responsive and less prone to dying en masse like they used to. They seem more easily able to disengage from melee which is nice, and affect the enemy's morale when you hit them from the flanks or rear more than they used to.

 

As for the icon problems, yeah, they are kind of "samey" but, again, once you get used to it it's all good (for the Roman faction at least). I play 2560x1600 and the icons are about the correct size. I have a GTX 680 SLI setup and there is no SLI profile for it yet, which is a bit diappointing, but on a positive note, it autodetected all Ultra settings and it runs pretty well on one GPU. Your mileage may vary.

 

And then there is the setting itself which, in my opinion, is just so incredibly engaging. I love everything Rome but again, your mileage may vary.

 

Get it man, it's pretty freakin' sweet!

 

EDIT:- Oh! The first time you discover the zoomed out strategic map in the battles, you'll think it'sthe single best innovation in the series so far. A god's eye view of where all of your units are - particularly useful in forests.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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Its great but I'm not liking the unit cards. same art, same style, same poses. Difficult to quickly see what unit your want to specifically select in the heat of battle.

 

Agreed. It's somewhat confusing when you're trying to figure out what's what. You kinda figure them out after a while but it still takes a second.

 

Quite a lot of things have changed, some for the better, others, not so much. My biggest complain is that so many things are not very clear. I know they are probably covered in the manual but I always felt Total War was a series where you learn from playing. Playing the prequels helped a little but by no means covered off the important things. For example:

 

Factional politics. It's an interesting twice on Rome 1's openly factional warfare scenario, but it's not immediate what the benefit of having x amount of senators on your side really does for you. Why do I need to spread rumors/assassinate/adopt character X into the family? 10hours of play has not made that any clearer.

 

The build and tech trees can be confusing too. The plate legionnaires is at the end of the combat tech tree which is annoying. And there are so many variations of the same building that you don't quite know what to get.

 

I suppose much of the above will become less of an issue the longer you play and one day I will go "oh so THAT'S why there's an option to assassinate my own general..."

 

 

 

 

 

Combat-wise, I love the new amphibious assault landings. It's like D-Day with swords. I also like the auto resolve now gives you more options of what the outcome will be. So you're not surprised when your auto-resolving force lose 50% men in a relatively easy fight.

 

*Side note, does this game have archers? Cos I haven't seen a single archer so far.

 

 

Any ways the AI isn't too smart. I've seen them mass charge straight down a single lane road to try to get at my town center - which might have worked except the unit penetration is as bad as ever. I have sent 4 Legionnaires in deep attack formation (||||) charging straight into a single sword unit (======) just to see them all bottle up into a milling mass. The charge speed and the relatively weakness of the enemy line should carried them through asap. Also your units have an annoying habit of not closing with a withdrawing unit, allowing them to fall back, regroup and continuing pelting you with missiles.

 

 

I haven't been playing any naval battles tbh cos I typically suck at them and they're a huge investment in terms of money and infrastructure. Luckily it doesn't seem like anyone else in the game bothered either, not even Cathage (which was destroyed and revived twice before I even set foot in Africa).

 

 

 

The two things that really stood out to me in this game is the ability raise Legions as a cohesive unit led by a general rather than just blocks of troops you can shuffle around with no identify of their own. Allowing us to name them, gain attributes and revive them if they are destroyed is a nice touch.

 

And the second thing is the return of Squalor - the bane of every R:TW player's existence. This time it's made worse by the fact that pretty much every economy/administration building causes squalor and so few buildings reduces it. As a result you're permanently researching civil and building tech tree to get the next lot of +order buildings at the cost of military research. And there's no guarantee that you can reduce because you might not have a building block available because the population surplus haven't caught up yet. So you either have to plan our your buildings 20 turns in advance or forever trying to appease/surpress the population.

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I'll be giving this a miss. I tried and tried with Shogun 2 and all I ever got was my ass kicked and dozens of hours of stress. Rome 2 looks way more complex and in depth so it would whip me even harder. Plus Shogun 2 is the only game that's also kicked my system's ass and it sounds like Rome 2 is even worse.

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This def sounds like a game id be interested in, I think i might wait for a patch or 2 before jumping on board. Im wondering if they will fix the AI issues Oracle X has found. These large scale games are usually full of lots of little problems

 

Oracle X - did you run through the tutorials?

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I suppose much of the above will become less of an issue the longer you play and one day I will go "oh so THAT'S why there's an option to assassinate my own general..."

Your generals will rebel against you if they gain enough Gravitas and Influence.

 

*Side note, does this game have archers? Cos I haven't seen a single archer so far.

It does. Lots of them in fact. It just depends on what faction you're playing. The Romans and Greeks don't use them early on in the game. Archery at this time was more of an "Eastern" thing, so I think if you use Egypt or one of the Eastern factions you'll get them quite early on.

 

 

Any ways the AI isn't too smart. I've seen them mass charge straight down a single lane road to try to get at my town center

What level are you playing on? The higher the level you play the "smarter" the AI gets. I was reading an article last night which stated that sort of behaviour has been programed into the easier levels in order to make the game.... easier. I'm playing on Very Hard and the enemy definitely will withdraw and often launches feints with skirmishers.

 

And the second thing is the return of Squalor - the bane of every R:TW player's existence. This time it's made worse by the fact that pretty much every economy/administration building causes squalor and so few buildings reduces it. As a result you're permanently researching civil and building tech tree to get the next lot of +order buildings at the cost of military research. And there's no guarantee that you can reduce because you might not have a building block available because the population surplus haven't caught up yet. So you either have to plan our your buildings 20 turns in advance or forever trying to appease/surpress the population.

So just like the real thing huh?

 

LOL.

 

Yeah, it does get a bit "un-fun" trying to keep squalor and unrest low. Again I suppose it's historical, but whether it makes for a good game is open for debate.

 

Good write up Oracle!

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yes xnatex I did. But that only covers the minimal basics of the game.

 

 

I'm playing on normal difficulty. I don't think making deliberately make the AI more stupid is a good way to lower the difficulty level. Make them more cunning to raise the difficulty, yes, but making them retarded destroys the feel of the game and make it unbelievable.

 

 

 

I haven't had any problems with my generals tbh. Perhaps I have to wait for latter game.

 

With regards to squalor, I think there are two possible solutions: 1) balance out your buildings in every province so there's enough +order buildings to negate the +squalor buildings then fill in the rest with trade/culture buildings. Even if this means under-developing some of the buildings.

 

or 2) designate specific provinces as heavy industry provinces, fill them with +squalor buildings and always keep a massive garrison in that province.

 

It would be interesting to see someone create a build list for option 1). I actually have several provinces that are at 100% happiness for long periods of time so I might throw something up here.

 

 

Also found out that unlike in R1, crushing a rebellion in an unhappy province does NOT reduce the unhappiness level. Unless the underlying problem is resolved, the rebellion will start off again in 1-2 turns. That doesn't really make sense. Nor does the fact that having high level barracks in the settlement causes squalor without providing any +order effect? Again, a departure from the other TW games.

 

 

oh yeah my current peeve is that you can't attack an enemy settlement if it's under a naval blockade by another faction! This has made things very difficult for me sometimes when I need to finish off an enemy and unite a province / free up a front, but can't unless I actively attack and destroy the blockaders whom I might have good relations/treaties with!

 

This is a huge oversight imo. Because I can see no logical reason why a naval blockade would have such an effect. And I can see no other way to get around this problem right now. :-(

Edited by Oracle X

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

oh yeah my current peeve is that you can't attack an enemy settlement if it's under a naval blockade by another faction! This has made things very difficult for me sometimes when I need to finish off an enemy and unite a province / free up a front, but can't unless I actively attack and destroy the blockaders whom I might have good relations/treaties with!

 

This is a huge oversight imo. Because I can see no logical reason why a naval blockade would have such an effect. And I can see no other way to get around this problem right now. :-(

There's a patch due tomorrow here they're fixing both technical and game-play issues.

 

Hopefully it's in that.

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yes xnatex I did. But that only covers the minimal basics of the game.

 

 

I'm playing on normal difficulty. I don't think making deliberately make the AI more stupid is a good way to lower the difficulty level. Make them more cunning to raise the difficulty, yes, but making them retarded destroys the feel of the game and make it unbelievable.

Its a pretty standard way to make AI in RTS games tho. Usually the very top teir difficulty is the AI has an ability to slightly cheat, the 2nd hardest difficulty is the AI in full power, then when you get down to normal that pretty much means easy these days and is designed so you can play the game and win.

 

Did you play any of the Starcraft or command and conquer games? they where like that. Normal difficulty on SC2 was a joke and ruined the experience for me, had to re-do it on hard before I could enjoy it. Could pretty much go AFK for awhile and still win.

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yes xnatex I did. But that only covers the minimal basics of the game.

 

 

I'm playing on normal difficulty. I don't think making deliberately make the AI more stupid is a good way to lower the difficulty level. Make them more cunning to raise the difficulty, yes, but making them retarded destroys the feel of the game and make it unbelievable.

 

 

 

I haven't had any problems with my generals tbh. Perhaps I have to wait for latter game.

 

With regards to squalor, I think there are two possible solutions: 1) balance out your buildings in every province so there's enough +order buildings to negate the +squalor buildings then fill in the rest with trade/culture buildings. Even if this means under-developing some of the buildings.

 

or 2) designate specific provinces as heavy industry provinces, fill them with +squalor buildings and always keep a massive garrison in that province.

 

It would be interesting to see someone create a build list for option 1). I actually have several provinces that are at 100% happiness for long periods of time so I might throw something up here.

 

 

Also found out that unlike in R1, crushing a rebellion in an unhappy province does NOT reduce the unhappiness level. Unless the underlying problem is resolved, the rebellion will start off again in 1-2 turns. That doesn't really make sense. Nor does the fact that having high level barracks in the settlement causes squalor without providing any +order effect? Again, a departure from the other TW games.

 

 

oh yeah my current peeve is that you can't attack an enemy settlement if it's under a naval blockade by another faction! This has made things very difficult for me sometimes when I need to finish off an enemy and unite a province / free up a front, but can't unless I actively attack and destroy the blockaders whom I might have good relations/treaties with!

 

This is a huge oversight imo. Because I can see no logical reason why a naval blockade would have such an effect. And I can see no other way to get around this problem right now. :-(

Interesting, it sounds like they've fundamentally changed the squalor mechanic then. In RTW1 it was a simple function of population in excess of a limit set by settlement level. What buildings (apart from Government buildings) were present had no effect (although order and happiness buildings could counteract the negative happiness caused by the squalor). This did mean that in quite a few regions building farms (+ pop growth rate) was actually a bad idea in the long run, especially since you couldn't destroy them, but did help you to get things up and running faster. It also meant that committing genocide against your own populace was a common late game strategy. I take it squalor in RTW2 is created by industrial and military buildings much like pollution in Civ? That will certainly change my build priority.

 

I should note that I'm still mulling over buying RTW2. I've played and enjoyed every TW game since RTW1, and the expansions to RTW1 and MTW2, but I might hold out until a sale. Then again, I'm not likely to see better than $56 (GMG, 20% off + Greek states) for a while.

Edited by DaCraw

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"I take it squalor in RTW2 is created by industrial and military buildings much like pollution in Civ?"

 

That's correct. The following types of buildings create squalor:

 

Tier 3+ industrial buildings

Tier 3+ food buildings like farm, ranch and fishmonger

Tier 3+ military baracks

Tier 3+ administration buildings

 

There's a huge jump from +4 to +12 squalor between 2 tiers which is ridiculous.

 

This means you will be heavily dependent on things like wine shops and trading ports to generate revenue. The biggest problem is the food. Higher tier buildings all need a ton of food. While at the same time, your options of +order are limited to religious buildings, sanitation buildings like aquaducts, +order research and army presence in the province. It doesn't help that the +squalor values of a building greatly outweighs the +order value of another building so your shiny new temple can't even offset one farm nevermind 2.

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Here is a snip from Dave's Article on the main site

 

" the game you're playing now is really not the final game. A lot of reviewers are finding Rome II the most disappointing Total War yet, citing crashes, poor AI, and slow performance, not to mention a lack of balancing across the board. With weekly patches set to be a regular part of the game's early release, it seems that it could well be a game to wait a month or so before buying."

 

 

 

:/

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Here is a snip from Dave's Article on the main site

 

" the game you're playing now is really not the final game. A lot of reviewers are finding Rome II the most disappointing Total War yet, citing crashes, poor AI, and slow performance, not to mention a lack of balancing across the board. With weekly patches set to be a regular part of the game's early release, it seems that it could well be a game to wait a month or so before buying."

 

 

 

:/

I have experienced crashes, lagging and instability with every total war title except[/i] rome 2. For once I seem to be one of the lucky ones who can run the game. Empire was a complete fucking disaster for me for the first 3 months I owned it...

 

Hopefully the patch doesn't fuck me...

 

-X

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I've had crashes too. Then I tuned the graphics down to ultra and set it to run in windows mode which allows me to do another stuff when while for turn to end. :-)

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I take it squalor in RTW2 is created by industrial and military buildings much like pollution in Civ? That will certainly change my build priority.

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have to say that the game has been pretty much flawless for me so far, even with the lack of SLI.

 

You can tool tip over each building and it will tell you how much squalor it will add to the region. I can't remember off the top of my head what if any specific types contribute to the total, but I have found that by using this method you can "plan" squalor according to what is happening.

 

One thing I simply cannot get my head around is food. It's easy enough to see what buildings are contributing to your food total, but I cannot for the life of me work out how consumption is calculated.

 

Can anyone help?

 

 

$56 (GMG, 20% off + Greek states).

That's a hell of a good deal!

 

I'd get it. I'm finding it really fun. Even the tutorials were great to play. The only piece of advice I would give is to turn the difficulty up to Hard or Very Hard, then the AI seems to sort itself out. The new Line of Sight system is outstanding and really creates some tactical depth. In past TW games there was no point scouting. Now it's essential.

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I've had one crash to desktop so far but that's only with 3 or so hours of play.

 

Does the Marius Reforms still occur semi-randomly like in Rome? That was one if the things I really enjoyed was the change from the older style troops to the ones I'm familiar with from books and movies currently the legionaries just look like another unlock in a tech tree.

Edited by GoFaster

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Food consumption works the same way as squalor.

 

Certain tier 3 buildings causes food consumption. So basically 90% of your building will:

 

1) consume food but decrease squalor (e.g. temples, baths)

2) generate food but increase squalor (e.g. farms and ranches)

3) consume food AND increase squalor (e.g. settlement building and barracks)

 

once they hit tier 3.

 

So it's very much a delicate balancing act.

 

 

 

One trick I learned is that exempting one of your provinces from tax effects food production as well as taxes. Some provinces will generate additional food if you exempt them from tax while other will consume more food. So if you ever find yourself going into the red in food, don't panic, play around with tax exemptions in you provinces to see if you can get more food that way while hopefully don't lose much tax income.

 

I don't know exactly how it works but I think food counts as tax so if it's a food generating province, they will generate more surplus (food) if you exempt them from tax. Or maybe it's the opposite, if you exempt a heavy food consuming province from tax they will consume less food?

 

Also I'm not sure what exactly "wealth" is. It seems a vague concept. Wealth = good but what exactly does it affect? Is it just taxable income?

 

Damn I really need to read the manual.. :-(

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've had one crash to desktop so far but that's only with 3 or so hours of play.

 

Does the Marius Reforms still occur semi-randomly like in Rome? That was one if the things I really enjoyed was the change from the older style troops to the ones I'm familiar with from books and movies currently the legionaries just look like another unlock in a tech tree.

 

No it's not an "event". If you check out the tech tree you will see the last research in the military tree will give you Plate Legionnaires which is what the "movie" legionnaires are.

 

I know it sucks to have to wait that long cos most of your research will be devoted to civil and construction trees to combat squalor and corruption so it's really more of an end game unit. But the standard legionnaires are more than strong enough to crush your average barbarian enemy. hell I still have an army of Hastatii (all lvl3 gold vets)

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Damn I really need to read the manual.. :-(

I know right..... but is there one?

 

All I've managed to find is the Encyclopaedia, which doesn't really explain game concepts very well.

 

As for wealth, yeah I think it's just "Gold". So if it says "Generates +40 Wealth", you get +40 in your treasury next turn.

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I know it's a really dumb thing at say as the series is called Total War but I wish there was a little more to do on the strategy map, just now I went to war with the green guys to the north of Rome because I had ran out of things to do, that and I needed more money to support my needlessly large army/fleet.

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Ok this game is officially fucked.

 

My campaign is now dead in the water due to a severe crash bug that crashes the game every time the turn finishes calculating AI moves. I've tried switching between resolutions and fullscreen/windowed mode but nothing working which leaves me to believe that the save game might be fucked. This is extremely frustrating because Rome 1 had the same fucking problem. If basically means that your campaign is gone unless you switch back to a way earlier save game.

 

Unfucking believable. How the fuck did they fuck this so badly? Shogun 2 had none of these problems.

 

 

 

Also the stupid AI Siege Suicide bug is also back. I just watched, a full Legion run up under a wall and stood their until the tower archers finished them off.... woooo...

 

 

 

Before the game fucked up on me, I discovered the following things:

 

1) your champion can help with +order

 

2) when your Imperium hits a certain point, there will be Civil War!! And unlike in Rome 1, you would have no warning of this what so ever until it happens. All of a sudden there would be a new faction - Senate Loyalists on the map with a bunch of small armies in one of your provinces. This is despite my continuous effort to weaken the other houses so I have nfi what that's about.

 

3) what's up with the removal of road upgrades? Nowadays you can cover an entire province in a turn as long as you use the double time. It's made things a lot easier but kinda took the challenge out of things. now that you only need one army to cover the entire Gaul.

 

This is really NOT a finished product.

Edited by Oracle X

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Ok this game is officially fucked.

 

My campaign is now dead in the water due to a severe crash bug that crashes the game every time the turn finishes calculating AI moves. I've tried switching between resolutions and fullscreen/windowed mode but nothing working which leaves me to believe that the save game might be fucked. This is extremely frustrating because Rome 1 had the same fucking problem. If basically means that your campaign is gone unless you switch back to a way earlier save game.

 

Unfucking believable. How the fuck did they fuck this so badly? Shogun 2 had none of these problems.

 

 

 

Also the stupid AI Siege Suicide bug is also back. I just watched, a full Legion run up under a wall and stood their until the tower archers finished them off.... woooo...

 

 

 

Before the game fucked up on me, I discovered the following things:

 

1) your champion can help with +order

 

2) when your Imperium hits a certain point, there will be Civil War!! And unlike in Rome 1, you would have no warning of this what so ever until it happens. All of a sudden there would be a new faction - Senate Loyalists on the map with a bunch of small armies in one of your provinces. This is despite my continuous effort to weaken the other houses so I have nfi what that's about.

 

3) what's up with the removal of road upgrades? Nowadays you can cover an entire province in a turn as long as you use the double time. It's made things a lot easier but kinda took the challenge out of things. now that you only need one army to cover the entire Gaul.

 

This is really NOT a finished product.

The road technology is automatically upgraded based on population density and I think the army stances are a huge improvement. Forced march does come with -50% morale and you cannot initiate attacks, so it's kind of a double edged sword.

 

I did encounter the end turn crash, but after I moved another unit before I hit end turn it went away. Every TW game I have played has done that to me. Very annoying.

 

Other than that, I'm pretty impressed so far. Haven't had a civil war yet, but I look forward to casting some motherfucking die and crossing the shit out of that rubicon.

 

-X

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Unfortunately moving units around doesn't fix my problem.

 

And there will be no Crossing of Rubicon unless Caesar had no fucking idea there was an Roman army coming for him when he crossed too.

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