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Guest xyzzy frobozz

The Australian car industry

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Euro makers have US plants but I think you'll find there was government assistance (from the US) in many cases.

Also, it's a sufficiently large market for the mainstream brands at least like BMW & VW to be able to sell sufficient numbers there and export to adjacent markets.

 

In Aus, we're also at a disadvantage to some degree in that we're part of the RHD minority. In the modern day, designing for both configurations is a lot easier than it might have been 20 years ago, but still adds somewhat to the development cost.

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So basically, big investment for as much automation as possible, and then hope the brand managers don't get caught out again with market/segment movements?

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Probably Nich but what XYZ says about small cars is true, there is an emergent gulf in the market straight from small vehicles to SUVs, seems to me the bigger cars are losing ground, especially in the cities, fleets seem to be where I still see them.

 

It's a big investment, not sure it will happen.

 

Cheers

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I CBF reading the whole thread.

 

I think tariffs would be a lot better than subsidies. Make the other countries pay, not the Australian people.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I CBF reading the whole thread.

 

I think tariffs would be a lot better than subsidies. Make the other countries pay, not the Australian people.

Why does none of that surprise me?

 

So basically, big investment for as much automation as possible, and then hope the brand managers don't get caught out again with market/segment movements?

If the manufacturers are more plugged into the global market they'll be less affected by those sorts of movements.

 

 

Euro makers have US plants but I think you'll find there was government assistance (from the US) in many cases.

Also, it's a sufficiently large market for the mainstream brands at least like BMW & VW to be able to sell sufficient numbers there and export to adjacent markets.

 

In Aus, we're also at a disadvantage to some degree in that we're part of the RHD minority. In the modern day, designing for both configurations is a lot easier than it might have been 20 years ago, but still adds somewhat to the development cost.

You're spot on with regards to American car manufacturers. Although a lot of it has to do with the fact that the UAW simply won't allow large numbers of cars to be imported to the U.S.A.

 

With regards to RHD/LHD, it's not really a concern these days. Cars these days are built on modular platforms that are designed from the outset to be either. That said, Falcon/Territory was not which was a large part of the problem. The only places to which Falcon was officially exported, if my memory serves correctly, was New Zealand and South Africa.

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NZ has been an export market practically forever - in most cases complete cars, although fuel prices there generally saw the larger ones further down the top 10 seller list than they were here.

 

RHD/LHD is still an issue - especially with front-drive cars. Japan has an advantage in that practically everything they design is destined for LHD export markets but they still cater for their RHD domestic market as well as the rest of us in that minority.

 

I probably already mentioned it, but US managerial infuence over here at Ford and GM is often destructive. They don't even properly understand their own market, let alone ours.

 

The other thing is that they tend to think trends over there will be repeated here but it's often not the case.

Regardless, it's a popular myth that all Yanks drive gas-guzzlers but for a number of years the Honda Accord was the top selling passenger car there (ignoring Ford F100 which technically is a truck).

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no no no, ninemsn answered the question with a simple yes/no poll on whether the car industry should continue to be supported and most dickwads answered no. So there, problem solved, no we shouldn't support it.

 

(I'm with xyzzy on this by the way)

 

And its not just the car industry that struggles either its a majority of Australian manufacturing that's struggling. The problem is the Australian manufacturers are put at a disadvantage through the importers receiving generally favourable importing terms when they've paid someone $1.25A an hour somewhere else to make the item, compared to $25/$30A per hour for labour here. We're priced out of our own market. Meanwhile we have high labour costs and higher costs to export due to shit negotiation for trade by the gov so we're at even more of a disadvantage overseas. (I don't really know much about this stuff but that's my take on it)

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A buck 25 an hour? Some of those Chinese factories have kids putting electronic junk together and they get maybe 80 cents a day.

 

Level playing field - exists as some fantasy in some minds. Not forgetting other overheads like superannuation, worker's comp insurance and the like.

Then throw in stuff like rent where Aus manufacturers might well be paying as much per square metre as the Chinese pay for a work area 50 times bigger.

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80c/day is meaningless, because we're only seeing it in terms of what we earn a day. Has to be compared to cost of living in other places, etc. I've no issue with people in other countries earning SFA in AUD as long as it's reasonable/enough to live on for them in their own economy.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

80c/day is meaningless, because we're only seeing it in terms of what we earn a day. Has to be compared to cost of living in other places, etc. I've no issue with people in other countries earning SFA in AUD as long as it's reasonable/enough to live on for them in their own economy.

Well put it this way.

 

Would they ever be able to buy the car that they build?

 

No.

 

First Commodores are rolling out of US Dealerships this week.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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Would they ever be able to buy the car that they build?

 

No.

That is a dumb metric, Xyzzy. There's no way in hell I could have afforded to buy the Southern Cross replica, but I helped build it - and I was paid a very adequate wage for my efforts.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Would they ever be able to buy the car that they build?

 

No.

That is a dumb metric, Xyzzy. There's no way in hell I could have afforded to buy the Southern Cross replica, but I helped build it - and I was paid a very adequate wage for my efforts.

 

It's only a dumb metric if you make a similarly dumb comparisons!

 

There's probably a few factory workers at Boeing that can't afford a 747 either... I can only assume that the existence of only one Titanic probably meant that it was out of financial reach for your average welder on the project... But that's not the object of the exercise. We're talking about the relative affordability of a consumer good.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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I think it's an entirely fair metric. And comparing some one off piece of art or similar to a mass-produced consumer product is dumb.

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I think it's an entirely fair metric. And comparing some one off piece of art or similar to a mass-produced consumer product is dumb.

In the environments under discussion, those items (cars) are rare luxury items. For example, China: whilst many Chinese are wealthy enough to own a car (and far more), most are not. Nor could the Chinese economy handle it currently if they were to magically acquire that level of wealth.

 

I'm all for the wealth disparity being flattened, but it's a) not currently possible, and b) not in my pervue.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I'm all for the wealth disparity being flattened, but it's a) not currently possible, and b) not in my pervue.

But neither of those things are being discussed.

 

What was being discussed is whether an "auto worker" in China is on the equivalent wage as one in Australia, currency adjusted.

 

The answer is quite clearly no.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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Are you talking about export-Western cars being made in China, or their domestic production lines too?

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I'm all for the wealth disparity being flattened, but it's a) not currently possible, and b) not in my pervue.

But neither of those things are being discussed.

 

What was being discussed is whether an "auto worker" in China is on the equivalent wage as one in Australia, currency adjusted.

 

The answer is quite clearly no.

 

So, you're saying that the fact that 'our' auto-workers are paid a lot more than Chinese auto-workers is not a disparity? I see.

 

Are you talking about export-Western cars being made in China, or their domestic production lines too?

Either/both. Even their domestic car market is a fraction of their entire population.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

So, you're saying that the fact that 'our' auto-workers are paid a lot more than Chinese auto-workers is not a disparity? I see.

You see? I'm sorry, I don't see.

 

I really don't understand the point that you're making. Clearly that isn't what I'm saying. You're going to have to make yourself a little clearer because I'm missing your point here and how the issue of disparity relates to the conversation.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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