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Director

Vaccine makers to introduce Cholera to Australia

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errrm, OK, does this right to you guy?

 

Link

 

Australia Determined To Forcibly Vaccinate By Intentional and Controlled Release of Aerosolized GMO Vaccine

 

 

The Office of the Gene Technology Regulator (OGTR) is on its way to approve a licence application from PaxVax Australia (PaxVax) for the intentional release of a GMO vaccine consisting of live bacteria into the environment in Queensland, South Australia, Western Australia and Victoria.

 

According to the regulator, it qualifies as a limited and controlled release under section 50A of the Gene Technology Act 2000 (the Act).

 

PaxVax is seeking approval to conduct the clinical trial of a genetically modified live bacterial vaccine against cholera. Once underway the trial is expected to be completed within one year, with trial sites selected from local government areas (LGAs) in Queensland, South Australia, Victoria and Western Australia. PaxVax has proposed a number of control measures they say will restrict the spread and persistence of the GM vaccine and its introduced genetic material, however there is always a possiblity of these restrictions failing and infecting wildlife and ecosystems.

 

I didn't even realise we HAD a cholera problem here...obviously we soon will but I mean, WTF? Am I missing something?

 

 

(Andinb4 someone has a waa-waa cos they don't like the source. http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publi...26ebnotific-htm )

 

 

Hmm, OK reading through the PDF I is now confused.

 

The OTGR website says "The Office of the Gene Technology Regulator (OGTR) has received a licence application from PaxVax Australia Pty Ltd (PaxVax) for the intentional release of a genetically modified (GM) bacterial vaccine into the environment (DIR 126), which qualifies as a limited and controlled release under section 50A of the Gene Technology Act 2000 (the Act)."

 

...into the environment.

 

Yet one of the PDF's linked on their site says:

 

That it will only be injected into volunteers in labs.

 

OK, so maybe crisis averted?....stupid government websites.

Edited by Director

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Ummmm.

 

They've received an APPLICATION for it.

It's not even up to public consultation phase.

 

I could put an application in to improve herd immunity by killing all members of the AVN. The "Application" is in and MUST be published. Do you think it will be accepted.

 

NEXT:

The environment. Where the hell did they get the idea that it was going to be SPRAYED EVERYWHERE OMG WTF BBQ.

Let's check PAXVAX.

 

Lessee.. ORAL vaccination.

 

Yup. That's right.

 

It's being released into the environment (You know. Like SOCIAL environment. Not the air.)

 

For an oral vaccination to be administered it requires consent.

 

The only and I mean ONLY places where they talk about Aerosol Vaccination is on crackpot sites that also endorse "Chemtrails"

 

My Summary:

*YAWN*

 

AD

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Ummmm.

 

They've received an APPLICATION for it.

It's not even up to public consultation phase.

 

I could put an application in to improve herd immunity by killing all members of the AVN. The "Application" is in and MUST be published. Do you think it will be accepted.

 

NEXT:

The environment. Where the hell did they get the idea that it was going to be SPRAYED EVERYWHERE OMG WTF BBQ.

Let's check PAXVAX.

 

Lessee.. ORAL vaccination.

 

Yup. That's right.

 

It's being released into the environment (You know. Like SOCIAL environment. Not the air.)

 

For an oral vaccination to be administered it requires consent.

 

The only and I mean ONLY places where they talk about Aerosol Vaccination is on crackpot sites that also endorse "Chemtrails"

 

My Summary:

*YAWN*

 

AD

+1

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It's being released into the environment (You know. Like SOCIAL environment. Not the air.)

Yeah yeah, I got it eventually (see my edit), I still say it's a stupid choice of words though. :)

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OK. I got you pre-edit.

 

My big issue was "How the hell would an aerosol vaccine work?"

 

How could you guarantee that a person would receive the appropriate dose? Vaccines are medicine. They are carefully controlled. You don't just "Whack it in". You need to know gender, age, nationality, weight etc and then dose accordingly. To just 'cropdust it', how would it work? It wouldn't is the answer. There is no way you could do it. There is no scientific body that would support this.

 

AD

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OK. I got you pre-edit.

 

My big issue was "How the hell would an aerosol vaccine work?"

 

How could you guarantee that a person would receive the appropriate dose? Vaccines are medicine. They are carefully controlled. You don't just "Whack it in". You need to know gender, age, nationality, weight etc and then dose accordingly. To just 'cropdust it', how would it work? It wouldn't is the answer. There is no way you could do it. There is no scientific body that would support this.

 

AD

probably release it at Office parties and Social gatherings just let everyone know how much scientists suck.

 

Look at what they did to the rabbits and the way they got diseased ,it spread everywhere even on the islands.

 

Good thing about it at least stockmarkets would be happy with Toilet Paper sales.

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So you could guarantee that everyone would get x mg of the vaccine? nope. Not going to happen.

 

That's not a trial. A trial consists of eliminating as many variables as possible to get an answer.

 

To release it wild like that ADDS variables. Not suitable nor acceptable for a trial. It'd be canned in 0.1 nanoseconds.

 

As for vaccines giving you the disease? Sorry. That's Anti-Vax talking. Not science.

 

AD

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What a load of rubbish.

 

Cholera vaccinations were always horrible, MADE you sick, then it was recognised that so long as you keep well hydrated it won't be comfortable with projectile from both ends but you will survive - it's dehydration that kills in the third world.

 

A pharmacist friend contracted cholera in India back in the 70s. As he put it he felt it coming on, went and stocked up on bottled boiled water pointed his ass at the toilet his mouth at the basin, fasted, drank water continually and it was gone in about 36 hours.

 

I've seen the effects of cholera and of the vaccination, the "cure" is worse than the disease and never of much use in the Third world, killed more than it saved by tipping them over the edge without access to clean water.

 

Cheers

Edited by chrisg

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"were" always horrible. The injected ones WERE hideous. They're oral now and the side effects have gone down. The injected was with a live virus (IIRC. It's based on memory here). Oral is a de-activated virus.

 

Cholera vaccines need lots of research. Currently, their effectiveness is at about 50% (A little higher. I think it was something like 58% when I last read into it a few years ago). This means that for it to be effective in an endemic area, it really needs 100% vaccination.

 

This in part explains why they want to do a trial in Australia. We don't have cholera. The virus is deactivated and as such would not cause an outbreak (Again. Please ignore naturopaths and AVN nutters. I have little patience for them. Especially lately. Someone I know about and is close to me got given some incredibly dangerous information from a Naturopath. And what do you know. Modern medicine saved their life. Naturopath would have killed them.. Naturally). The reason for Australia? We have no inherent immunity in us. Any results would be a true and 'raw' result. If it proved (for example) 70% effective, then in places where it's endemic, it would likely be higher due to the locals inherent natural resistance.

 

AD

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Hmm,

 

Don't think I want to be a guinea pig AD.

 

We do get cholera in Australia, not often but there was an outbreak here not so long ago and I've heard of one in Darwin. That's the 747 vector.

 

The old vaccine was supposedly "weakened" but still live -I'm not going to forget when I was in travel a client who at very short-notice needed to go to a family tragedy and a heap of vaccinations were required, most of them I knew no issue, cholera had him sweating at my desk and making toilet rushes. These days you don't need much in the way of vaccinations at all to travel. I hate to think what the jabs did to me, been some bloody strange places but been back and didn't even need my vax card.

 

I utterly agree with you on the herd requirement and my kids have had the obvious ones, but viruses we actually do have on the run, the need is declining but still needs careful attention, a bit scary how some of the old scourges have made a reappearance through neglect and misinformation.

 

I have a very open mind on alternative/naturopath - so does my doc, its problem is it is self-regulated.

 

To give an example, I have/had a cataract, not really a biggee, stats say we idiots who spend too much time in the stratosphere get them more, I was sort of resigned to the trivial op, just personal squeamish, but my wife suggested I try some cellular medication, Sisel from the US. Very little about it around but the ingredients are not going to hurt so been taking it once a day for 2 1/2 months. Cataract has regressed so much that the eye affected is now better than the other one and that one is on the mend, my optician is thinking of changing professions if this proves to be typical.

 

Currently a mixed blessing, need new glasses, my eyes have improved so much my script is all wrong, but that's not something that bothers me much if at all.

 

To put it in perspective I don't wear glasses at the pc anymore and routinely forget to put them on when leaving the house. That has had me turn back, distance vision is different, but overall a huge improvement.

 

 

My doc, not a young guy, says it best, alternative can be a different and dangerous journey, but so can conventional, having been messed over by BP meds and seen the benefits of oxy therapy I can only agree, and so does he. He told me point blank with my wife who tolerates few drugs, there is nothing to lose from seeing what they may know.

 

Your example is a not good outcome, seen that happen, the best combination is a conventional medicine approach with an alternative in close consultation, which my doc is pretty relaxed about.

 

No real absolute answers, we know far more about what is outside our bodies than what is going on inside when things are not in harmony and we do not know everything about anything much.

 

Cheers

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Agree in part. Sometimes, 'alternative' medicine is quite excellent as a support to conventional. There are many cases where it's beneficial. Acupunture for pain relief on joints has proven to be very effective when combined with physiotherapy, but acupunture alone won't treat the joint problem.

 

Cholera vaccine nowadays is pretty safe. Hell. I had it in 1995 when I went on holidays in Vietnam. No side effects. I had a safe and enjoyable holiday in Vietnam. Even with only 50% effectiveness, this was far better than 0% by not having it.

 

AD

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I could put an application in to improve herd immunity by killing all members of the AVN.

 

 

AD

Doood nearly spat my coffee all over the monitor.

 

Look at what they did to the rabbits and the way they got diseased ,it spread everywhere even on the islands.

Oh FFS code, that was a deliberate release of Myxomatosis via the rabbit flea and mosquito vectors to try and control the rotten bloody things. It didn't just spread to the islands, infected rabbits where deliberately released on those islands.

 

The same goes for the rabbit calicivirus, although that did get "accidentally" released before testing had finished.

Both diseases are rabbit specific and their releases where a damn bloody good thing IMO.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Look at what they did to the rabbits and the way they got diseased ,it spread everywhere even on the islands.

Oh FFS code, that was a deliberate release of Myxomatosis via the rabbit flea and mosquito vectors to try and control the rotten bloody things. It didn't just spread to the islands, infected rabbits where deliberately released on those islands.

 

The same goes for the rabbit calicivirus, although that did get "accidentally" released before testing had finished.

Both diseases are rabbit specific and their releases where a damn bloody good thing IMO.

 

Perhaps he's too young to remember the five yearly rabbit plagues that devastated agriculture up until the late '80's.

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I'll still say wacky scientists.

 

They have this THING about testing stuff on, like, people before giving it out in large doses.

 

Not sure I want any part of that thanks very much.

 

Cholera is a killer and a mass murderer at that. Not sure we should be working on a vaccine for stuff like that. And testing it on Aussies because, you know, we take vaccines and all that - not sure it should be allowed.

 

I'll stick with my nice safe untested medicine thanks.

 

:p

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... Ummm. And who said it was Stage 1 trials?

 

How do you know that this wasn't final stage trials before release? It didn't mention it in any articles Chaos.

 

Further, they are NOT releasing Cholera. They are releasing a deactivated version of it. (ie. You don't get cholera from having it). It makes sense to give it to people who are not exposed to cholera because you need a baseline.. A control group. It's good science. It may not fit with the AVN, but hell. I've taken part in these trials before. You don't do it willy nilly. You get asked. Then you do paperwork to acknowledge the risks (A researcher + doctor sit you down and explain it all). You then have a diary you have to fill out every day for a couple of weeks. You then go in and get a blood test.

 

In my case, I had to go in for several jabs and do about 2 months of diary. (Temperature. Swelling at injection site? Redness? Pain? Symptoms? Behaviour changes? Tiredness? Sleep?)

 

It's very rigorous. And all so you can have a bird flu vaccine if it ever comes to be needed (in my case).

 

AD

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Sometimes, 'alternative' medicine is quite excellent as a support to conventional.

I like Tim Minchin's take on alternative medicine...

 

"You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.".

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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Sort of.

 

Acupuncture is still alternative. They are only just beginning to understand 'why'. It produces an antihistamine response.. I can't recall sure what type. I think it's type 3 or 4. It's a localized anti-inflammatory which is very targetted because of the nature of acupuncture. BUT, it's still not fully understood. So.. Is it medicine yet? It's not understood. It works. And this supports "Alternative medicine". But it's not "Medicine".

 

I appreciate what you say. I'm in the same boat as you. I believe homeopathy is WATER. I believe 'natural' is not always better. I *know* that herbal remedies have side-effects.

 

I also know that much of modern medicine is derived from 'natural' (ha!) sources. Penicillin is a mould. Aspirin is derived from willow trees. So on and so forth.

 

AD

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Sometimes, 'alternative' medicine is quite excellent as a support to conventional.

I like Tim Minchin's take on alternative medicine...

 

"You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.".

 

If I've got a head ache I'll go grab a Panadol ... if I want to ease sunburn, ripping open an aloe vera frond for the gel is the best thing ever.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Sometimes, 'alternative' medicine is quite excellent as a support to conventional.

I like Tim Minchin's take on alternative medicine...

 

"You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.".

 

If I've got a head ache I'll go grab a Panadol ... if I want to ease sunburn, ripping open an aloe vera frond for the gel is the best thing ever.

 

Yep.

 

I'd consider both to be medicine. I personally don't know the mechanism of how/why aloe vera works on sunburn, but I'm sure it's very well understood from a scientific perspective. Therefore I consider aloe vera on sunburn to be not so much alternative medice as just.... medicine!

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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But is what you consider to be medicine... Medicine... ?

 

I gave the example of acupuncture because it's a good example. (Aloe-vera is an oil that helps to retain moisture in the skin, whilst being slightly analgesic, thus providing relief and assisting with rehydration of the burnt area, but PLEASE do not apply it to major burns as it is oil based and can cause more harm). Acupuncture (For muscle inflammation. Not for "Imma gonna cure cancer" crap. But for inflammation) has been shown to work, but we don't know why yet. Is it medicine? It works. But we don't 100% understand why. It's still slightly nebulous whilst we learn more about it. Side effects? placebo? trials? These are all needed for it to be medicine.

 

AD

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Cholera is a killer and a mass murderer at that. Not sure we should be working on a vaccine for stuff like that. And testing it on Aussies because, you know, we take vaccines and all that - not sure it should be allowed.

Er... The deadliest diseases are the ones you most want a vaccine for - that and the ones that cause most cost to society. That's why polio got so much attention so early.

 

There's a 'flu vaccine because 'flu costs a LOT of money every year in lost work days, and still does manage to kill people occasionally.

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Sorry guys. I guess my sarcasm smilies were not in evidence enough.

 

AD - I'm pretty sure it is near final stage trials. I was reading about it the other day (linky forgotten), but if it's the same vax it's a pretty big improvement on previous vaxs.

 

Cybes - yeah, I know. It would be a good thing. :)

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