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LKC master

christianity and denominations

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let us look at christianity and see how there are many different denominations.

i have currently been thinking about which denominations are valid and which are not, which would get one into heaven and which would not. also which priests/ministers are valid.

and just the current state of christianity at the moment.

 

im currently anglican but because of school have had alot of exsposure to catholicism.

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Dude, none of them are valid.

 

Trying to pick the valid one is like trying to find the virgin in the brothel.

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i have currently been thinking about which denominations are valid and which are not, which would get one into heaven and which would not. also which priests/ministers are valid.

 

A reason to downright hate religion, full stop.

 

Judgemental, hyprocritical arseholes.

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"i have currently been thinking about which denominations are valid and which are not, which would get one into heaven and which would not."

 

lols. How about reading the Bible instead? ;-)

 

Romans 10

 

"But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

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i have currently been thinking about which denominations are valid and which are not, which would get one into heaven and which would not. also which priests/ministers are valid.

 

A reason to downright hate religion, full stop.

 

Judgemental, hyprocritical arseholes.

 

 

 

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAAAA! I might make that my new tag,

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lols. How about reading the Bible instead? ;-)

 

Romans 10

I thought the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally?

 

Rob.

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now i must clear a few things up. bad OP on my part but robzy as far as i am concerned christianity is the only true religion and i would never stop beliveing in it. (would you ever abandon your judaism?)

 

director. i do read my bible and know that belief is all that is needed but i have thinking lately about the how the denominations that came from the reformation should be looked at. seeing catholics see only catholicism and orthodoxy as valid faiths.

 

i personally see all denominations as valid except for the ones that break away from christ's teachings (mormons and the like who follow there leaders from the 1800s)

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(would you ever abandon your judaism?)

I kind of have. Why should I believe in the Judaeo-Christian God (yeah, I still kind of feel dirty saying Y....h) when there is no more reason than believing in Zeus?

 

Rob.

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now i must clear a few things up. bad OP on my part but robzy as far as i am concerned christianity is the only true religion and i would never stop beliveing in it. (would you ever abandon your judaism?)

 

director. i do read my bible and know that belief is all that is needed but i have thinking lately about the how the denominations that came from the reformation should be looked at. seeing catholics see only catholicism and orthodoxy as valid faiths.

 

i personally see all denominations as valid except for the ones that break away from christ's teachings (mormons and the like who follow there leaders from the 1800s)

 

Thers a great south park episode about the creation of the mormons

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I know how much oral histories drift from the truth, and how fast. Sheesh, many of us have a family story about some relative only 3 or 4 generations back, but when checked against records of the time, it turns out to be either completely wrong or only vaguely recognisable.

 

Then consider that the earliest of the 'historical' gospels were written down by scribes around 5 or 6 generations after the event. Then also consider it was written down with a script that made a habit of leaving out vowels, so that even people who read the same language natively could misinterpret things. And then it was translated (and mistranslated) into different languages - several times. Oh, and at one point, the only written copy was partially destroyed during the sacking of Constantinople. And just to round it off, different branches of 'the church' decided to omit or change parts of what they got hold off.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna trust that document. Like fun I am.

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It depends what you want to get out of it.

 

Go and look at the schism between the Orthodox east and Catholic west. Go and look at the issues that brought about the protestant reformation in Europe.

 

It all has to be taken in the context of what happened in the past, and how you see it.

 

Do you really think it's important for apostolic succession of the bishops? Do the gross abuses of power by certain church officials of any denomination put you off that denomination? Do you have any bias in the debate over what the leader of a church tells you to believe in the bible versus your own informed interpretation? Similarly, do you think personal revelation has any sway?

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I kind of have. Why should I believe in the Judaeo-Christian God (yeah, I still kind of feel dirty saying Y....h) when there is no more reason than believing in Zeus?

 

Rob.

ok looks as if i was wrong. it just seemed that from some of your posts you werea practicing jew.

 

 

the Judaeo-Christian religion, and i say Judaeo-Christian as christianity is a continuation of judaism, has alot going for it and from what i have seen is the only religion that i see could be true. i say this in the way that christianity has alot of chracterisics that no other religions have. saved by belief and not having to work for salvation, was the first monotheistics religion (as far as i am aware) and there are others

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ok looks as if i was wrong. it just seemed that from some of your posts you werea practicing jew.

I kind of am a practicing Jew. It's confusing :P

 

the Judaeo-Christian religion, and i say Judaeo-Christian as christianity is a continuation of judaism, has alot going for it and from what i have seen is the only religion that i see could be true. i say this in the way that christianity has alot of chracterisics that no other religions have. saved by belief and not having to work for salvation, was the first monotheistics religion (as far as i am aware) and there are others

Christianity was the first monotheistic religion? You have to be kidding me :P

 

Anyway, what makes monotheism more believable than polytheism?

 

Why can't you just view polytheism as displaying multiple sides of a single God?

 

Rob.

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Catholicism is the "true" christian faith, that's why the Pope himself is Catholic.

Having said that, they're all fairly similar and they all follow a book that's thousands of years old and has been translated many many times and no doubt isn't legitimate at all.

Read the Bible. Read the Torah. Read the Koran. All the fundemental ideas are exactly the same.

 

There's no one "right" religion, and you'd be silly to think there was. There's different religions for different people, and in my opinion it doesn't matter what you pick because there if there is a heaven and a hell I believe it's a state of mind. I highly doubt your "soul" transcends and goes to some other place. When you're dead, you're dead. How you enjoy life though is another thing.

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now i must clear a few things up. bad OP on my part but robzy as far as i am concerned christianity is the only true religion and i would never stop beliveing in it. (would you ever abandon your judaism?)

 

director. i do read my bible and know that belief is all that is needed but i have thinking lately about the how the denominations that came from the reformation should be looked at. seeing catholics see only catholicism and orthodoxy as valid faiths.

 

i personally see all denominations as valid except for the ones that break away from christ's teachings (mormons and the like who follow there leaders from the 1800s)

 

Yeah it's hairy one TBH. Personally I see the whole idea of "Denominations" as being quite antithetical to one of Jesus' core concerns (read John 17), once we start 'separating things out' as it were we ALWAYS end up in big trouble, cos pretty soon we go from the 'seed of God was shed on all flesh' to "Only our gang is the real thing'. And once we ignore Romans 10 we start 'separating' people into 'saved' and 'unsaved' thereby reducing them in some way or turning them into a 'project' or object to be saved instead of seeing Christ as 'all and in all'. Regardless of how Catholics (or anyone else sees themselves) if YOU seek to be a follower of Christ then you should align your views with his by the continual 'renewing of the mind'. In the end, we have NO IDEA what the body of Christ will look like and who will and wont be in it, nor is it any of our business. As for protestant denominations, yeah the reformation was a necessary adjustment to years of abuse by the Catholic Church but as the scriptures say you need to 'test EVERYTHING' wheather that comes from someone or some group that you respect or someone that you hate to pieces, God works through ALL things if you can see it.

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ok looks as if i was wrong. it just seemed that from some of your posts you werea practicing jew.

I kind of am a practicing Jew. It's confusing :P

 

A practicing Jew who eats bacon and thinks about girls a lot =P

 

the Judaeo-Christian religion, and i say Judaeo-Christian as christianity is a continuation of judaism, has alot going for it and from what i have seen is the only religion that i see could be true. i say this in the way that christianity has alot of chracterisics that no other religions have. saved by belief and not having to work for salvation, was the first monotheistics religion (as far as i am aware) and there are others

Christianity was the first monotheistic religion? You have to be kidding me :P

 

Anyway, what makes monotheism more believable than polytheism?

 

Why can't you just view polytheism as displaying multiple sides of a single God?

 

Rob.

 

Nothing.

And you can.

You can also view them as multiple gods.

 

I think it was Yahtzee in his "Too Human" review that said the Greek gods make much more sense than any of the others.

Bad things happen all the time to people who don't deserve it, and he reckons if God was so compassionate he'd save them.

The Greek gods on the other hand were always drunk and fucking around, so it makes sense for the bad things to have happened because they were moody sonsofbitches.

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So essentially what you're saying, Director, is that pretty much all Christians have abused one of Jesus' "core concerns"?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that pretty much means that the only people who are true Christians are one that don't belong to a denomination, or those that do belong but have their own separate beliefs?

 

Rob.

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I know how much oral histories drift from the truth, and how fast. Sheesh, many of us have a family story about some relative only 3 or 4 generations back, but when checked against records of the time, it turns out to be either completely wrong or only vaguely recognisable.

 

Then consider that the earliest of the 'historical' gospels were written down by scribes around 5 or 6 generations after the event. Then also consider it was written down with a script that made a habit of leaving out vowels, so that even people who read the same language natively could misinterpret things. And then it was translated (and mistranslated) into different languages - several times. Oh, and at one point, the only written copy was partially destroyed during the sacking of Constantinople. And just to round it off, different branches of 'the church' decided to omit or change parts of what they got hold off.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna trust that document. Like fun I am.

Yeah dont try to gum up the thread with BS pls. The four gospels have been dated to well within the lifetime of the apostles. And the NT has only been translated once, from Greek into English, do some research instead of listening to BS artists. ;-)

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Catholicism is the "true" christian faith, that's why the Pope himself is Catholic.

Having said that, they're all fairly similar and they all follow a book that's thousands of years old and has been translated many many times and no doubt isn't legitimate at all.

Read the Bible. Read the Torah. Read the Koran. All the fundemental ideas are exactly the same.

The Buddhist teachings are also exactly the same.

 

I had the pleasure of reading through many of them while bored in my hotel room in Thailand, and the teachings mirror those of the Abrahammic religions pretty much exactly, except for the bit about God. Buddha doesn't really mention God - he pretty much reckons there is some sort of ethereal afterlife where we all become gods and merge into one, which could be construed as a vague description of the Abrahammic Heaven.

 

But in any case, the actual teachings on how one should live their lives? Pretty much exactly the same.

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Christianity was the first monotheistic religion? You have to be kidding me :P

you seemed to have missed the part of my post where i call christianity a continuation of judaism, jesus was jewish, jesus forfilling what is said in the jewish bible/old testament etc

 

Why can't you just view polytheism as displaying multiple sides of a single God?

how can one see polytheism like that if most polytheistic religions have hierachy of gods?

most polytheistics gods are used as good luck charms for different elements/things (when looking at norse/greek/roman mythology)

 

though the trinity is the closest christianity gets to that.

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I know how much oral histories drift from the truth, and how fast. Sheesh, many of us have a family story about some relative only 3 or 4 generations back, but when checked against records of the time, it turns out to be either completely wrong or only vaguely recognisable.

 

Then consider that the earliest of the 'historical' gospels were written down by scribes around 5 or 6 generations after the event. Then also consider it was written down with a script that made a habit of leaving out vowels, so that even people who read the same language natively could misinterpret things. And then it was translated (and mistranslated) into different languages - several times. Oh, and at one point, the only written copy was partially destroyed during the sacking of Constantinople. And just to round it off, different branches of 'the church' decided to omit or change parts of what they got hold off.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna trust that document. Like fun I am.

Yeah dont try to gum up the thread with BS pls. The four gospels have been dated to well within the lifetime of the apostles. And the NT has only been translated once, from Greek into English, do some research instead of listening to BS artists. ;-)

 

It's a thread on religion.

Everyone's going to see SOME sort of crap in it, from a variety of places based on their own feelings.

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A practicing Jew who eats bacon and thinks about girls a lot =P

And who will also fast on Yom Kipur (Thursday) :P

 

Won't quite be going to Synagogue though, even though technically it is more important than fasting, because it bores the shit out of me.

 

Bad things happen all the time to people who don't deserve it, and he reckons if God was so compassionate he'd save them.

We did a whole unit on this in Yr12 (I think, it may have been Yr11). If only I had the knowledge I had now. There was some bullshit theories we were taught, when quite simply the best one was that "God doesn't exist".

 

The Greek gods on the other hand were always drunk and fucking around, so it makes sense for the bad things to have happened because they were moody sonsofbitches.

So, essentially, as bad things do happen to good people, it's more likely that the Greek Gods are the real Gods? :P

 

Rob.

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how can one see polytheism like that if most polytheistic religions have hierachy of gods?

most polytheistics gods are used as good luck charms for different elements/things (when looking at norse/greek/roman mythology)

 

though the trinity is the closest christianity gets to that.

The Trinity is nothing like polytheism.

L2Christian.

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So essentially what you're saying, Director, is that pretty much all Christians have abused one of Jesus' "core concerns"?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that pretty much means that the only people who are true Christians are one that don't belong to a denomination, or those that do belong but have their own separate beliefs?

 

Rob.

1) Yeah pretty much, but then if any of us could do ANYTHING right then Jesus would become redundant. ;-)

 

2) While I'm not game to say who is and isn't a Christian (see Romans 10 again), I agree with what you are saying, denominations are irrelevant, in the final analysis each persons relationship with God is personal and individual.

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