Jump to content
twinair

Bloody cyclists!

Recommended Posts

What sort of idiot bicycle rider rides in the gutter between the foot path and a stopped taxi?

This one. And then blames the passengers for her stupidity.

It's wankers like this who give cyclists a bad name.

 

Watch the video and make up your own mind.

 

 

Yes, opening your door to harm a cyclist is not right and should be considered dangerous. These guys were passengers, in the back seat of a cab and were pulled up at the side of the road. Back doors don't have mirrors, and why should they? When you're hopping out of a cab like this, the last thing you expect is a moron coming down the gutter on a bike.

 

Taxi passengers abuse cyclist after ‘dooring’ crash in Melbourne CBD

 

POLICE are investigating after a cyclist was abused by a group of men who opened a taxi door in her path on Collins St, causing her to crash.

 

The incident was caught by a camera mounted on her handlebars.

 

Footage shows her riding past several cars before the taxi door is flung open and she crashes heavily into it and falls to the ground.

 

Cycling advocates say the action clearly amounted to an offence, known as “dooring”.

 

In the video, the woman immediately asks the three men who alight from the cab for their details, telling them “I’ve got it all on camera”.

 

One man apologises, but another says her riding was “dangerous”. All refuse to give their names.

 

“Do you know what you just did? You just doored me. That’s an offence,” the cyclist said.

 

She pursues them along Collins St towards Swanston St, and they begin to abuse her.

 

“You ride up the inside of a car that’s stopped at the lights — you are a fool,” one man said.

 

That was followed by: “The way people like you ride around is disgusting.”

 

Victoria Police spokeswoman Leading Sen-Constable Julie-Anne Newman said police had launched a probe into the incident after a 65-year-old man from Brighton contacted them.

 

The man called police after seeing the video footage on the news, she said.

Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber urged police to investigate.

 

“The really distressing part is that those men are arguing with the cyclist, saying she is in the wrong, when they are at fault,” Mr Barber said.

 

Victoria’s road rules state that it is an offence, punishable by a fine of more than $350, to cause a hazard to a person or vehicle by opening a car door.

 

Mr Barber said the State Government should consider his plan to introduce demerit points for “dooring”.

 

 

Edit: whoops, thread title typo! Should be "bloody"....please a mod fix this up :)

Edited by twinair

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a bike lane.

It's there for bike users to use.

They got out of the taxi on an area of road that is no standing.

 

I don't know where you are from, twinair, but those lanes and no standing/stopping areas are specifically there so bike riders can ride on those paths. They exist, because in the past, bike riders have been killed by buses and taxis, while doing the right thing.

 

 

So, in answer to your question, she's riding along the inside of the cars, because they aren't allowed to stop, park or prop there. Passengers are only allowed to get out of a vehicle, IF IT IS SAFE. There are other places where taxis can pull up and passengers can get out.

 

EDIT: FWIW i'm not one of those "bike riders". I don't ride in the city. But it pisses me off that people can be so blase about something that could have seriously injured her, when she was clearly in the right, riding in a lane that exists to that bikes can safely commute around the city.

Edited by TinBane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a bike lane.

It's there for bike users to use.

They got out of the taxi on an area of road that is no standing.

Last I checked it is illegal to pass a vehicle on the left hand side.

Though on further googling, thats a QLD state law. (we also have a nice new one, that says 'no cyclists within 1m' this works both ways, so if theres not enough space, no traffic filtering, you!)

In NSW they have a special law allowing cyclists ONLY to pass on the left (or so says google).

I wonder what the law is in Melbourne?

 

And if thts how Melbourne city has their bike lanes designed?

Thats pretty piss poor. You ALWAYS end the bike lane before the major intersections, so exactly this cant happen.

 

There's no yellow lines, it looks like its OK to enter and exit a vehicle there.... or is that a QLD thing too?

What marks that spot as illegal to stop in Melbourne?

Googling "melbourne bike lane" shows me that bike lanes look the same in Melbourne as Brisbane:

Posted Image

 

I don't see ANY bike symbols or green grip paint the whole street up.

I think the cab passenger is correct; "I don't recon that's a bike lane"

The fact that at 0:18 you can see a storm water drain taking up the entire 'path' (a serious health and safety risk; non motorists will vouch for the dangers of those things) it looks more like a gutter.

 

Really you have some bloody arrogant passengers, not being very concerned.

But you also have an idiot cyclist, who wasnt looking at the passengers as she approached the stopped cab.

As a motorbike rider, you ALWAYS watch the passengers.

Cab = Rude

Rider = Rookie

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

google'd:

 

"The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal.”

 

Assuming that cab has JUST pulled to the left, I'd assume (though, no, cant be sure) that he has turned to the left, and is giving a left turn signal. Nromally you'd stop indicating left when you plan to move away, or if you're parking. If he didnt indicate, the cab driver could be the one at fault.

Edited by Master_Scythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was a bike lane, then that is that taxi driver's fault. Not the passenger's fault.

 

But it is an arrogant attitude as a cyclist, and a very dangerous one, to just ride between a car and a gutter just because it's a bike lane.

When I'm riding, if I see a driver doing something dumb I get the fuck out of their way. Why? Because I will always come off second best.

I'm not going to carry on thinking oh I am in the right here and I'll just abuse them later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a bike lane.

It's there for bike users to use.

They got out of the taxi on an area of road that is no standing.

Last I checked it is illegal to pass a vehicle on the left hand side.

Though on further googling, thats a QLD state law. (we also have a nice new one, that says 'no cyclists within 1m' this works both ways, so if theres not enough space, no traffic filtering, you!)

In NSW they have a special law allowing cyclists ONLY to pass on the left (or so says google).

I wonder what the law is in Melbourne?

 

And if thts how Melbourne city has their bike lanes designed?

Thats pretty piss poor. You ALWAYS end the bike lane before the major intersections, so exactly this cant happen.

 

There's no yellow lines, it looks like its OK to enter and exit a vehicle there.... or is that a QLD thing too?

What marks that spot as illegal to stop in Melbourne?

Googling "melbourne bike lane" shows me that bike lanes look the same in Melbourne as Brisbane:

Posted Image

 

I don't see ANY bike symbols or green grip paint the whole street up.

I think the cab passenger is correct; "I don't recon that's a bike lane"

The fact that at 0:18 you can see a storm water drain taking up the entire 'path' (a serious health and safety risk; non motorists will vouch for the dangers of those things) it looks more like a gutter.

 

Actually my bad!

It's not a bike lane, Collins St is flagged for a "dedicated" bike lane.

That said "The line markings are intended to encourage drivers to stay to the right of cyclists that are using this road space.

 

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/police-u...2wMIYhPGk"

 

However, it's still a no standing zone.

You can't get out of a taxi, on Collins St behind those tram stops where the accident took place.

In addition, the dooring laws brought in in 2012, clearly state that it's the responsibility of the person opening the door.

 

This isn't filtering, this isn't overtaking on the left, this is bike riders using a lane marked out for them, and passengers leaving a vehicle in a no-standing area, and without checking for the safety of bike riders.

 

google'd:

 

"The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal.”

 

Assuming that cab has JUST pulled to the left, I'd assume (though, no, cant be sure) that he has turned to the left, and is giving a left turn signal. Nromally you'd stop indicating left when you plan to move away, or if you're parking. If he didnt indicate, the cab driver could be the one at fault.

 

Dude, I live in Melbourne. I walked and trammed past this point daily for five years.

You can't pull over here, it's illegal.

You can't drop of passengers here.

You can't enter the bike lane (it has rumble strips to remind you).

You can't open your door without checking for a bike.

 

There is one lane, and one lane only. Because of the giant tram stop you can see on the right.

 

I'm sorry if that upsets you, but as the taxi drove down Collins street, it probably passed fifty bike riders!

This isn't some kind of freak accident to the one moron riding in that spot. It's a common occurrence, and a breach of the law.

 

twinair: I agree, the taxi drivers should be held responsible. They should warn their passengers not to get out there, and it should be a violation of his taxi license.

However, the dooring law clearly states the responsibility lies with the opener of the door. Not the bike rider, not the driver. In victoria, if there is a bike lane (either on the left of traffic, or the right of parked cars) it's your responsibility to check. Yours.

Edited by TinBane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's very naive and stupid of her to continue riding that narrow stretch when she saw the cab pull over.

 

For example, if you're about to cross at a pedestrian crossing, and you see a car hurtling down the street, do you take caution, or do you just meander out on to the road and think to yourself "fuck it, it's a pedestrian crossing I'm in the right and if he runs me over I'll tell him he was in the wrong!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cab didn't pull over, it appears to be stopped at lights. I know the intersection, he had stopped right next to a raised tram stop.

 

If you look infront of the cab, other cars are stopped, so she's not stupid or what ever for not paying attention to a car doing something out of the ordinary there.

 

And it is a bike lane, that part of the road has been made more narrow for the tram stop so the bike lane gets very narrow there.

 

 

 

As for bike lanes ending, Melbourne has been getting more and more bike lanes and there is a special zone at the traffic lights for bikes to stop in.

Edited by PointZeroOne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chill TinBane, thats cool, I dont live in Melbourne, I know my comments are 'leading' but most of it was genuine queries. If its no standing there; then the cab driver is in the wrong. I'd say its not the job of the passenger to know road rules (otherwise they'd be driving). Agree?

(PS. Dear Melbourne, mark your no standing zones with yellow; works great in QLD)

 

 

And yes, twinair, thats about it for me too.... Even if she is in the right, she was silly.

Best motorcycling advice ive ever heard: "You're either defensive, or faster, never in the right" (so, always be ready to either GTFO or Back Off; never 'use your rights' because metal doesn't care)

 

Law or not, whoever has the most tonnage of steel on their vehicle has the 'right', unless you like making symbolic stands using your life as the buffer.

 

 

How facinating.. a 'dooring' law? Guess my little excuse for a CBD has no need; never even heard of the bloody thing, lol. The more you know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's very naive and stupid of her to continue riding that narrow stretch when she saw the cab pull over.

 

For example, if you're about to cross at a pedestrian crossing, and you see a car hurtling down the street, do you take caution, or do you just meander out on to the road and think to yourself "fuck it, it's a pedestrian crossing I'm in the right and if he runs me over I'll tell him he was in the wrong!"

Which is another way of blaming the victim.

She had no warning, that's how dooring works.

The alternative, is that cyclists use of a space set aside for them is compromised.

 

Yes, she didn't utterly minimiser her risks.

But thousands of bike traverse that same path a day, without issue. Thousands of Uni students alone do this.

You can't drive in Melbourne, oblivious to the bikes using the city.

 

Legally, she is totally in the right. It's not incumbent in the state of Victoria, for the bike rider to work out that you are going to open a door.

 

"Rule 269(3) of the Victorian Road Safety Road Rules 2009 states it is an offence to cause a hazard to a person or a vehicle by opening a car door, leaving a door of a vehicle open, or getting off, or out of, a vehicle.

Please note that this offence covers a range of situations when people are getting in or out of vehicles - for example opening a car door into the path of a bike rider, dismounting a motorcycle, or stepping out of a bus."

 

"Bike riders are legitimate road users, and are therefore entitled to use the road just the same as any other road user. Car drivers and bike riders should share the road safely and look out for each other. As a driver or a passenger:

Get into the habit of always using your mirrors and doing a head check before opening your car door (one way to do this is to open the car door with your left hand)

Bike riders can travel quickly and may be much closer than you think

When getting into your car, face the oncoming traffic so you can see bike riders (and other road users) travelling towards you. Do not open your car door until they have passed.

Bike riders can ride between parked cars and the lane of traffic so, as a passenger, do not get out of a stationary car when in moving traffic

Share the road safely."

 

From vicroads, I added the bold.

 

And yes, twinair, thats about it for me too.... Even if she is in the right, she was silly.

Best motorcycling advice ive ever heard: "You're either defensive, or faster, never in the right" (so, always be ready to either GTFO or Back Off; never 'use your rights' because metal doesn't care)

 

Law or not, whoever has the most tonnage of steel on their vehicle has the 'right', unless you like making symbolic stands using your life as the buffer.

 

How facinating.. a 'dooring' law? Guess my little excuse for a CBD has no need; never even heard of the bloody thing, lol. The more you know!

She was riding as intended under Victorian law.

She was riding in a way that a reasonable person would.

It's not incumbent on her, to make sure that some dickhead won't break two or three laws.

 

She wasn't doing anything dangerous. It is normal to ride in those lanes, and you don't expect anyone to open the door, at those points, especially without checking.

 

What's the alternative? Walk your bike the whole way through the CBD in the bike lanes?

 

The driver of the taxi, and the passenger have apparently been interviewed by police.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cab didn't pull over, it appears to be stopped at lights.

+1

 

the cab doesn't pull over, it's just waiting in the line of traffic when the passengers decide to get out across a bike lane.

 

I wish all bike lanes looked like the pic you posted MS, but in many cases it's just a narrow strip on the left side of the road with nothing but a line of paint separating the cars from the bikes. No doubt in my mind that the rider was riding appropriately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops, probably not the best video the poor girl could have taken, it probably isn't very clear - and the cyclist comes across as a shrill harpy, which doesn't help her case at all.

 

It seems QLD road rules are a bit different to Victoria's, at least as far as road markings go. As Master_Scythe pointed out, ours seem to make a bit more sense. Full disclaimer, I'm a cyclist, I ride on and off roads and on bike tracks and paths, but I also adhere to the ideologies pointed out by twinair and Master_Scythe. I don't care if the law is on my freaking side or not, I'm going to take the responsibility for my safety rather than assume others will behave legally. If that means riding along a footpath instead of a dangerous bike path, then that's what I'll do. If that means staying off major roads in favour of going around quieter roads, then that's what I'll do. And I never assume that, just because I have right of way, that others know that I do, or that they'll behave accordingly.

 

Back to the girl in the OP. I have to defer to TinBane and PointZeroOne on this - I don't know the intersection, road rules or idiosyncrasies of the area. If it's a bike lane, then it's a bike lane, and I guess the people opening the door were more at fault than she was. It's a shame those getting out of the taxi didn't think to take a moment to look over their shoulders - but it seems as though nobody was seriously hurt, and that's a very good thing.

 

On first look, it seems a bit steep to force people in cars to always, always, always be on the lookout for cyclists and then force the responsibility onto them - but on the other hand, I guess I don't really see any other way to handle the situation. It's just further proof, to my mind, that Australian cities are not adequately equipped to deal with cyclists, so we have these half-measures in place to sticky-tape and blu-tac the whole system together. And then it fails in some way. At least this time, nobody was seriously hurt.

Edited by elvenwhore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so she's not stupid or what ever for not paying attention to a car doing something out of the ordinary there.

As someone who only rides tin-top (car) for 50% of my commute; yeah... she kinda is.... The back window of that taxi wasnt tinted. If she saw the passengers move toward the door; she shoulda stopped.

 

Is it a line of cars, or is it pulled over (illegally or not?). If its pulled over; I'd say 'silly'. If it was a line at some lights; maybe sun or something stopped her seeing inside the car.

 

Really though, I see too many cyclists using their 'lay down' hand grips and looking at the road, not other drivers.

 

She wasn't doing anything dangerous. It is normal to ride in those lanes, and you don't expect anyone to open the door, at those points, especially without checking.

 

What's the alternative? Walk your bike the whole way through the CBD in the bike lanes?

Well she'll get very hurt again then. Even if you ride a motorcycle, people open doors on you, when you're in the right.

Turning left, having a parked car 'fling a door open' is just something you watch for! You're always vigilant of it, because you're not in a tin like they are.

As Elven said, she cycles, I motor; but the same ideas apply. being 'Right' isnt being 'Safe'. and unfortunately being 'right' when the car hits you, wont help.

 

The alternative? Well considering we've established that's not a bike lane; is that not considered traffic filtering? Stop behind the cars, or move to another lane to continue?

Edited by Master_Scythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, problem is there isn't much space to add more bike lane along Collins st :/

 

Sorry if I've over reacted, but my brother was hit by a car (no injury to himself, but his bike was totalled) and he ended up having to go to court to get it replaced. He was physically threatened at the time of the incident. Two guys getting out of a car, threatening one guy who was by himself and just knocked to the ground, and his bike wrecked. I agree there are annoying cyclists, that do stupid stuff.

 

But there are a LOT of bike riders, who do nothing wrong, something bad happens, and suddenly they were behaving recklessly.

 

Melbourne has done a lot for bike riders, and will do more and more.

There are roads in the city, totally closed off except for buses, bikes and trams. There are bike lanes all over. There are HUGE numbers of bike riders, and there are rental bikes available. The taxi driver, and passenger, both Melbourne locals who know their way around the CBD are incredibly culpable. Plus they may have left the scene of an accident, which in itself is pretty serious.

 

 

 

As someone who only rides tin-top (car) for 50% of my commute; yeah... she kinda is.... The back window of that taxi wasnt tinted. If she saw the passengers move toward the door; she shoulda stopped.

 

Is it a line of cars, or is it pulled over (illegally or not?). If its pulled over; I'd say 'silly'. If it was a line at some lights; maybe sun or something stopped her seeing inside the car.

 

Really though, I see too many cyclists using their 'lay down' hand grips and looking at the road, not other drivers.

Now see, this is what pisses me off.

Now you are just making excuses. You can CLEARLY see from the video, that there is glare on the window.

It's not pulled over. It's a car, in a line of cars.

 

I'll just knock myself out, and go over the same shit again.

This is Melbourne, not Brisbane.

This is an area of road used by thousands of cyclists a day.

These are people from Melbourne, used to driving in city traffic.

 

She didn't do anything stupid. She had a reasonable expectation that in the location she was, doing what she did was not only protected by law (which I agree with you, is not reason to do things 100% of the time), but it's also something you should reasonably be able to do, because thousands of people do it a day. We get about 38 doorings a year in the Melbourne CBD, according to the council. So obviously, with thousands of bike riders and thousands of drivers, the situation is reasonably well understood.

 

When you start putting higher and higher burdens on the rider who copped a door (shouldn't have been riding there, should have seen the passenger moving, should have been wearing fluouro pink, should have been coated in a sumo suit, should have been driving a car, should have been walking her bike) all you are doing, is excusing the reckless, moronic, and illegal behaviour of someone else. It's the same as mentioning what a rape victim was wearing.

 

If they ask for your details, you should give them. Blaming them for riding in a bike lane, in the middle of the Melbourne CBD, and calling them "Disgusting" is not okay.

I've seen a number of doorings, and even before the laws came in in 2009, people usually give their details, and accept responsibility (in the CBD).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well she'll get very hurt again then. Even if you ride a motorcycle, people open doors on you, when you're in the right.

Turning left, having a parked car 'fling a door open' is just something you watch for! You're always vigilant of it, because you're not in a tin like they are.

As Elven said, she cycles, I motor; but the same ideas apply. being 'Right' isnt being 'Safe'. and unfortunately being 'right' when the car hits you, wont help.

 

The alternative? Well considering we've established that's not a bike lane; is that not considered traffic filtering? Stop behind the cars, or move to another lane to continue?

And who says she wasn't vigilant?

Who says she wasn't watching?

 

Like I said, thousands of cars a day. Thousands of bikes a day. 38 doorings a year that end up like this one (reported).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now see, this is what pisses me off.

Now you are just making excuses. You can CLEARLY see from the video, that there is glare on the window.

It's not pulled over. It's a car, in a line of cars.

Chill.

Yep, I rewatched at again (8th time, lol) and you're right. Glare sucks. Shame she didnt notice it was glary, but you're right. 20/20 hindsight is a gift we all have and cant apply :P

 

Also, sorry, I didnt know that wasn't "pulled over" it looks exacytly like what taxi's do here, all line up to the side of whatever road they so desire. Looked like a 'taxi rank' (illegal or not, usually doesnt phase them, lol)

 

I'm not arguing with the points you've made;

PERSONALLY I wouldn't have ridden there, and as such I wouldn't have copped a door.

However your points are valid, and you're welcome to them. Additional burdons on the rider sucks; but it seems 'non car drivers' (whoever they are) forget their frailty vs. the other things around them a lot.

 

Motorbike riders filtering, cyclists coming within 1m of cars (illegal in QLD), pedestrians crossing BEFORE the cars have stopped, skateboarders 'crossing' roads via footpath without stopping, joggers on 'mountain roads' used by hoons and not stepping off while the car passes.

Right or not, it scares the crap out of me to see it. The reaper only cares if you're dead, not if you were right.

 

Well she'll get very hurt again then. Even if you ride a motorcycle, people open doors on you, when you're in the right.

Turning left, having a parked car 'fling a door open' is just something you watch for! You're always vigilant of it, because you're not in a tin like they are.

As Elven said, she cycles, I motor; but the same ideas apply. being 'Right' isnt being 'Safe'. and unfortunately being 'right' when the car hits you, wont help.

 

The alternative? Well considering we've established that's not a bike lane; is that not considered traffic filtering? Stop behind the cars, or move to another lane to continue?

And who says she wasn't vigilant?

Who says she wasn't watching?

 

Like I said, thousands of cars a day. Thousands of bikes a day. 38 doorings a year that end up like this one (reported).

 

That small of a percentage got a law made? Jesus!.....thousands of bikes, assuming they pass 50 cars in their trip, some with 2 passengers, so thus 2 doors (so lets say 75 'doors' passed that could be opened?), and only 38 incidents.

I know you're guestimating, but so am I. Still, thats 0.0506% and they made a law on it.

Its a good law, dont get me wrong, but thats a damn loud voiced minority!

 

No one said she wasnt; its just a game of devils advocate. Its not much a discussion if you dont argue, it just ends up with a thread of "+1" which isnt very fun.

 

 

Another note, which I'm sure isnt relevant, but has been plaguing my mind since i saw it.

That looks like a helmet cam.

Attaching ANY device to an ADR helmet causes said helmet to no longer meet ADR (I should know, Ive been booked for it - gopro on helmet via suction - booked for 'modifying a safety device', and 'not wearing an ADR helmet').

Irrelevant, yes, but it was bugging me, lol.

Edited by Master_Scythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chill.

Yep, I rewatched at again (8th time, lol) and you're right. Glare sucks. Shame she didnt notice it was glary, but you're right. 20/20 hindsight is a gift we all have and cant apply :P

 

Also, sorry, I didnt know that wasn't "pulled over" it looks exacytly like what taxi's do here, all line up to the side of whatever road they so desire. Looked like a 'taxi rank' (illegal or not, usually doesnt phase them, lol)

 

I'm not arguing with the points you've made;

PERSONALLY I wouldn't have ridden there, and as such I wouldn't have copped a door.

However your points are valid, and you're welcome to them. Additional burdons on the rider sucks; but it seems 'non car drivers' (whoever they are) forget their frailty vs. the other things around them a lot.

 

Motorbike riders filtering, cyclists coming within 1m of cars (illegal in QLD), pedestrians crossing BEFORE the cars have stopped, skateboarders 'crossing' roads via footpath without stopping, joggers on 'mountain roads' used by hoons and not stepping off while the car passes.

Right or not, it scares the crap out of me to see it. The reaper only cares if you're dead, not if you were right.

None of which is relevant. All it is, is excusing illegal behaviour in this case.

Your continued misunderstanding, frankly disgusts me.

"Shame she didn't notice it was glary"

"It's a shame she was wearing such provocative clothing, she would never have got raped if she was wearing a burqua"?

 

Your perception of the risk she is taking, is way, WAY off. If you are at the swimming pool (ie your behaviour is considered normal and safe) then making statements about the risks she is taking, is just excusing illegal behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well sorry for disgusting you?

 

If stating that I PERSONALLY would take less risks (nothing says hers arent normal, mine are totally paranoid), is a way to excuse illegal behavior.... sorry?

 

and yes, I stand by my feeling that its a shame she wasnt aware of the glare. Its certainly not a GOOD thing she wasnt aware.

Though, as already stated, I have 20/20 hindsight, she didnt, it simply might not have been something on her mind if she's not as paranoid in life as I am.

Edited by Master_Scythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Master_Scythe actively disagreeing with you, TB? I thought the point he was making is that yes, the law is right and yes it should be followed (which is the same fundamental points you - and I, for that matter - have been making), but that those in a more vulnerable position on the roads sometimes have to make decisions to keep themselves even more safe than the law is trying to do for them. It seems you both disagree on this second position, which is an extension,or an expansion of scope, of the first position.

 

I also agree with you, that some of what has been said here can sound like victim-blaming. And the Valar knows I don't take kindly to those positions :-p But whilst I'd like to believe that a simple law covers things ("don't door people; there, done, next?"), I also know that it's not that simple. If I have to ride along a major road along a narrow bike lane with lots of traffic turning in front of me, you better believe I'm going the next block over to avoid that road because I think it's courteous to other road-users, I think it's safer for me and I think it makes more sense. Yes, the law may be on my side but what the fuck good is that to me when I'm splattered across the road?

 

Even when I'm driving, I can't trust other drivers not to do something stupid. When I'm on a bike, it's the same thing but so much more dangerous. When I'm riding, I assume the negative from the outset and take the responsibility onto myself to remove myself from a potentially dangerous situation. Example: a couple of times a week, I ride with my fiancee to his work, then double-back home. On our commute is a little causeway over some water. It's a single-lane road in both directions but extremely busy and full of big semi's (as there are a number of depots and factories) and commuter cars (it's near the train station, near a corporate park and near a school). At 7.30am on a weekday, it's constant traffic. We have a dedicated bike lane the full length of the road but it narrows significantly on the causeway to the point where it's just a single unbroken line right on the edge, up against a bannister. We pull up, just off the road, physically turn our upper bodies and wait until there's a break in the traffic before proceeding across the causeway. Yes, we technically have the legal right to just continue to ride but we don't do so because it's far too dangerous as the causeway is very narrow and there's no way for a car to go in both directions as well as a cyclist, and we're going to come off second-best in that situation.

 

To use your rape analogy, I don't see that as me taking it upon myself to wear a burqa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Master_Scythe actively disagreeing with you, TB?

 

~~~~~~

 

When I'm riding, I assume the negative from the outset and take the responsibility onto myself to remove myself from a potentially dangerous situation.

No, I'm agreeing with him. I asked for facts, questioned the ones I didnt know, and for some reason this was inflammatory, sorry.

 

I do the same thing when I ride (i cycled a lot before i blew my knees out); the argument Tinbane has is that she shouldnt have to? I think at least.... or that our stance of taking 'the long way, for safety' is letting the criminals 'get away with it' (by making excuses?) to be blunt, I'm not sure what part caused the perceived agression.

Edited by Master_Scythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From looking at the Video Clip i can see that the cyclist is quite clearly in the wrong ,in fact both the Guys and Cyclist is in the wrong.

 

The white line indicates a do not park and even do not alight from vehicle. The White line is NOT for cyclists it would have been about 1 metre in width if it was so.

 

The Cyclist also launched a tirade at the guys and followed them ,this could be seen as Harassment and possibly as stalking.

 

But its situations like those that give cyclists a bad name.

 

It was an accident it was quite clearly seen ,or if you want to look at it was a setup. Quite obviously why did this cyclist have a camera going in that place ? Did she know the car had people in it that would alight in that zone.

 

Both where in the wrong ,and i would not buy the story from the cyclist either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno Code, cameras on cyclists are common these days. That doesnt strike me as odd.

 

Though when you say

even do not alight from vehicle.

Are you saying those type of lines in Melbourne mean 'no overtaking' as well?

That could change things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty simple stuff. The people getting out of the car were fucking oblivious. They would have just passed bike riders the whole way, I've gotten out of cars near that intersection, if you aren't getting out in a designated taxi spot, of which there is one just across the intersection, and about 50 meters before that intersection, you turn around and look before opening your door to avoid exactly what happened.

 

Lucky for them she wasn't seriously injured or the guy opening the door would have been in major injury, doesn't look like she's issued a complaint, so instead they'll just get a dose of shame and a bit of knowledge on properly handling a situation in the future.

 

 

It's weird seeing people blame the bike rider in this case. There was no way for her to know that some random car was going to open doors at an intersection where they should not have been opening doors. I doubt the taxi drive tried to stop them, but yeah. I've been in that situation, where you're close to your destination so you decide to get out at a light rather than waiting and walk the last little bit. Looks to me like that's what they were doing to me. So they opened the door and got out of a spot while stopped in traffic. Geniuses.

 

Had they not kind of been dicks, I doubt she would have bothered. Instead they refused to give her information, were a bit abusive, rude and so fuck those guys. In their shoes I would have helped her up, made she she was ok, given her a business card and told her to ring if there was any damage to her bike.

 

Oh well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno Code, cameras on cyclists are common these days. That doesnt strike me as odd.

 

Though when you say

even do not alight from vehicle.

Are you saying those type of lines in Melbourne mean 'no overtaking' as well?

That could change things.

 

If you look at all countries this is common a unbroken line on the left lane near the gutter indicates a 'No Parking or Standing' . As for Overtaking that also applies read the Road rules its a common law based on International Road rules.

 

Same as if you travel in the country and the Line in centre is unbroken means no Overtaking ,probably due to poor sight ahead or on a bend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having worked as a cycle courier for a number of years way back when, I have a few thoughts on this. Sure, the guys getting out should have checked first. The taxi driver should be on the lookout for that sort of thing, as much as possible.

 

And yet, whatever laws may be in place, that rider was risking being doored. When you ride like that, even if it is legal to do so, its only a matter of time. People get out of cars without looking all the time, especially taxis. Left side or right side. Bicycle lanes or not. Simple rule of thumb is to stay out of the range of a swinging door, and be on the lookout otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno Code, cameras on cyclists are common these days. That doesnt strike me as odd.

 

Though when you say

even do not alight from vehicle.

Are you saying those type of lines in Melbourne mean 'no overtaking' as well?

That could change things.

 

If you look at all countries this is common a unbroken line on the left lane near the gutter indicates a 'No Parking or Standing' . As for Overtaking that also applies read the Road rules its a common law based on International Road rules.

 

Same as if you travel in the country and the Line in centre is unbroken means no Overtaking ,probably due to poor sight ahead or on a bend.

 

Well that does change it doesnt it? Assuming you're right, overtaking on a solid white line puts the cyclist in the wrong, as it wasnt a bike lane.

I was on the other side of the fence for a while; but if you're right.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×