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wlayton27

The Islamic State (aka ISIS) Crisis

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Many of you have probably already heard about the ISIS crisis. It's that thing going on in Iraq and Syria at the moment. I don't know why there isn't already a topic on it ... it's only been reported as the "most significant development in international jihadism since 9/11" by Charles Lister.

 

Recent DailyMail.co.uk article goes fairly in-depth on the developing crisis and well worth a look. I was planning on adding it to an existing topic on ISIS, but apparently there isn't one.

 

Big thing here is that Caliph Ibrahim, formerly known as Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri al-Samarrai, formerly known as Dr. Ibrahim and Abu Dua, most commonly known by the nom de guerre Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (geezus dude, get a life, not a new name), a likely CIA asset that I call #426, is calling for all Muslims around the world to join in a new empire and fight on behalf of this new Islamic State that has plans to expand its influence across the Middle Ease, North Africa, SW Asia, the Eastern Block, and Spain. Of course at the moment they're still working on Iraq and Syria to a small extent, and plans are likely to accelerate into Saudi Arabia by the end of July.

 

I believe that the CIA is indirectly providing funding for the ISIS organization in order to orchestrate a coup in Saudi Arabia so that the US can purchase oil with cash once again. I agree that only selling oil for gold is grossly inefficient and economically unstable, but I wouldn't be willing to finance a potentially WWIII-escalating jihadist empire to make my point. I would love to draft up a petition for the UN to provide support troops to protect Saudi Arabia from the impending coup, but unfortunately the US is one of five nations with veto powers in the UN so even if the vote passed nothing would happen. As it is, Saudi Arabia has altogether too many supporters behind ISIS to provide any real protection against the invasion ... even their own military leaders are siding with the enemies of their state. It sounds to me like it'll be just like what happened in Iraq in June. Just the military giving their weapons over to ISIS and abandoning their duties.

 

I've already mentioned my frustrations in the WOYM topic, or something of that sort. When we deployed to Iraq, we were supposed to be finding WMDs and of course there weren't any. But we made the best of it and helped the Shi'ites not get completely murdered by the Sunni uprising and delayed an inevitable civil war that would have been entirely one-sided. But then we left and let the CIA do this whole coup thing to completely circumvent the civil war with one quick and clean mass execution, all in the name of one man's promise to trade oil for defunct cash (a promise I doubt he'll actually keep and eventually the US will find a more depraved psychopath to dethrone him and carry out the same exact mission -- yet again).

 

I do hate to harp against the Muslim people. I respect religion almost as much as I respect science. But what is going on here isn't a Jihad. It certainly isn't a religious duty to join in a fight for a unified caliphate. If you do happen to be Muslim, I say give this guy a middle finger (or a thumb up if that's the "go fuck yourself" sign in Arabic), and go back to reading your Qur'an and praying for peace.

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Hang on... you have any links to suggest Langley is behind fomenting a coup against Saudi ?

 

Seems difficult to believe, Saudi is one fucked up country but relative to others in the ME almost sensible and very much a purported friend to both the US and especially the UK. I'm not dismissing it, CIA's reputation doesn't allow me to, but my own concerns over ISIS centre more around the way the concept of a Caliphate is taking hold across the ME, not least in Palestine.

 

The reasons behind the latest flare up between the Palestinians and Israel are not directly linked, born of murders, but Hamas is sure talking up a Caliphate which has Israel very scared, a true Holy War could easily erupt.

 

Cheers

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Saudi Arabia is a friend to the US the same way Judas was a loyal disciple of Jesus. God knows they have sponsored enough terrorism to be bombed 100x times worse than Iraq if it weren't for their oil.

Edited by Oracle X

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I kind of get the impression IS's ambition to become an official Islamic nation will end up being its own downfall. Terrorist groups like the kind IS sprung from thrive when they're fragmented cells without a centralised government/power structure. Consolidating that under a Caliph will only make it easier to break the back of a group like IS. Eventually if IS wants to be a state, it will have to put in infrastructure, a recognisable militia, a bureaucracy - all things that can be taken out far easier than a bunch of rogue, loosely-unified, virtually nomadic cells can.

 

Compare it to al-Qaeda - nobody knew where Osama was for a very long time, whereas I can take a pretty good guess that Ibrahim - who has basically painted a giant "I'm important, assassinate me" sign above his head - is somewhere in Mosul. And they've got to get Shia and Sunni on the same page to boot - good luck with that.

 

It's something to watch, that's for sure, but I think IS will eventually collapse under its own weight, or be done in by its own ambition.

Edited by aquilus

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Eventually if IS wants to be a state, it will have to put in infrastructure, a recognisable militia, a bureaucracy - all things that can be taken out far easier than a bunch of rogue, loosely-unified, virtually nomadic cells can.

This is a good point. Almost like a debt-consolidating annuity, turning a bunch of groups into one large faction makes the enemy a much more prominant target. But the general concept of an idea which cannot be destroyed once born doesn't actually change as a result. It's almost less threatening to have the entire Jihadist ideology become mortalized by a conglomerated representation which can be torn down like the USSR, but at the same time it's not all that comforting to see a rise of power of this sort turn into a war on multiple facets (political, religious, social, economic, and so on) where black and white can rapidly turn into blurred grey areas of cultural ethical conflict.

 

...they've got to get Shia and Sunni on the same page to boot - good luck with that.

Not really. Looks to me that Shia is going the way of the dodo. Even in the article I posted, Iraq's Shi'ite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered 2500 Iraqi border guards to abandon their posts on the Saudi border following the ISIS invasion. His reasons aren't clear and certainly weren't given, but I believe it is directly out of duress by Sunni threats of force. Go or be killed, and if I'm giving the orders and have to take the heat for mass genocides when they occur ... fuck it just go. The Sunni aren't taking any Shi'ite ("shit" if you didn't get it already). If you happen to follow the Shia ideology in Iraq and value your life and family, just play along with the Sunni or make a break for it. No US forces to set up a triage or casavac if you decide to stay and fight the impending bloodbath, and they have all the weapons so it's a lost cause before the fighting even starts. No need to get the Shia "on the same page" if they're powerless to resist the new regime. Like a US independent party voter that can't tolerate Republican GOP nominees, just vote Democrat and be done with it ... if you're a Muslim, you're officially a Sunni now.

 

@chrisg: If I had evidence that Langley was actually arming ISIS militia, I would probably have a black bag over my head by now. So no. Big NO to the whole evidence thing. Hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but can't resist the foreknowlege appeal of being "in" on the big prank before the punchline. Here is the usual "ZOMG they're ALLIES and they're funding da' BAD GUYS" speal about ME countries allied with the US that are slushing funding towards ISIS that came from criminal activities which could possibly be made possible (sponsored) by US organizations that the CIA uses to move weapons (chess pieces) around the globe (board). If the CIA were actually supporting ISIS, the current paper trail matches with their modus operandi a bit too perfectly. Maybe it's all a set-up to make it just look like CIA activity. Does if even fucking matter? Personally, I just want to start a petition with the UN to provide peacekeepers on the Saudi borders and watch the US veto that petition just months before the invasion to slightly increase the amount of egg on the US political faces in the aftermath. Why do we really not care about this? I look at the US news on the matter and it's all ... "do as little as humanly possible because we don't want a sudden influx of money and weapons to attract too much attention" ... and that whole line of crap.

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Saudi Arabia is a friend to the US the same way Judas was a loyal disciple of Jesus. God knows they have sponsored enough terrorism to be bombed 100x times worse than Iraq if it weren't for their oil.

You know there's a school of thought that says Judas *was* Jesus' most loyal henchman? It boils down to J-man realising he needs to be a martyr if he's ever going to have any influence, and gets Judas to drop a dime on him.

 

Makes more sense than the official story, but also makes Jesus a really calculating bastard.

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ISIS (ISIL) isn't a problem tbh. They number in the tens of thousands at best and is incapable to stand up to a modern disciplined army. What they are is the the fuse that that finally blew up the Sunni v Shiite powder keg that's otherwise known as Iraq. At this stage, a peaceful partition is the best outcome we can hopeful as long as it doesn't degenerate into a blood bath like the India/Pakistan partition of cause.

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Islam, The religion of war, Punching on since 600AD

 

The worst thing any civilised nation can do is get involved in that fight. This wouldnt have happened if we didnt enforce regime change

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This is not a crisis.

 

This is a natural effect of the failure of the left to accept that warranted criticism of The Religion of Pieces is not islamophobia but the natural reaction of people in secular surroundings that are simply TIRED of pointing out the fact that the only weapon of mass destruction in the Middle East is an Arab with a gun in one hand, a Koran in the other, with Saudi/Paki money in his pocket.

 

The bullshit brown Muslim people are allowed to get away with exceeds anything we've ever let slide in any "white" majority country.

 

We talked boycotts when Russia passed an anti-gay law. But we awarded Qatar the World Cup.

 

They fucking execute homosexuals in public and then Qataris dance and take pictures in their blood. They don't even have illusory elections like Russia. And unlike Russia, Qatar is almost entirely run by an underclass of imported virtual slaves.

 

Where's that in the press? Where are the UN Human rights Council Reports? Where's Human Rights Watch? Amnesty?

 

It is in this responsibility-free environment that infantilises Arabs through a assumption of lower civil expectation that ISIS is able to operate.

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FWIW Leonid, I'm on the left (whatever that means these days), and we all know my position on organised religion. While I admit to not knowing a whole lot about the history of this and past wars, I do agree that we need to allow ourselves and others to be critical of all ideas without exception. As for islamophobia, if I had a dollar coin every time I've heard that term misused, I'd buy myself a nice tropical island while solving world hunger. Criticism of Islam != islamophobia, unless you're also prejudiced against Muslims too. Muslim = human being, Islam = ideology. Not rocket science.

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FWIW Leonid, I'm on the left (whatever that means these days), and we all know my position on organised religion. While I admit to not knowing a whole lot about the history of this and past wars.......

AFAICT, to those guys it's just been the one very long war.

 

1400 years of Jihad.

 

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FWIW Leonid, I'm on the left (whatever that means these days), and we all know my position on organised religion. While I admit to not knowing a whole lot about the history of this and past wars, I do agree that we need to allow ourselves and others to be critical of all ideas without exception. As for islamophobia, if I had a dollar coin every time I've heard that term misused, I'd buy myself a nice tropical island while solving world hunger. Criticism of Islam != islamophobia, unless you're also prejudiced against Muslims too. Muslim = human being, Islam = ideology. Not rocket science.

Tell me how you manage not to be prejudiced against an absolutely gigantic body of Muslims (even if they are a minority) who form the core of everything that is wrong with Islam.

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Tell me how you manage not to be prejudiced against an absolutely gigantic body of Muslims (even if they are a minority) who form the core of everything that is wrong with Islam.

I'm against those who illicit violence and take away freedom of thought. I'm sure that covers the subset of Muslims you're referring to.

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"But we awarded Qatar the World Cup."

 

Who is this "we"? Is a bunch of bribe-taking assholes in FIFA suppose to represent Western society at large? Cos in case you haven't read any news, people aren't cool with that shit.

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I love how you get the same people who scream that Abbott is a homophobe whilst standing up for homophobic religious extremists saying we should be tolerant of their culture.

 

Religion is the soul reason the world cant get along yet people think we should respect the bigotted views of religions for some crazy reason.

 

Ah well, the battle for who's invisable friend is better rages on...

 

*meanwhile in Israel vs Gaza* (which im surprised there isnt a thread for)

Edited by xnatex

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"I love how you get the same people who scream that Abbott is a homophobe whilst standing up for homophobic religious extremists saying we should be tolerant of their culture."

 

Who are these "same people"? Are you referring to everyone who thinks Abbot is homophobic? Or just a subset of those people? How big a subset do you think that is?

 

I for one think Abbot is homophobic and I also don't give a shit about any cultural excuses a country feebly gives for oppressing their own citizens because they're yet to get out of the Middle Ages. And I suspect most people feel the same way.

 

Perhaps you're referring to main stream media which has been focusing disproportionally on Russia, perhaps due to this reason:

 

http://www.jjmccullough.com/index.php/2014...sed-minorities/

Edited by Oracle X

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Religion is the soul reason the world cant get along yet people think we should respect the bigotted views of religions for some crazy reason.

People don't 'get along' for a vast multitude of reasons. You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything.

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Religion is the soul reason the world cant get along yet people think we should respect the bigotted views of religions for some crazy reason.

People don't 'get along' for a vast multitude of reasons. You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything.

 

Let me just point out the title of this thread "The Islamic State (aka ISIS) Crisis"

 

" You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything."

 

Please tell me how religion is playing such a small role in this conflict that removing it wouldnt solve anything

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Religion is the soul reason the world cant get along yet people think we should respect the bigotted views of religions for some crazy reason.

People don't 'get along' for a vast multitude of reasons. You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything.

 

Let me just point out the title of this thread "The Islamic State (aka ISIS) Crisis"

 

" You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything."

 

Please tell me how religion is playing such a small role in this conflict that removing it wouldnt solve anything

 

Surely you're intentionally being obtuse

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Religion is the soul reason the world cant get along yet people think we should respect the bigotted views of religions for some crazy reason.

People don't 'get along' for a vast multitude of reasons. You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything.

 

Let me just point out the title of this thread "The Islamic State (aka ISIS) Crisis"

 

" You would gave to incredibly stupid to think that removing religion would somehow solve anything."

 

Please tell me how religion is playing such a small role in this conflict that removing it wouldnt solve anything

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point, much appreciated.

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If it wasnt for religion there would be no jihads and thats what we are talking about. What point are you trying to make? im missing it by a country mile

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If it wasnt for religion there would be no jihads and thats what we are talking about. What point are you trying to make? im missing it by a country mile

Yeah those bloody Buddhists are total scumbags.....

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If it wasnt for religion there would be no jihads and thats what we are talking about. What point are you trying to make? im missing it by a country mile

If there wasn't religion to dress this war up in there would be something else. It could be race or tribal, political or something else all you need is something to polarize people into us and them.

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