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how crap is this government ?

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17 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

Is it illegal to be taken advantage of?

 


you feel sorry for the smugglers ? 😉 

... just imagine if all those people trying to get to other countries... if they used that time energy and money and united with others they could overthrow the arses in their respective countries ...

 

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1 hour ago, eveln said:

Ya know ? I think Australia needs a wall .Obviously it's the answer to all the issues.

I mean heaven forbid the people don't stay in their own country and fight the evil fucking tyranny that might be there ... if the illegals have the money to pay the smugglers, just imagine what those people could do combining their various savings and working as a united front to make their homelands more amenable....

When're you moving back south, and giving up the nice warm teat of the Qld govt.

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1 hour ago, eveln said:


you feel sorry for the smugglers ? 😉 

... just imagine if all those people trying to get to other countries... if they used that time energy and money and united with others they could overthrow the arses in their respective countries ...

 

Maybe you could go over and help explain and organise it so they know what to do? 😛 

I'd prefer to take out the non fighters and then return those people to the country. They're the ones that will rebuild and strive for a more peaceful country.

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1 hour ago, Nich... said:

When're you moving back south, and giving up the nice warm teat of the Qld govt.

ummm when climate change turns Melbourne winters into Far Nth Qld winters.

 

1 hour ago, fliptopia said:

Maybe you could go over and help explain and organise it so they know what to do? 😛 

I'd prefer to take out the non fighters and then return those people to the country. They're the ones that will rebuild and strive for a more peaceful country.

I don't even have a passport let alone applying for a visa for any one of the many countries that people are fleeing from in droves that surpass any other time in history. Last thing I want to do is enter a foreign country without the right papers.

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6 hours ago, eveln said:

Last thing I want to do is enter a foreign country without the right papers.

And you figure that all those folks doing so are making a bad decision, because you know exactly what their circumstances are? 

Oh hang on, you don't. Maybe you just like to accept the invitation of fascist scumbags to cast judgement on those desperate enough to resort to such measures. 

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7 hours ago, eveln said:

ummm when climate change turns Melbourne winters into Far Nth Qld winter

 

That seems like it might happen sooner than waiting for some countries/regimes to not, say, criminalise being gay.

But as long as you're not cold, I guess it's ok.

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2 hours ago, Kimmo said:

And you figure that all those folks doing so are making a bad decision, because you know exactly what their circumstances are? 

Oh hang on, you don't. Maybe you just like to accept the invitation of fascist scumbags to cast judgement on those desperate enough to resort to such measures. 

I know as much about it as you do. << I'm making an executive guess there. Unless of course you know these peoples' circumstances intimately and are not just relying on your favourite tabloid for all your info ...

sure I can generalise as soundly as you and the next person, so, in amongst those tens of thousands on the move there are people running for their lives. but that's cos somehow they think other countries will just let them invade their country without too much of an issue ... cos you know there be strength in numbers an' all <<< which is exactly my point. If those numbers used their strength in their respective countries ...

 

49 minutes ago, Nich... said:

That seems like it might happen sooner than waiting for some countries/regimes to not, say, criminalise being gay.

touche. but you know the people being affected by that ^^^ are not making up the tens of thousands on the run these days .

Quote

But as long as you're not cold, I guess it's ok.

Exactly. I've made a move that is not against anyone's laws. I've paid my way legally to do so, and am following the laws of the State I choose to live in. I work, I pay rent, I buy my necessaries locally ...

I'm not rich. If I could've made my self warm in Vic. I dare say I would've staid ... but it's easier and cheaper to be physically comfortable in a tropical climate

Edited by eveln
I lost half my response to Kimmo :S

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Which laws are they breaking coming here?

Apart from, I guess, travelling without a male relative or chaperone, for some.

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1 hour ago, eveln said:

just let them invade their country 

...

a move that is not against anyone's laws

 We're talking about refugees.

Don't be accusing me of a tabloid mindset when you're the one regurgitating tabloid lies about the legal status of refugees. 

From the government itself:

Quote

Although those who come to Australia by boat seeking Australia’s protection are classified by Australian law to be ‘unlawful non-citizens’, they have a right to seek asylum under international law and not be penalised for their mode of entry.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1415/AsylumFacts

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What is an 'unlawful non-citizen' ?

Seems to me, that a lot of the intolerant issues that tens of thousands of people are fleeing from, are issues that in some cases, are tens of decades old... The countries being seen as safe harbours have not stood still in time.  Their populations have enlarged due to legal migration, etc. etc.

IMO, trying to support and give safe harbour to tens of thousands of people will in pretty quick time undermine the safety and healthful growth of those countries previously thought of as safe harbours. Unless of course we can suddenly produce the needed infrastructure that will allow all to thrive and live healthy lives. 

I don't pretend to have the answer to life death and the universe, but the present way of dealing with it all, is not making the countries that are seen as uninhabitable now, any more habitable.

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Maybe we should stop helping America fund civil wars creating these refugees?

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In 2014, refugees made up 3.4% of our population growth. 

Making refugees an issue is scapegoating and racist dog whistling. It's not an issue; certainly compared with the kind of shit the MSM lets conservative governments get away with, without a peep. 

Where were all those talkback arseholes and tabloid hacks when our rivers were being sold down the river? And what do they have to say about the scandalous extent to which public money is showered upon those who need it least, while vital services are bled dry? 

How about you worry about stuff that actually matters, instead of allowing a pack of shameless charlatans to play nasty political games with the very lives of the most unfortunate and vulnerable people that we're responsible for? 

Fucken hoodwinked. 

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20 minutes ago, Jeruselem said:

Maybe we should stop helping America fund civil wars creating these refugees?

... and yet we have the US gov. Being criticised for deciding to bring troops home .

Not really the fault of us or USA that some countries are religiously, morally, or politically inept.

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5 minutes ago, eveln said:

... and yet we have the US gov. Being criticised for deciding to bring troops home .

Not really the fault of us or USA that some countries are religiously, morally, or politically inept.

We complain about refugees when we tend to forget we help blow up their homes by proxy (unless it's the Chinese or Russian puppets to blame)

Edited by Jeruselem

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The U.S. has had a habit of sticking its nose in where it was not welcome for rather a long time it's true and Australia has often been taken along for the ride.

The decision to pull troops back from Syria is in my view correct  on the basis they really should not have interfered in the first place however it comes after a skirmish with Special Forces that receives different reports but sounds like quite a rumble so U.S. personnel definitely engaged.

The problem is that a withdrawal is not a simple task, something often overlooked when countries rush to war convinced they will prevail on the battlefield. Vietnam was obviously the biggest debacle but you could include others like Bay of Pigs with proxy warriors or looking from the other side the Argentinians in Falklands or as a hold in place the inability of the U.S. to get out of various places, Afghanistan among them or in extremis you could include South Korea where after over a half century U.S. forces remain there.

The Syrian presence is not large but it could turn nasty very quickly if it is a collapsing retreat, the only real way is all out in one fell swoop.

The U.S. Navy 7th fleet is pretty much going to have to be the mechanism for withdrawal which means choppers and multiple loads - it won't be easy.

Cheers

 

 

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3 hours ago, eveln said:

some countries are religiously, morally, or politically inept.

Name one country that isn't...

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... To the point of fleeing for your life ? Australia and  New Zealand for starters.

/... I guess "inept" could be seen as under stating 😉 

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Also, this whole line of chat came about 're people smugglers and borders ...just reminding you ...

So, that would be people not actually claiming to be anything until they are caught by the authorities. ...just sayin' 

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I don't think we should be involved in a bunch of wars we have been, but at the same time I think withdrawal should not make things worse, long term, which means more work than just packing up and leaving asap.  Part of our duty of care from being there.

2 hours ago, eveln said:

Also, this whole line of chat came about 're people smugglers and borders ...just reminding you ...

So, that would be people not actually claiming to be anything until they are caught by the authorities. ...just sayin' 

They need to make the asylum claim to the authorities, so how else should they be doing it, if not... To the authorities on entry?

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Given the smugglers are not trying   to deliver their customers through the right gates, then of course all those people will 'claim' asylum if and when they are found. 

Edited by eveln

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30 minutes ago, eveln said:

Given the smugglers are not trying   to deliver their customers through the right gates, then of course all those people will 'claim' asylum if and when they are found. 

It's not illegal to come to a country and ask for asylum. So being dropped on a beach is fine legally as long as you ask for asylum. Is there any evidence that this is not what they do? 

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1 hour ago, fliptopia said:

It's not illegal to come to a country and ask for asylum. So being dropped on a beach is fine legally as long as you ask for asylum. Is there any evidence that this is not what they do? 

Given I'm not border security, or sitting on the beach waiting for them I cannot supply you with evidence ... although if a tree falls in the forest but no one was there to witness it, did it make a sound ?

 

I meant to agree to the first part of your comment.

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24 minutes ago, eveln said:

Given I'm not border security, or sitting on the beach waiting for them I cannot supply you with evidence ... although if a tree falls in the forest but no one was there to witness it, did it make a sound ?

 

I meant to agree to the first part of your comment.

I think we've all heard stories of boats being damaged so the border patrol has to take them. I've heard of people asking for asylum on the beach. I don't know where that sits on the norm though. I suspect there are figures/estimates on how many people are ACTUALLY living here illegally. I believe the statistics show the vast majority of them are white people overstaying their visas though. 

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3 hours ago, eveln said:

although if a tree falls in the forest but no one was there to witness it, did it make a sound ?

i'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that when Stevie Wonder is alone at home and drops his guts, not only does Stevie hear it, it's also fairly musical. :P

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