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how crap is this government ?

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Brandis has proved to the Australian people that he is completely clueless, and an ignorant fool after this disaster of an interview on Sky News today.

 

George Brandis in 'car crash' interview over controversial data retention regime.

Could have just said "I don't know I'm not good on the tech stuff."

 

Sure, but then he would have been attacked about not knowing enough about what he was planning to implement. Because it seems that some people don't understand that ministers usually employ advisers for a reason...

 

Probably would... but I'd rather be attacked for not being 100% across policy than making the policy up on the spot. But that's me...

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Could have just said "I don't know I'm not good on the tech stuff."

 

could have just said "i don't know, we're not very good at this governing stuff" but honesty in politics is out of vogue

 

the previous labour front bench were pretty woeful, but these people must repeatedly regret that you can't win with a lay down misere

 

if australia ever needed the right tools for the job of government, now is that time, but ironically it has only acquired a bunch of right-wing tools

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Could have just said "I don't know I'm not good on the tech stuff."

 

could have just said "i don't know, we're not very good at this governing stuff" but honesty in politics is out of vogue

 

the previous labour front bench were pretty woeful, but these people must repeatedly regret that you can't win with a lay down misere

 

if australia ever needed the right tools for the job of government, now is that time, but ironically it has only acquired a bunch of right-wing tools

 

Like I said before - government was better before the masses were empowered with twitter.

 

With the 24 hour social news cycle, politicians are expected to have arseholes cleaner than most people's bed sheets. That leads to boring, inexperienced leaders who have only ever done the politics route.

 

If you think Abbott's bad, wait till you see what's coming as my generation which has it's entire life online for all to see, comes to power.

 

Sometimes not knowing, is a good thing.

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Could have just said "I don't know I'm not good on the tech stuff."

 

could have just said "i don't know, we're not very good at this governing stuff" but honesty in politics is out of vogue

 

the previous labour front bench were pretty woeful, but these people must repeatedly regret that you can't win with a lay down misere

 

if australia ever needed the right tools for the job of government, now is that time, but ironically it has only acquired a bunch of right-wing tools

 

Like I said before - government was better before the masses were empowered with twitter.

 

With the 24 hour social news cycle, politicians are expected to have arseholes cleaner than most people's bed sheets. That leads to boring, inexperienced leaders who have only ever done the politics route.

 

No it doesn't.

It means politicians are required to think and respond on their feet.

And there's no way in this or any life time these politicians from either camp, are ever gonna be capable of doing that in an intelligent and

focused and mature manner.

And as for actually knowing the policies and how they work ... "Wtf ? " politicians would have to actually comprehend something other than

the retirement monies they're syphoning away !

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Like I said before - government was better before the masses were empowered with twitter.

 

With the 24 hour social news cycle, politicians are expected to have arseholes cleaner than most people's bed sheets. That leads to boring, inexperienced leaders who have only ever done the politics route.

 

If you think Abbott's bad, wait till you see what's coming as my generation which has it's entire life online for all to see, comes to power.

 

Sometimes not knowing, is a good thing.

This whole post reeks of [citation needed].

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Could have just said "I don't know I'm not good on the tech stuff."

 

could have just said "i don't know, we're not very good at this governing stuff" but honesty in politics is out of vogue

 

the previous labour front bench were pretty woeful, but these people must repeatedly regret that you can't win with a lay down misere

 

if australia ever needed the right tools for the job of government, now is that time, but ironically it has only acquired a bunch of right-wing tools

 

Like I said before - government was better before the masses were empowered with twitter.

 

With the 24 hour social news cycle, politicians are expected to have arseholes cleaner than most people's bed sheets. That leads to boring, inexperienced leaders who have only ever done the politics route.

 

No it doesn't.

It means politicians are required to think and respond on their feet.

 

Which is not a good recipe for thoughtful and intelligent policy discussion. Just look at e recently released report on NBNCo formation by the Productivity Commission.

 

Thinking on your feet is great. But it's replaced thoughtful policy construction.

 

Hell, half our newspapers these days are running digital platforms with sex-based click bait and summaries of the latest thing on twitter.

 

 

Like I said before - government was better before the masses were empowered with twitter.

 

With the 24 hour social news cycle, politicians are expected to have arseholes cleaner than most people's bed sheets. That leads to boring, inexperienced leaders who have only ever done the politics route.

 

If you think Abbott's bad, wait till you see what's coming as my generation which has it's entire life online for all to see, comes to power.

 

Sometimes not knowing, is a good thing.

This whole post reeks of [citation needed].

 

Your mum reeks of [citation needed]

 

I go now... :)

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Could have just said "I don't know I'm not good on the tech stuff."

 

could have just said "i don't know, we're not very good at this governing stuff" but honesty in politics is out of vogue

 

the previous labour front bench were pretty woeful, but these people must repeatedly regret that you can't win with a lay down misere

 

if australia ever needed the right tools for the job of government, now is that time, but ironically it has only acquired a bunch of right-wing tools

 

Like I said before - government was better before the masses were empowered with twitter.

 

With the 24 hour social news cycle, politicians are expected to have arseholes cleaner than most people's bed sheets. That leads to boring, inexperienced leaders who have only ever done the politics route.

 

No it doesn't.

It means politicians are required to think and respond on their feet.

 

Which is not a good recipe for thoughtful and intelligent policy discussion. Just look at e recently released report on NBNCo formation by the Productivity Commission.

 

Thinking on your feet is great. But it's replaced thoughtful policy construction.

 

Hell, half our newspapers these days are running digital platforms with sex-based click bait and summaries of the latest thing on twitter.

 

 

You just like the look of your own posts. Here's the rest of mine ...

 

"And there's no way in this or any life time these politicians from either camp, are ever gonna be capable of doing that in an intelligent and

focused and mature manner.

And as for actually knowing the policies and how they work ... "Wtf ? " politicians would have to actually comprehend something other than

the retirement monies they're syphoning away ! " ...

 

I'm told that there are people who can use modern technology intelligently and constructively.

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The fall in taxation revenue during the GFC, plus the stimulus spending still comes nowhere near the turnaround amount in the overall financial situation.

 

To say that KRudd/Gillard were responsible spenders and that Howard splurged is ludicrous at the least.

And there are countless figures, graphs, reports to confirm it.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at, but my point is pretty simple.

 

That is that government spending as a proportion of GDP remained steady at around 25% of across the Howard/Rudd/Gillard years. This means that the Howard Government spent more because GDP was much higher pre-GFC.

 

They then doubled down by cutting taxes, mainly to benefit upper-middle and high income earners. The middle class, "Howard's Battlers" were handed gobs of welfare. The problem with cutting taxes to high income earners is that they tend to not spend it, but squirrel it away in investments - property, superannuation and the stock market, all of which generate little tax revenue and most of which attract further tax concessions.

 

That's the reality. They maintained spending as a proportion of GDP, but lowered tax to GDP ratios.

 

I'm happy to link graphs if you like!

Edited by Captain Awesome!

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We only suffered 2 quarters of contraction post-GFC, fair enough there were a good number under 1%growth but there was no recession.

 

In the later years of the Howard government, there were surpluses, so taxation revenue was in fact more than spending.

 

Post- GFC, taxation revenue did suffer, but Labor ignored it and just racked up the debt that we now have.

And, tax cuts? It was not so long ago that Labor wanted to reduce corporate tax, Liberal and the Greens opposed it.

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Post- GFC, taxation revenue did suffer, but Labor ignored it and just racked up the debt that we now have.

And, tax cuts? It was not so long ago that Labor wanted to reduce corporate tax, Liberal and the Greens opposed it.

It's not true that Labor didn't try to increase tax revenue. They attempted to:

 

- Reform FBT and Novated Leases - $1.8Bn

- Reform Superannuation - Up to $38Bn

- Introduce a (meaningful) Mining Tax - ?

- Introduced a Carbon Tax - ?

 

Deficit 2014/15 - $40Bn

 

Labor proposed to reform the superannuation tax loopholes, the Liberal Party opposed those reforms. To give you some sort of perspective on that, Superannuation tax breaks now costs around as much as the Age Pension. That kind of defeats the purpose of the Superannuation system, doesn't it? Close those loopholes and increased tax revenue pays for the Age Pension. Just tightening the loopholes could significantly offset the cost of Age Pensions.

 

Labor also proposed an eminently reasonable mining tax that would have seen mining companies pay tax at roughly the level that other companies pay tax. This was howled down by the Coalition.

 

And then there was (shudder) the Carbon Tax. A tax that actually did what it was designed to do - raise revenue and reduce carbon emissions. The Coalition's plan is to scrap that and instead pay more corporate welfare to companies to NOT pollute.

 

It's absolutely true that Labor shot itself in the foot on a lot of these issues, particularly the Mining Tax. But had the Coalition gone along with these sensible reforms, the budget would be back in surplus, and we could continue to pay for all of the services the Federal Government is now cutting, most importantly Health and Education. The Coalition is hardly alone in opposing sensible reforms, but lets not rewrite history.

 

Also - you mentioned that Labor wanted to lower corporate tax. That's true. But that tax cut was to be funded by the Mining Tax.

Edited by Captain Awesome!

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They brought in the mining tax, and it performed woefully, raising a fraction of expected revenue while at the same time discouraging exploration and investment, especially by startup and smaller outfits.

There is no way the mining tax would have funded a cut in corporate tax... that is unless they wanted to reduce it by about .05% which would have been a practically pointless exercise.

 

At the end of the day though, the fact remains - federal debt went into a spiral and they resorted to fudging the books to make it look like spending was being reeled in by pre-allocating funds in their second last FY to make their last FY to look much better than it actually was.

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The public disagrees with the OP

 

During the Rudd/ Hillard years, each time either of them made an announcement, the economy would slow for a few days

 

Now it does not matter what Tony says, most of his decision do not effect the general population, thus most people don't care

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They brought in the mining tax, and it performed woefully, raising a fraction of expected revenue while at the same time discouraging exploration and investment, especially by startup and smaller outfits.

They brought in a watered down version of the Mining Tax, yes.

 

The Coalition opposed it in its original form which would have raised billions. As it stands it raises a few million. The original tax was estimated by Treasury to raise over $22Bn over four years. They continued to oppose the watered down version.

There is no way the mining tax would have funded a cut in corporate tax... that is unless they wanted to reduce it by about .05% which would have been a practically pointless exercise.

You can do the sums yourself:

 

Company Tax raised $68Bn in FY2012/13.

 

So the potential was there to reduce Company Tax by up to 8% on the Mining Tax alone. I'm not suggesting they intended on doing that (they didn't), but you can see that a substantial cut could have been paid for by the tax alone - a hell of a lot more than your .05%

 

At the end of the day though, the fact remains - federal debt went into a spiral and they resorted to fudging the books to make it look like spending was being reeled in by pre-allocating funds in their second last FY to make their last FY to look much better than it actually was.

Whilst it might be your opinion that the debt "went into spiral", it's certainly not a fact. Economists generally agree that there is no "debt crisis" and that the current debt is more than sustainable. Australia has AAA stable ratings with all of the ratings agencies. As for fudging the books, well that's pretty much a standard play unfortunately.

 

Just take a look a Hockey's budget.

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-06/icac...resumes/5650350

More revelations, Mike Gallacher, Chris Hartcher and former Newcastle mayor all fingered (again).

 

7 forced to the cross bench so far and a premier and Sinodinos deposed. Interesting times.

 

 

 

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/joe-tripodi-gave...0806-3d8xt.html

Tinklers power is across party lines however. Money talks.

Edited by Hlass

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The public disagrees with the OP

 

During the Rudd/ Hillard years, each time either of them made an announcement, the economy would slow for a few days

 

Now it does not matter what Tony says, most of his decision do not effect the general population, thus most people don't care

to which public are you referring ? by all means offer an opinion, but don't pretend it's a fact or that your thoughts are everyman's

 

my surmise is that both sides of politics are so shit that it's not that the public doesn't care, but that the facade of them having any influence on which team runs the place is now an open secret and thus voters are obligingly disinterested

 

it's not like labor offer a competent alternative - shorten is painfully lacking in charisma or substance, and the hierarchy of the party structure makes it as rusted on as the liberals - career politicians all; the only discernible difference is the mechanism to rise to a seat ; the liberals are "born to rule" and the labors are "union people" who appear to have rarely actually done any labour (maybe that's why they changed the spelling to labor?)

 

shit, it's not like the current liberals offer any excellence to dethrone king tony internally either, because their most pragmatic option (turnbull) is on the nose in his own party for being too "small L" liberal, although at least he has the track record of being successfully independently rich without needing parliament to keep him off the streets, and has more idea about money that joe hockey has demonstrated thus far

 

unfortunately i still haven't forgiven him his role as howard's lapdog during the constitutional convention, but in spite of that mark against him he is still by far the best of a bad lot

 

to paraphrase your final comment "Now it does not matter what any politician on either side says as they disown it at a whim, most of the decisions do not have any input from the general population, thus most people are resigned to mediocrity in government"

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cherry picking 'facts' to point out the good or bad side of any political party is pointless. All the major parties have screwed up royally in recent times, and they have all put forward reasonable policies as well.

 

Those who want to support one side pick out the mistakes of the other and visa versa. Nobody is enlightened, nobody changes their PoV, same same...

 

Yep, I'm generalising, so shoot me :)

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I love how when confronted with how terrible this government has been for all involved the best the apologists can come up with is 'but but but Labor did this!'

 

Like that somehow makes terrible governance OK and excuses everything.

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i would like to think that my disdain for politicians is bipartisan

 

and i stand by my opening post that despite the previous government being woeful, we are plumbing new depths

 

as repeatedly i note that whilst the fanbois of liberal fiscal management cheer the urgent management of an artificially designated "financial crisis", they seem to steadfastly avoid comment on the embarrassment of a prime minister and entourage who show no compassion, vision or indeed humanity

 

blaming the mechanism of government for lack of progress is a workman blaming his tools; repeatedly broadcasting the inadequacies of the previous incumbents isn't actually changing that status for the better

 

and failing to salute or maintain any good ideas by the previous government is simply stupid

 

the reactionary nature of current governments is such that there is no consensus to do appropruate things for the general benefit of the majority of australians - if the other team like it, you must oppose; if the other team thought of it, there is no possible value

 

here we live under an opposition that had power ceded to them by an inept prior government, and like a dog chasing a car, having caught up they have no idea about the next step because it never occurred to them that it wasn't all about the chase

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I love how when confronted with how terrible this government has been for all involved the best the apologists can come up with is 'but but but Labor did this!'

 

Like that somehow makes terrible governance OK and excuses everything.

We need a like button.

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I love how when confronted with how terrible this government has been for all involved the best the apologists can come up with is 'but but but Labor did this!'

 

Like that somehow makes terrible governance OK and excuses everything.

Lol, and it was COMPLETELY different when Labor were in power :P

 

If I had a dollar for every time during the Gillard/Rudd reign where I heard "But it was worse under Howard". Even in this thread...

 

EDIT : Oh, I guess I should answer the title of the thread :) The current government is 15% crappier than the previous government who were 10% crappier than the one before that. Before that and I get a little hazy :)

Edited by Mac Dude

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I love how when confronted with how terrible this government has been for all involved the best the apologists can come up with is 'but but but Labor did this!'

 

Like that somehow makes terrible governance OK and excuses everything.

Yeah I still get a giggle out of people who think that one party is better than the other.

 

From what I see you are ALL correct, this government IS worse than the last one. The issue is that the last one was worse than the one before it, and that was worse than the one before IT. We are simply witnessing a procession of bad government, each one worse than the one before it. Appealing to party politics is unhelpful and naive.

 

Vote below the line folks, it's our only hope.

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I love how when confronted with how terrible this government has been for all involved the best the apologists can come up with is 'but but but Labor did this!'

 

Like that somehow makes terrible governance OK and excuses everything.

Lol, and it was COMPLETELY different when Labor were in power :P

 

If I had a dollar for every time during the Gillard/Rudd reign where I heard "But it was worse under Howard". Even in this thread...

 

EDIT : Oh, I guess I should answer the title of the thread :) The current government is 15% crappier than the previous government who were 10% crappier than the one before that. Before that and I get a little hazy :)

 

I agree with you. 'This party did this' should never be used an excuse for the incumbent's bad behaviour.

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I agree with you. 'This party did this' should never be used an excuse for the incumbent's bad behaviour.

Riiiight because when a new government comes into power everything gets reset and previous actions have no effect....

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I agree with you. 'This party did this' should never be used an excuse for the incumbent's bad behaviour.

Riiiight because when a new government comes into power everything gets reset and previous actions have no effect....

 

Riiiiiight, because I said this applied to previous circumstances and not retarded policies instated well after the election...

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Petition started here for those who care.

 

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/asio_in_your_em...mfb&v=43595

 

George Brandis is trying to rush through a plan to monitor ALL internet traffic in Australia. Mandatory metadata retention would mean that every phone call, every tweet, every email would be stored and law enforcement would be able to access it without a warrant. It’s a huge privacy breach, but we can stop this plan before it becomes law.

 

The government is blundering attempts to explain exactly what they want to collect and why. Those that do know, like the ISP companies that will be burdened with collecting the data, are vocal opponents to the plan. One of the bill’s authors, Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has opposed similar moves in the past and as the founder of internet company, Ozemail, he knows the negative impact the bill will have.

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