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how crap is this government ?

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4 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

The AFP report to the Department of Home Affairs, Herr Dutton.

 

No they don’t. They are responsible to him as an independent department within Home Affairs.

 

He is not much more than an administrator in much the same way the Immigration Minister is technically responsible for all children on Nauru.

 

Oversight of the AFP and ability to query investigations and investigators belongs to a Joint committee in parliament.

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58 minutes ago, Leonid said:

if you take economics lessons from The Guardian columnists

 

Did you not just see me disagree with those conclusions?  The numbers quoted, otoh, are not simply a matter of opinion.

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35 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 

Did you not just see me disagree with those conclusions?  The numbers quoted, otoh, are not simply a matter of opinion.

 

Numbers are a funny thing.

 

Bearing in mind this guy’s previous column re Greens/Labor merger for a climate catastrophe - did he consider the numbers that show that no matter what we do to our own emissions, climate will not revert/improve due to Chinese/Indian emissions growth eclipsing anything the West could do by combined reduction?

 

I love numbers. But this guy’s an opinion columnist for a rag that basically shills for Team “Smash Capitalism”. Take it with a grain of salt. There are other numbers, to be sure.

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11 minutes ago, Leonid said:

climate will not revert/improve due to Chinese/Indian emissions growth eclipsing anything the West could do by combined reduction?

on that note ^^  ... knowing the above full well, some of us are still majorly for digging up our coal ( or rather, having questionable Asian mining companies come in and do it )  and trying to sell it to them ...

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

on that note ^^  ... knowing the above full well, some of us are still majorly for digging up our coal ( or rather, having questionable Asian mining companies come in and do it )  and trying to sell it to them ...

 

Rome was not built in a day. Coal mining "needs" to be replaced as an industry where it provides jobs and livelihoods.

 

You cannot throw blue-collar workers under the bus in profitable industries. You just can't. These aren't highly educated people, re-training them isn't as simple as retraining an inner-city barista into a sandwich artiste. 

 

There's not a lot of work out where they live.

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Shame we can't just have then dig up rare earth minerals, instead.

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6 hours ago, Leonid said:

You cannot throw blue-collar workers under the bus in profitable industries.

I agree.

However when the company /s 'approved ' are not proven of sound financial or business acumen how smart of any Gov. is it to allow them to come in and destroy super large areas of otherwise usable land and water sources ?

 

6 hours ago, Leonid said:

These aren't highly educated people

Bollocks. Talk about pigeon holing.

These people have been told there are thousands of jobs to be had, so of course they're waiting for them ... truth is with modern machinery there are not thousands of jobs going begging anymore

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Maybe I'm a bit of a cynical asshole, but I'm going to laugh really really hard when those jobs get given to robots and 457 visas.

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3 hours ago, Nich... said:

Shame we can't just have then dig up rare earth minerals, instead.

 

Hope we can find some in Newtown.

 

Then we can set up gulags just like the lefties like it.

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

I agree.

However when the company /s 'approved ' are not proven of sound financial or business acumen how smart of any Gov. is it to allow them to come in and destroy super large areas of otherwise usable land and water sources ?

 

Bollocks. Talk about pigeon holing.

These people have been told there are thousands of jobs to be had, so of course they're waiting for them ... truth is with modern machinery there are not thousands of jobs going begging anymore

 

Almost every bit of land bar arid desert is usable for something. The problem is the more usable it is, the more uses it has. It is quite possible that mining a parcel of land is more profitable than its alternate more environmentally benign use.

 

Also there is a fairly big educational gap between blue collar and white collar workers. There’s also a significant gap between tertiary educated numbers between city and country. Not to mention the logical reality that educational opportunity varies with wealth and remoteness.

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1 hour ago, Leonid said:

 

Almost every bit of land bar arid desert is usable for something. The problem is the more usable it is, the more uses it has. It is quite possible that mining a parcel of land is more profitable than its alternate more environmentally benign use.

Re Adani in particular,profitable is not nearly a given, for neither the short or long  term... How profitable is that land going to be for any of us once Adani are finished with it ?

 

1 hour ago, Leonid said:

 

Also there is a fairly big educational gap between blue collar and white collar workers. There’s also a significant gap between tertiary educated numbers between city and country. Not to mention the logical reality that educational opportunity varies with wealth and remoteness.

Didn't know we were comparing collars.

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1 hour ago, eveln said:

Re Adani in particular,profitable is not nearly a given, for neither the short or long  term... How profitable is that land going to be for any of us once Adani are finished with it ?

 

Who said Adani’s not profitable?

Also mining companies must make good once completed.

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8 minutes ago, Leonid said:

 

Who said Adani’s not profitable?

Also mining companies must make good once completed.

For a start, the banks and financial institutions that don't want to give them money.

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

For a start, the banks and financial institutions that don't want to give them money.

 

Anti-coal activism could be the reason for that. Banks get social shit from Newtownies (who don’t have any money anyway) for funding resources projects.

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5 hours ago, Leonid said:

Also mining companies must make good once completed.

A few years ( may be more ) back the ABC showed a doco about Adani, but the doco focused more on another mining company not doing the right thing in India . No, I cannot recall the name of the company in question, only that Adani's present owner was affiliated with the Indian one also. Anyway biz went south and India was left with a polluted rotting mess ... now I realise we have stricter laws here, but tell me how are we gonna make these people adhere to them ? Fine them ? Hah ! Good luck with that ... and how the fuck is a fine gonna cure the land and bring the water back ?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Cybes said:

 

Sorry, I don't do twitter. There are other sewers I can find which are far more pleasant.

 

The Conversation: "But it would represent a huge bet on the long-term future of coal-fired electricity, at very bad odds."

Totes.

 

image.png.5092854d1bde10b4ecc6536c161cdeb3.png

 

 

5 hours ago, eveln said:

but tell me how are we gonna make these people adhere to them

 

Same way we made Facebook and Google pay more taxes in this country. India is a member of the WTO and OECD.

 

And they play ball.

Edited by Leonid

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58 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Sorry, I don't do twitter. There are other sewers I can find which are far more pleasant.

 

Ordinarily, neither do I.  But many others do, including a few who are actually worth reading - and who don't post on more sensible platforms.

 

You don't need Twitter installed, your browser should cope as a reader.

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1 hour ago, Cybes said:

You don't need Twitter installed, your browser should cope as a reader.

 

exactly.  and even then, i only monitor a handful of accounts by cherry picking from them as an RSS feed.

 

https://twitrss.me/

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21 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

Same way we made Facebook and Google pay more taxes in this country. India is a member of the WTO and OECD.

 

And they play ball.

As yet, Facebook and Google don't dig up our land

... well let's hope Adani do play ball . And if they don't, Leonid I hope that you and your respective cronies are there to pick up the many thousands of pieces

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13 hours ago, eveln said:

As yet, Facebook and Google don't dig up our land

... well let's hope Adani do play ball . And if they don't, Leonid I hope that you and your respective cronies are there to pick up the many thousands of pieces

 

Yes FB and Google don’t dig up our land. They just invade our privacy and sell data to the highest bidder.

 

Adani just want to extract minerals. And it’s not exactly as if this is the first foreign-owned mine in Australia. They all play ball.

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10 hours ago, Leonid said:

... And it’s not exactly as if this is the first foreign-owned mine in Australia.

I'm not sure how that statement makes it all okay.

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4 hours ago, eveln said:

I'm not sure how that statement makes it all okay.

 

It means others have cleaned up in Australia, even though they have less than stellar records back in their countries. Why wouldn't Adani?

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Posted (edited)

https://ensia.com/features/australia-mine-rehabilitation/

"...

Kakadu is the jewel in the crown of Australia’s national parks, but this unique wilderness is also home to one of the world’s largest uranium mines. The Ranger mine has been operational since 1980 but its time is drawing to a close; mining ended in 2012, and processing of the remaining stockpiled ore is expected to finish in 2020.

So what then for the mine site? It’s a question being asked with increasing urgency around Australia as the mining boom that has powered the Australian economy for nearly 15 years wanes. There are as many as 60,000 abandoned mine sites, some in otherwise pristine ecosystems found nowhere else on earth.

And Australia isn’t the only place dealing with mine retirement and subsequent rehabilitation efforts. ... "

 

There's more interesting stuff in the article still

 

edit : more from the link

"...

An Acceptable End Product

In Australia, responsibility for mine site restoration lies with the mining companies, and regulatory oversight lies with various state bodies such as the New South Wales Resources Regulator. But Curtin University’s Dixon argues mine rehabilitation isn’t nearly as well managed as it could be.

“The legislative processes that protect the Australian people and the landscapes when a mining approval is given, appear now to be grossly inadequate to achieve what would be a publicly acceptable end product,” he says.

Even the mining industry acknowledges it has made mistakes in the past, although it is keen to put its best foot forward for the future. ..."

Edited by eveln

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:30 AM, Leonid said:

 

Almost every bit of land bar arid desert is usable for something. The problem is the more usable it is, the more uses it has. It is quite possible that mining a parcel of land is more profitable than its alternate more environmentally benign use.

 

So, you say there isn't much work up there. You also say here that the land is usable. Why does it need to be used for something that's more profitable (short term)? Adani has a terrible record, both financially and ecologically. They've been proven to not play ball. Surely there are many other more sustainable things that could be grown on the land. You know what I see as a factor? It might affect the water available to places like Cubbie Station in times of drought. If only the government was more mindful of what they leased our land for. If anything makes a profit, even only a small one, someone will invest in it.

 

Please note that I do think drought and floods are a big problem. I also believe coal use is a major factor in this, and deforestation is another. Mining will not improve either.

 

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