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scruffy1

how crap is this government ?

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1 hour ago, Jeruselem said:

 

Even if we had much lower wages, we could not compete with literal slave wage rates in Asia or Mexico anyway.


Then how do ze Germans do it? Romanians? 

1 hour ago, Kimmo said:

 

I love how every time Leo complains about the minimum wage, there's never any mention of Sydney and Melbourne having some of the highest cost of living in the world. Which would largely be due to decades of leaning on real estate for economic growth, without a care in the world for those who don't have a leg-up into the investor class, or coming up with any sort of way to base our economy on adding any sort of value...

 


I love how our resident commie forgets that the reason we have some of the highest living costs in the world is because it costs so friggin’ much to build infrastructure in this country because of huge labour costs.

 

I also like how he forgets that our car industry was on taxpayer life support and if you take the commie view that the rich pay no taxes, then the obvious logic is that the car industry was on middle and lower class taxpayer life support.

 

Ask ANY small business owner in Australia what they think about business policies in Australia.

 

The next employee I hire will be my sixth (for the communist: hiring is when you ask someone to work for you without threat of gulag or genocide and they accept to be remunerated in line with market values).

 

Upon hiring my sixth employee the wonderful government will slap me with payroll taxes. I’m literally paying taxes on salaries I pay. This country penalises businesses for generating jobs.

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We have the highest minimum legal wage in the world. Some of the highest income taxes (until this year the top marginal tax rate hasn’t moved down in 30 years!!!!). Some of the highest company tax rates. Some of the highest import costs.

 

And you guys actually want our economy to be something other than financial services, tourism, construction and digging stuff outta the ground?

 

We pooh-poohed special economic zones to reduce taxes for high-tech startups so in the top 1000 SaaS startups of 2019, we have like 2.

 

Jesus tittyfucking Christ. Do you people not actually understand what high taxation and high labour cost does to an economy?

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Yeah, Leo, it has for a long time.

 

It is some bizarre variation on tall poppy syndrome. You'd be better of starting another business and do your five.

 

That's not really an answer though , is it ?

 

So, what do you propose, that wont send the place broke in the process ?

 

You are absolutely right, infrastructure costs here are high as a consequence of low population on a large landmass that cannot support too many more people at the moment.

 

We have too many levels of government all paying themselves too much but good luck getting them to take a wage cut.

 

Meanwhile we seem to play pass-the-parcel with real estate until someone gets caught with a sinker.

 

It genuinely is one very strange economy.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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I dunno the full picture but first thing: radical drop in all taxes to OECD average.

Second: prioritise certain fields such as aerospace, tech and materials science and allow companies to import skill from select countries with the dangled carrot of citizenship after 2yrs.

Third: Drop Company taxes in regional centres for the manufacturing industry to something token - like 5%, to encourage population growth outside Sydney.

Fourth: ban construction of any solar or wind energy resources, nuclear to be built after deregulation legislation to make the cost less astronomical.

 

I dunno. I got ideas but the biggest problem are Australians. Too many people reckon business is the enemy.

 

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Its genuinely frustrating how myopic people like Kimmo are.

 

They keep on whining like little bitches about billionaires and how they pay no tax yet it’s fucken billionaires developing tech to slow down the rate of coal use expansion in the West.

 

Two billionaires - Musk and Bezos are our backup plan. They’re our way off this rock. “Oh” you say, “but what about an economy that doesn’t reward sociopaths?”. Sure. That’s an economy that handbrakes the most ambitious without ever lifting the least - you end up with an economy of the lowest common denominator or as I like to call it - “the Kimmo Economy”

 

How did Musk and Bezos become billionaires? By innovating in economies that award ultra-ambitious sociopaths.

 

Like most founders I suspect I have a few sociopathic tendencies. I work like a dog in the hope that one day I’m on the Mediterranean on my own boat and can afford to drop $100 on a tip at a bar. 
 

But along the way I’ve generated economic stimulus by employing people at good moolah to work for me. I’ve also helped other partner companies get bigger by finding them business. I’ve been tax-positive since I was 19.

 

In some fucked up world, a downright waste of oxygen that calls itself Kinmo that has probably never been tax positive in its life and whose only distinctive feature is a zombie-proof cranium - dares to have a whinge about the unfairness of it all because he doesn’t see the economic benefits I may do.

Edited by Leonid

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58 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Yeah, Leo, it has for a long time.

 

It is some bizarre variation on tall poppy syndrome. You'd be better of starting another business and do your five.

 

That's not really an answer though , is it ?

 

So, what do you propose, that wont send the place broke in the process ?

 

You are absolutely right, infrastructure costs here are high as a consequence of low population on a large landmass that cannot support too many more people at the moment.

 

We have too many levels of government all paying themselves too much but good luck getting them to take a wage cut.

 

Meanwhile we seem to play pass-the-parcel with real estate until someone gets caught with a sinker.

 

It genuinely is one very strange economy.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

The problem we have from the boom of last 20 years is we've been sending raw materials to other countries (and they send it back as finished goods at a much higher price) for so long that we just didn't bother to make stuff any more.

It seems all that money got poured into building property and in the 1980s when privatization pretty much let loose developers to build whatever they wanted.

Hence apartments everywhere at breakneck speeds and built so fast, building standards were well ... forgotten about. Governments and councils grew addicted to property taxes. Banks lending money out without care as well because they could.

 

So what did get from the boom?

Lots of apartments which will probably be torn down before 20 years due to construction faults. Most focused on Melb and Sydney. A lot of it built on toxic reclaimed land!

A bigger services sector

A bigger public sector

Bigger banks who swallowed small rivals, and are now at risk of falling over because they overextended themselves lending out too much money (and their gambling on the markets with trillions in derivatives)

More roads and more privatized roads

 

What didn't really happen

Better public transport including better trains

More investment in water infrastructure

No additional coal power stations like some wanted (private companies didn't want to spend the billions building the things, neither did governments)

 

Corporations seem be these days making money from not making stuff but simply moving tax centers out of Australia and then using tax loopholes (ones as big as Airbus A380s).

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2 sides of a different coin - I'd be more concerned if there were no  you and no Kimmo as much as I would be vice versa.

 

Those billionaires of yours are both American or are at least mostly in America, which is currently one badly fucked up country., by a fraud billionaire.

 

I am very much in favor of both their space efforts but we will not get off this rock in time, we need to be taking far better care of it.

 

I'd be very, very happy to see those industries you mention expand in Australia, but it is not going to happen overnight.

 

I have no issue with thorium nuclear, I do with uranium.

 

We are both idealists, all we can do is tilt at windmills and hope, but never give up.

 

Cheers

 

edit. Yeah J... very, very frustrating and totally true.

 

 

 

Edited by chrisg

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2 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

Like most founders I suspect I have a few sociopathic tendencies. I work like a dog in the hope that one day I’m on the Mediterranean on my own boat and can afford to drop $100 on a tip at a bar. 

and the people you be dropping that $100 tip to will bloody need it to feed their selves.

 

... but I suspect you'll be white haired and a bit gnarly by the time you allow yourself the Mediterranean and a boat ! You've got school and uni fees  to pay for and, taxes dude 😛

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2 hours ago, chrisg said:

2 sides of a different coin - I'd be more concerned if there were no  you and no Kimmo as much as I would be vice versa.

 

Oddly the solution to that is Communism. People like him are the first layer of the mass grave.

 

I survive.

 

2 hours ago, chrisg said:

Those billionaires of yours are both American or are at least mostly in America

 

Yes - because it's the country which really allows entrepreneurs to unlock their ambition.

 

Lets go down the list of the world's most innovative countries:

  1. Switzerland
  2. Sweden
  3. USA
  4. The Netherlands
  5. UK
  6. Finland
  7. Denmark
  8. Singapore
  9. Germany
  10. Israel

All of these countries have one or more of the following:

  • Low taxes
  • Extremely open economies
  • Tax breaks for start-ups
  • A culture of shutting the fuck up and working
2 hours ago, chrisg said:

I'd be very, very happy to see those industries you mention expand in Australia, but it is not going to happen overnight.

 

Wanna bet? If Scomo picks up the phone to Musk and says "Mate I've some land for you in QLD near an old port, half an hour inland. No neighbours for miles. I'll throw a few billion for you to help you establish and you pay no corporate taxes subject to your team contributing as guest lecturers in our unis and bringing up our engineering faculties. You've got 10 years, zero tax"

 

He'll be here fucken tomorrow and have a rocket launch within a year.

 

2 hours ago, chrisg said:

but we will not get off this rock in time

 

Not if we keep listening to Communists and making billionaires our enemy.

2 minutes ago, eveln said:

and uni fees  to pay for

 

I never finished uni :)

 

By the time I was half way through 2nd year uni I was on $100k equivalent (working 3 days a week). I opened up Seek, saw that engineers were earning $45k for the first 5 years and quit my Elec Eng degree a week later.

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Hmm,

 

 I'm not listening to communists, by the way I do not think Kimmo is one, and I do not regard billionaires as enemies, I do regard them as dangerous sometimes - forgive me for saying but I'm not sure Musk has hit a target yet and Bezos is still dreaming large but yet to do anything.

 

They can make a difference but until entire nations get behind a space programme we are not going to make it and an unfortunately failed moon attempt aside only one of those nations has committed to get back to space. Which it will not do unless there is a financial upside for the man currently in charge no matter what he says.

 

NASA is still not getting enough funding and as much as what Musk and Bezos to a lesser degree at the moment are doing they still need National backing.

 

Not to make too big a point of it but Trump will just fuck it up, it needs adults in charge, not that loser.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, chrisg said:

by the way I do not think Kimmo is one

 

He's a Western Communist. The Trotsky. The guy who gets ice-picked. The first layer of the mass grave.

 

western-communists-slavic-communists-eat

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34 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Lets go down the list of the world's most innovative countries: 

  1. Switzerland
  2. Sweden
  3. USA
  4. The Netherlands
  5. UK
  6. Finland
  7. Denmark
  8. Singapore
  9. Germany
  10. Israel

 

 

I found the source of that list. 11 to 20 has a lot of centrally controlled Asian countries ...

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not your uni fees Leonid ;) ... I'm tryng to think up a catchy name for Leonid's offspring

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the only problem in a leonid fantasy of a dog eat dog world is that you end up with a monoculture of fat dogs

 

and not everyone is capable of (or even more commonly, inspired to care to have a go at) being a fat dog

 

 

 

the idea of unbridled expansion as a goal is as attractive as the concept of a fart in a vaccuum

 

success is a personal concept, not a mandatory capitalist paradigm

 

 

good luck with your plans, leo, but by no means "all power" to your idea of what life is about

and stop bitching about paying rent for your place in a relatively stable (though inert and ineptly managed) country

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2 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

the only problem in a leonid fantasy of a dog eat dog world is that you end up with a monoculture of fat dogs


No, you just end up with no tall poppy syndrome. Wouldn’t that be wonderful?

 

2 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

 

the idea of unbridled expansion as a goal is as attractive as the concept of a fart in a vaccuum


I’ve seen and have heard of the effects of the alternative. Australia is populated by hundreds of thousands to millions of people who ran from that.

 

2 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

and stop bitching about paying rent for your place


I don’t pay rent for my place. 
 

I only bitch about the fact that Too many Australians are fundamentally economically clueless. It seems you’re one of them.

 

If you can’t understand why payroll tax is fucken stupid, I really can’t help you.

4 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

 

I found the source of that list. 11 to 20 has a lot of centrally controlled Asian countries ...


That mostly have low taxes and a culture of “shut the fuck up and work”?

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4 hours ago, Rybags said:

WTF is the gender of that?

 

I believe that's aliusgender.

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10 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

I don’t pay rent for my place.

 

 

you do actually; it's called tax, but that's essentially what it is, and your place is australia, and australian business

 

 

10 hours ago, Leonid said:


I only bitch about the fact that Too many Australians are fundamentally economically clueless. It seems you’re one of them.

 

 

 

no, it's just i'm clued up in a way that doesn't fit in your box

 

 

10 hours ago, Leonid said:


No, you just end up with no tall poppy syndrome. Wouldn’t that be wonderful?

 

 

if you really like fat dogs i guess it would be heaven

 

but who will be collecting their turds in a plastic bag, and where will they put them so the stench doesn't make the populace gag

 

i know - let's get them launched into the sun

 

oh wait,  top dogs have a belief that their shit doesn't stink

 

 

 

if the planet had a monoculture of uber successful people, then relativity would suggest that there wouldn't be any tall poppies, but the new normality would be like pond scum on a taller scale - monotonously level and completely covering their niche

 

despite your love of the idea that money (and the requisite expansion of a nebulous economy to drive that) is the most important thing, you won't find the entire planet nodding in agreement

 

 

making money, or even generating the means to make money is not the singular measure of success

 

you've got children - i expect they'll educate you on that aspect eventually when you grow up

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1 hour ago, scruffy1 said:

you do actually; it's called tax, but that's essentially what it is, and your place is australia, and australian business


by the same logic, your place is Australia so please quit whining about billionaires not paying tax and the high cost of living or the high cost of property.

 

Accept all the faults.

1 hour ago, scruffy1 said:

no, it's just i'm clued up in a way that doesn't fit in your box


Yes - you’re clued up in the way that indicates simple economic cause and effect that doesn’t frame a certain class as the good guys is beyond you.

1 hour ago, scruffy1 said:

if you really like fat dogs i guess it would be heaven


I don’t like millionaires and billionaires. I don’t dislike them either. They aren’t stealing from me or anyone I know from my housing commission neighbours across the road to my millionaire office fitout developer friend.

 

Unlike certain people I don’t have a jealous bone in my body - I don’t need to drag anyone down in the Australian economy to pull myself up.

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2 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

making money, or even generating the means to make money is not the singular measure of success

 

you've got children - i expect they'll educate you on that aspect eventually when you grow up


the only measure of success is that your children do better than you at everything.

 

That means I will be educating my children in finance an economics so that they do better than me in that sphere.

 

And one day maybe your descendants can look to my kids on how to build multi-generational success in wealth.

 

There’s a myth that money doesn’t buy happiness. The reality is that it just makes you able to afford things that make you happy. It’s no accident that the most philanthropic are the ultra-rich.


One of my personal dreams is to contribute to the AIEF which is a corporate charity. They take corporate donations and distribute it to Aboriginal kids with aptitude and ambition. These donations put these kids in top private schools across the country to build networks for their working lives.

 

My company is so so close to being able to afford that.

 

That would make me very happy.

 

And I will be teaching my kids that money buys philanthropy and provides happiness potential if you use it in the way that makes you happy.

 

You and Kimmo will still be whining and bitching.

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*Sad Smile*

 

Your kids will possibly follow you, but do not be surprised if they rebel, kids mostly do.

 

I'm absolutely nothing like my parents, nor is my sister or youngest brother. My younger brother made a career in painting and decorating and is brilliant at it - my dad took it on so bro could be apprenticed but he hated it and when bro was qualified he quit and went into gardening. My deceased sister was nothing like either of my parents either.

 

My kids are just the same, one is deep, deep into craft and extremely good at it the other is a budding artist. I have never had much interest in craft and I cannot draw to save my life. Their mother has some interest in sewing but our daughter is far beyond that and their mother cannot draw either.

 

Kids will be what they choose to be and if you have any sense you will let them find out for themselves what that is and then encourage them in every way possible.

 

Cheers

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21 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Your kids will possibly follow you, but do not be surprised if they rebel, kids mostly do.

 

My experience is kids rebel when they have parents that don't let them do anything.

 

My 5yo has had a taste of beer, wine and plays outside by herself in the common estate area without helicoptering. 

 

When she's 6 or 7 we'll let her go to the shops 400m down the lane, by herself. We've even left her in charge of the house for an hour a fortnight ago.

 

 

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To be completely honest Leo I don't think it makes any difference.

 

We all had a lot of freedom as kids and my kids have always been free to do what they wish. When they were young and started wanting to spread their wings I let them (I did quietly follow them to the shops without their knowing a few times) but they happily found their own paths, as did we.

 

Not about to even think of giving you parenting lessons just don't be surprised 🙂

 

Cheers

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3 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Not about to even think of giving you parenting lessons just don't be surprised

 

Oh I won't be.

 

My brother and I are very different.

 

But nonetheless, despite his more towards-Labor inclinations on climate and gay marriage, he still admits that the left have zero economic nous.

 

Happily with gay marriage done, he's back into multi-issue politics 🙂

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