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scruffy1

how crap is this government ?

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2 hours ago, Rybags said:

Most of the bad fires are in National Parks and State Forests.  Both areas where there's minimalist intervention.

Yep lightning strike initiation and then no roads and bloody nasty terrain so little to no prospect of getting them put out before they expand. Aircraft can only do so much, you eventually need boots on the ground which means specialist remote area crews lifted in and supplied by chopper. Very few of these around AFAIK and only good for mopping up containing small fires.

Given the news reports, dryness, temps and fuel loads that seem to be present in the fire grounds I bet those fires ballooned up extremely fast so even with immediate spotting by the time any sort of control measures are working the fires have just gone totally wild.

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6 hours ago, aliali said:

Yet more forestry/RWNJ propaganda and outright lies.

 

Here's a good starter for you

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-there-really-a-green-conspiracy-to-stop-bushfire-hazard-reduction

 

 

But of course that won't stop you believing all the bullshit the LNP spin machine pumps out, especially if it slags off the Greens or similar.

 

 

Greg Mullins is one of the biggest gooses going around.

 

He is an 'Ex' for good reason and now he still wants to look important.

 

Rates a close second to Flannery when it comes to outrageous statements just to get the ABC and The Guardian all excited.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

Greg Mullins is one of the biggest gooses going around.

Ok so then lets make it super simple for you. Link to when the Greens held NSW State Government and introduced and passed legislation that stopped the RFS doing fuel reduction burns. Come on where is it?

 

Also

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/the-debate-over-hazard-reduction-burns-after-catastrophic-fires/news-story/c06b3e6f9bc7429128d03bdf18a40486

 

 

Jeeyzus the useless pricks can't help themselves can they?

 

 

 

Edited by aliali
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3 hours ago, aliali said:

Ok so then lets make it super simple for you. Link to when the Greens held NSW State Government and introduced and passed legislation that stopped the RFS doing fuel reduction burns. Come on where is it?

https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/goodliving/posts/2017/05/collecting-firewood

It is against the law to pick up dead wood in a National Park !!!!

 

Umm, my question is who does the advising for the way National Parks and State Forests are run / looked after ?  Yeah I know your answer will be the Governing body of the State and Nation has ultimate control and therefore the fault currently lies with the present incumbents.

But lets not be toooo dense here please. The Greens and Conservation groups have helled ( spell error intentional )  sway for decades in Australia .

 

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I've seen a couple of clips of the skycrane copters in action this summer.

They're effective for surgical type operations but these days there's better alternatives for the bigger scale stuff.

 

The mystery to me though is why we keep borrowing the things instead of just buying or building them?

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Posted (edited)

SO the title of an ABC article said, " Coming back from Holidays ? Here's what you need to know about the Australian Bushfires "

 

Well, "great", I thought, " someone is trying to look ahead to the issues faced by tens of thousands of people who are going to have every day issues still needing to be sorted even given the horrors of the fires. Someone's thinking that " life needs to go on"  for those going to back to school and work and whatever else the beginning of the year brings ".

But no I was wrong it's merely an article by the ABC about the pollies and their dealing or lack of over this ... ffs ABC that's not news the people on the ground need right now.

 

/ possibly not the end of my rants, but ...https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-05/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-australian-bushfires-refresher/11837392

Edited by eveln
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11 minutes ago, eveln said:

https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/goodliving/posts/2017/05/collecting-firewood

It is against the law to pick up dead wood in a National Park !!!!

 

Umm, my question is who does the advising for the way National Parks and State Forests are run / looked after ?  Yeah I know your answer will be the Governing body of the State and Nation has ultimate control and therefore the fault currently lies with the present incumbents.

But lets not be toooo dense here please. The Greens and Conservation groups have helled ( spell error intentional )  sway for decades in Australia .

 

 Or just government cutbacks reducing staffing levels to the extent they have the minimal amount of staff to do the job.

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Just now, Jeruselem said:

 Or just government cutbacks reducing staffing levels to the extent they have the minimal amount of staff to do the job.

no Jeruselem, it's not about cutbacks here. It's about conservation laws being upheld even given historical knowledge of the way the bush naturally works. There's no balance between conservation and nature.

We all know that we had to make laws to educate us about dropping litter and throwing lit ciggies out the window, and generally those laws have paid off. For some reason the conservationist also figured that thousands of hikers, campers, etc. visiting the parks would denude the forest floor and kill the growth.

So they made laws again, this time giving nature the kindling required for a bloody good and righteous burn

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The Skycrane has been around, it was up at Taree a few weeks ago, not sure where it is now probably Victoria.

 

There has been a huge reluctance from Federal and State Government to investin water bombers. The 737 is a start but it is not really the right solution.

 

Canadair manufacture what is the only truly dedicated rather than recycled airliner water bomber the CL-415:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-415

 

The question has been being asked ever since Ash Wednesday why there are not some here but there is never a satisfactory answer.

 

The biggest advantage it has is that it is an amphibian that can scoop whilst taxiing on any usable body of water so turn around can be very fast.

 

Water bombers are never the total answer but they can make a hell of a difference but the rag-tag fleet we have really can't keep up either with demand or in terms of turn arounds.

 

Cheers

 

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, eveln said:

no Jeruselem, it's not about cutbacks here. It's about conservation laws being upheld even given historical knowledge of the way the bush naturally works. There's no balance between conservation and nature.

We all know that we had to make laws to educate us about dropping litter and throwing lit ciggies out the window, and generally those laws have paid off. For some reason the conservationist also figured that thousands of hikers, campers, etc. visiting the parks would denude the forest floor and kill the growth.

So they made laws again, this time giving nature the kindling required for a bloody good and righteous burn

 

In general we don't have enough people to do the burn backs anyway, if it was fully funded.

I think the entire fire system is reactive not proactive, not enough done to burn the growth because not enough people out there doing it and then most of infrastructure is put into reactive efforts.

No we can't do things like the aborigines did because they don't like there anymore or they got all shot out during colonization.

Edited by Jeruselem

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1 hour ago, Rybags said:

I've seen a couple of clips of the skycrane copters in action this summer.

They're effective for surgical type operations but these days there's better alternatives for the bigger scale stuff.

 

The mystery to me though is why we keep borrowing the things instead of just buying or building them?

 

I reckon they've had advice that the ongoing costs are prohibitive...............unlike military hardware!

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4 hours ago, aliali said:

Ok so then lets make it super simple for you. Link to when the Greens held NSW State Government and introduced and passed legislation that stopped the RFS doing fuel reduction burns. Come on where is it?

 

I've always been opposed to 'hazard reduction burns' unless they are done in bush that directly backs onto dense housing estates and are no more (roughly) than 500 metres wide.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jeruselem said:
1 hour ago, eveln said:

no Jeruselem, it's not about cutbacks here. It's about conservation laws being upheld even given historical knowledge of the way the bush naturally works. There's no balance between conservation and nature.

We all know that we had to make laws to educate us about dropping litter and throwing lit ciggies out the window, and generally those laws have paid off. For some reason the conservationist also figured that thousands of hikers, campers, etc. visiting the parks would denude the forest floor and kill the growth.

So they made laws again, this time giving nature the kindling required for a bloody good and righteous burn

 

In general we don't have enough people to do the burn backs anyway, if it was fully funded.

I think the entire fire system is reactive not proactive, not enough done to burn the growth because not enough people out there doing it and then most of infrastructure is put into reactive efforts.

Hazard burning is not a sure thing either, fully funded or not. And given the full on intensity of the raging infernos coming out of the National Parks and forests ( not even thinking about the arsonist lit fires )and given peoples' propensity to want to live on and in the doorsteps of forests, hazard burning is a hard ask don't you think ?

And what about my inference to deadwood being illegal to pick up ?

All that untouchable deadwood works same as dry twigs for starting that cosy fire in your hearth ( not you living in Darwin Jeruselem ) . And not clearing that dead wood is just more natural fuel for the fire to build and move.

 

Us collecting dead wood is us doing our bit to give us more of a fighting chance when bushfires occur.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jeruselem said:

No we can't do things like the aborigines did because they don't like there anymore or they got all shot out during colonizatio

I reckon they were nomadic cos they never put their fires out properly 😛  << you deserved that Jeruselem 😉

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19 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

No we can't do things like the aborigines did because they don't like there anymore or they got all shot out during colonization.


Also if the left wants us to be scientific, let’s hold the left to account and not posit that men can get pregnant or that pre-literate/pre-industrial societies with no written record of bushfire management and no practise of it in 230 years and ZERO experience of bushfire management in modern industrial states - have anything to add to the bushfire response.

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20 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

I reckon they've had advice that the ongoing costs are prohibitive...............unlike military hardware!

 

 

Actually no, it has long been proposed that a small fleet of water bombers be purchased, partly underwritten by insurance companies and that in the off-season they can be loaned out at a profit to places such as Indonesia.

 

Given how much the insurance companies are going to be up for yet again that would seem a win-win, in other words far too sensible to ever happen...

 

Funnily enough something similar does happen in both Canada and California, has for a very long time.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

how much the insurance companies are going to be up for

 

Personally, I wouldn't be the least surprised to see a few go under.  Like banks, these guys work on the basis of not having to pay off everyone at the same time, and right now there are an awful lot of claims about to be processed.

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Posted (edited)

And in Canberra, ACT Emergency Management agency is shut down due to the smoke ...

My brother works in Canberra, his department has filtered air con so that department can still function but looks they forgot to install them for Emergency Management

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/canberra-smoke-shuts-government-agency-responsible-for-emergency-management

Edited by Jeruselem

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Bit of a joke really, today was among the best 3 of the last 20 days for visibility.  The air quality wasn't too bad.

But the nights have been generally bad, the smoke settles in and the smell and visibility isn't so good.

 

I guess in theory they might have had filters clogged with crap though in general most government buildings shut off the AC after hours and people that happen to work then or weekends usually just have to put up with whatever temperature gets dished up.

For the agency responsible for emergency actions though, a bit of a joke especially considering there's fires around that could easily threaten the area if the right conditions arose.

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10 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

And in Canberra, ACT Emergency Management agency is shut down due to the smoke ...

My brother works in Canberra, his department has filtered air con so that department can still function but looks they forgot to install them for Emergency Management

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/canberra-smoke-shuts-government-agency-responsible-for-emergency-management

 

I doubt it was forgotten....................just another cost cutting exercise.

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1 hour ago, Rybags said:

For the agency responsible for emergency actions though, a bit of a joke especially considering there's fires around that could easily threaten the area if the right conditions arose.

umm yeah, that'd be a plan 😉

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17 minutes ago, eveln said:

umm yeah, that'd be a plan 😉

 

In the article it says 'some' are working from home.................cleaning out the gutters?

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3 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

In the article it says 'some' are working from home.................cleaning out the gutters?

that's not really funny is it ? It's scary.

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