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scruffy1

how crap is this government ?

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4 hours ago, Rybags said:

The type of business that employs casuals is the least equipped to be able to accomodate such a payout at the moment.

The type of business that steals wages from employees is always the least equipped to be able to accomodate repaying those funds.

 

Ah well, guess we may as well legalise wage theft.

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4 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

You get a loading for being hired as a casual.........25% on top of the award in this case............this is in lieu of holidays and sick pay.

Now they award holidays and sick pay on top of this?

In lieu of holidays, sick/personal leave, and overtime.  That lack of overtime rate is why companies really love permanent casuals.

The real rort tho' are companies that get away with refusing to pay overtime and using time in lieu, but only give you an hour of baserate for every hour of TIL you claim, when you worked it on a saturday night and got extra penalties.

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Casuals are only supposed to do max 30 hours per week.  So that would translate to no more than about 6 hours of "overtime" being possible if assumed as 3 x 10 hour days.

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I've never come across anything stipulating how many hours a casual is meant to do per week.

The award I'm most familiar with has a few things to say, and those being ignored is why hospitality is in so much shit with the courts (they're also fairly new entrants to the award):


http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000009#P334_30931

13.1 A casual employee is an employee engaged as such and must be paid a casual loading of 25% as provided for in this award. The casual loading is paid as compensation for annual leave,personal/carer’s leave,notice of termination,redundancy benefits and the other entitlements of full-time or part-time employment.

 

13.2 A casual employee may be engaged to work:

  • (a) for a maximum of 12 hours per day or per shift;

    (b) for a maximum of 38 hours per week or,where the casual employee works in accordance with a roster,an average of 38 hours per week over the roster cycle (which may not exceed 4 weeks).

 

 

I regularly had coworkers who preferred casual because they got paid every hour they worked, vs salary and the magic of 'oh no you don't get paid, that's called reasonable overtime' nonsense.  It was rare for them to do over 12 hrs per day, but they would regularly get over 38 hrs per week.

Ignorant/malicious bosses would ask salaried full-timers to work back and do all the overtime because it was deemed as not needing to be paid.
Smart bosses would push that stuff off to casuals to avoid messiness and hurt feelings of salaried full-timers.

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I was in a casual job 17 years back and they were adamant about the 30 hour limit but things have changed since then and maybe the hours limit was one of them.

 

But strangely though, I got superannuation which I don't think was compulsory at the time.

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37 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Casuals are only supposed to do max 30 hours per week.  So that would translate to no more than about 6 hours of "overtime" being possible if assumed as 3 x 10 hour days.

 

Fuck I wish - I'm casual and often made to work 12 hours a day (They want me to work six days a week, but fuck em - I do five. I'm trying to build a home. I'm in the middle of laying cement slab 12m x 6m right now - I need time to do formwork and shit)

 

I would think, that putting me on full time would be better for them, but no. I've also heard rumors that after you work so many hours per week as a casual, you should be transferred to permanent or some shit, but I can't find any documents for that either

 

(Sorry - Not shitting on you. Just day dreaming)

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2 minutes ago, Khirareq said:

 

Fuck I wish - I'm casual and often made to work 12 hours a day (They want me to work six days a week, but fuck em - I do five. I'm trying to build a home. I'm in the middle of laying cement slab 12m x 6m right now - I need time to do formwork and shit)

 

I would think, that putting me on full time would be better for them, but no. I've also heard rumors that after you work so many hours per week as a casual, you should be transferred to permanent or some shit, but I can't find any documents for that either

 

(Sorry - Not shitting on you. Just day dreaming)

Find out what award you're on, and it should state it.  If you're on an EBA, hahahaha I'm sorry.  If they're just paying you minimum rate because they're dogs, do some reading and bleed them for what you're owed.

(Don't think you need us to tell you what you already know - they're fucking you over)

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Oh, I know. The company who I work for operates........ Well, I've spent a lot of time on the phone with Fairwork NSW and Safework NSW

 

Here's an example - We are required to wear steel cap boots for work - Issued boots caused me injury. Yada yada yada - long story short, the boots we are issued with are not ANZ certified in any way (Says on the fucking box "non-safety"). Work were jerks to me about the boots, I called safework NSW, and work got in shit - They had been fucking over staff for 5 years and noone noticed. I work remote areas, no mobile phone reception, but they won't give me an PLB - Used my InReach instead. Yada yada yada... That's my current fight

 

But hey - I got a job in todays current climate. Gotta be happy about that. I'll get them in line eventually

 

huh.png

Edited by Khirareq
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21 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

You get a loading for being hired as a casual.........25% on top of the award in this case............this is in lieu of holidays and sick pay.

Now they award holidays and sick pay on top of this?

Dickhead judges should have ruled that after a year of casual (if you are working 38/40 hour week or more) you become a full time employee and adjust payments  to suit.

 

Or a permanent part time? 

 

Although that may make people more nervous about hiring casuals and then make things worse for workers over all. 

Edited by fliptopia

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https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/casual-workers-win-big-on-annual-leave-sick-leave-in-landmark-ruling-20200520-p54uuj.html

 

'Some' casual employees.

One of the things that a lot of full time hospitality staff on a salary have been stung by, and probably happens to salaried staff in other industries too, is the idea of 'buying out' penalty rates by setting the weekly salary at 25% higher than the base rate.  This is meant to cover occasionally needing to work weekends or public holidays, while keeping the same format of a single set figure you get paid every week.  This effectively puts a full time salaried worker at the casual rate.

 

The problem is, of course, that this is meant to be compared to the actual hours worked and penalties that would apply, and if the employee was getting underpaid, they then get paid-back what they're owed.  In this scenario, salary essentially means the same pay rate each week, and should never work out worse for the employee but can often work out worse for the employer.  I guess the employer is meant to see it as a simplified way of calculating cashflow for wages averaged over a whole year - but they still need whoever does the books to do all the work behind the scenes anyway.

So in that sense I'm all for casual workers getting paid back what they're owed, when their employer fucks them over.

Guess we'll all be waiting to see how specifically this latest court ruling changes things, and who it actually does and doesn't apply to.

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It also circumvents holiday leave loading..................which, by the way, was a supplement to cover having to work overtime every week.

It's a hangover from the full employment days of the 60's and 70's.

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Didn't leave loading disappear years ago?

I was told it existed for the benefit of shift workers who'd otherwise have lost 15% penalty for out of hours shifts if on holidays, then everyone else screamed and got it.

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6 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Didn't leave loading disappear years ago?

I was told it existed for the benefit of shift workers who'd otherwise have lost 15% penalty for out of hours shifts if on holidays, then everyone else screamed and got it.

 

That's right............and in the old metal workers award, you had to work a 'reasonable' amount of overtime............regardless of whether you were working shifts.

(reasonable was usually defined as a minimum of 8 hours a week)

 

edit - it's 17.5%

https://www.hrassured.com.au/blog/annual-leave-loading/

Edited by LogicprObe
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I've sometimes seen myself get leave loading, and sometimes not.  At a certain point doing the math behind a salary to work out if leave loading is built in or they're rorting you, gets complicated as an employee without any of the fancy tools.

Thank fuck more people are starting to wake up that 'you can't refuse to do reasonable overtime' means you also have to get paid for that overtime.

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Well............while we're talking about this shit, the Government should outlaw unpaid internships.

It's slave labour, nothing more.

Either outlaw it or make it that you get paid the minimum wage for a set period...........say, six months.

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Are they actually legal?

At this point you can't get into an internship unless you're at school, or maybe even studying a related course.

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23 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Well............while we're talking about this shit, the Government should outlaw unpaid internships.

It's slave labour, nothing more.

Either outlaw it or make it that you get paid the minimum wage for a set period...........say, six months.

 

Government won't ban those, corporations need people to work free for them and then toss then out in the streets later.

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22 minutes ago, Nich... said:

Are they actually legal?

At this point you can't get into an internship unless you're at school, or maybe even studying a related course.

 

Well.............the lawyers are doing it!

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Yeah, I think it's an American thing that's trickled through elsewhere.

I've even seen it on car shows from there, rather than an apprentice on 1/4 wage they have an intern who gets nothing.

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24 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Well.............the lawyers are doing it!

In that case I'm guessing they can be basically unpaid because it's designed as part of a course.

Can still be a bit shit, for the people involved, tho'.

Yeah, generally American companies love a good unpaid intern because a) it means they don't have to pay for labour, and b) they get to make sure certain kinds of people (poor) don't apply, because you need to have a family from a certain socioeconomic group who can afford to prop you up while you're off working unpaid.

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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-25/canberra-hospitals-wards-filled-with-toxic-smoke-this-summer/12279384?nw=0

 

Canberra hospitals were all contaminated by PM2.5 crappola from smoke from the bushfires, and now of course they using the same equipment and PPE to deal with the virus. Yep, no air filtering in the hospitals was to blame.

Edited by Jeruselem

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8 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-25/canberra-hospitals-wards-filled-with-toxic-smoke-this-summer/12279384?nw=0

 

Canberra hospitals were all contaminated by PM2.5 crappola from smoke from the bushfires, and now of course they using the same equipment and PPE to deal with the virus. Yep, no air filtering in the hospitals was to blame.

 

I heard the Qantas cheif boasting how they were going to be using hospital grade filters in their aircraft...................I hope it isn't Canberra Hospital grade!

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Not sure what Joyce was on about (which would not be unusual)  both Boeing and Airbus have been fitting HEPA filtration for years which combined with how often the air in an aircraft is exchanged does put the lie to aircraft being petri dishes although if someone next to you is coughing and spluttering the filters are not going to help much.

 

What matters is how well the filtration systems are MAINTAINED, which given normal times turn-arounds is abysmal.

 

What saves the situation, mostly, is that the recirculating air gets a 30 odd thousand foot chill and that kills most bugs before the air is warmed back to cabin temp in the bleed air heat exchangers. Different aircraft do it different ways but the principle holds.

 

Cheers

 

 

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Heat kills, cool preserves.

That's how refrigerators and freezers work.

 

11 hours ago, chrisg said:

 

 

What saves the situation, mostly, is that the recirculating air gets a 30 odd thousand foot chill and that kills most bugs before the air is warmed back to cabin temp in the bleed air heat exchangers. Different aircraft do it different ways but the principle holds.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

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