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scruffy1

how crap is this government ?

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I'm a immigrant, I'm glad Australia allows immigrants to enter, I also glad Australia chooses to help refugees, many of those guys can really do with a helping hand.

 

What I don't get is why people complain about quality of living enviroments, I've not been to where these guys are staying but I have my own story. When I was a full time student and part time worker in the UK I paid to stay in a tiny room, which was freezing during the winter and the cupboard was falling apart. I shared a bathroom, toilet and kitchen with many other people from different parts of the world. The place was mouldly, there was paint peeling off the walls, filthy carpets worn away, mice running about and there was 3 pubs on my street that would have drunks waking me up. I don't regret living there, I didn't complain and I didn't get help from anyone. I voluntarily paid to live in those crappy conditions but I had a plan, to study and work to move up and out. I imagine prison was more comfortable in the UK than it was in my place, so I can't feel bad for people when they complain about their housing conditions.

Hey fabman, I think given the chance, most of these refugees would pay/work for, and be happy in such a place as well. My personal feeling is that criticism of the detention centre conditions, at least for the adults being detained, comes from a perception that it's not right to lock up people legitimately fleeing persecution. They've had their freedoms deprived from them in their home country, so it doesn't seem moral that we as a civilised country continue this behaviour. If we have to lock them up for security reasons, the least we could do is treat them slightly better than prisoners, but it's an insignificant problem compared to things like processing times and child detention.

 

----

 

Reading over them again, my posts are probably a bit over the top. They weren't meant to be mean spirited, and the intention was definitely not to craft ad hominems (I was aiming for humours flaming). The truth is that the issue is pretty personal to me, and I've lost my tolerance for people parroting political arguments, without really understanding of the despair of the situation. I have a good friend who is a Sri Lanken who arrived by boat, having been born in a PNG refugee camp. I used to work with a Vietnamese who arrived by boat in the 80s, worked his way through Aussie high school and uni, and became an engineering manager (having not had any schooling, and no English before he arrived!). A really decent proportion of the ~94% of these refugees are probably good people fleeing really shitty situations. They want what we want - freedom, protection, and stability to thrive from. As Australians, we not only have the opportunity to give this to them, our economy can stand to benefit from the labour they're able to provide - as it has in the past with other immigrants.

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" (I was aiming for humours flaming) "

 

... and you did it in bucket loads ! :) ... I enjoyed it muchly

Edited by eveln

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I'm a legal immigrant, I'm glad Australia allows immigrants to enter, I also glad Australia chooses to help refugees, many of those guys can really do with a helping hand.

 

What I don't get is why people complain about quality of living enviroments, I've not been to where these guys are staying but I have my own story. When I was a full time student and part time worker in the UK I paid to stay in a tiny room, which was freezing during the winter and the cupboard was falling apart. I shared a bathroom, toilet and kitchen with many other people from different parts of the world. The place was mouldly, there was paint peeling off the walls, filthy carpets worn away, mice running about and there was 3 pubs on my street that would have drunks waking me up. I don't regret living there, I didn't complain and I didn't get help from anyone. I voluntarily paid to live in those crappy conditions but I had a plan, to study and work to move up and out. I imagine prison was more comfortable in the UK than it was in my place, so I can't feel bad for people when they complain about their housing conditions.

Some of the reports coming out of those places are more than just living in an uncomfortable place. If these reports are true (and the evidence is mounting up more and more to suggest that it is), then you're looking at things like refugees getting restricted access to water and food (apparently in the summer they had something like one to two cups a day), beatings, assaults (some claim sexual-based), restricted access to sanitary products for women, segregation from families, verbal abuse and threats. This is coming from people who apparently used to work there.

 

There've been a fair few leaked tweets/FB posts from the trained apes that used to guard such places that basically laugh and mock refugees who self-harm, and the fact that Morrison's so hush-hush about the whole scenario does not do anybody any favours, especially with Reza Barati's murder being swept under the rug. I honestly believe something horrible is going on there and history is going to judge us horrifically for it. It's probably why I come across so white-hot mad about the subject, I am horrified that people think it's OK to do such things.

 

I don't get mad or upset by it, if what the reports are saying are true, it is disgusting.

 

However I see the world as having over 7 billion people, if terrible conditions are happening close to me or are happing in a different continent I don't feel more or less angry about either of them. Right now and at every moment someone is being raped or murdered, in great numbers in Syria, but we as a human race do very little to stop it. Despite your passion, and I do believe you care, we all do very little to help those people. So many people don't even know their neighbours names here or in the UK, let alone are willing to help them when they need it.

 

This is not an insult to you, but what do you directly do to help these people aquilus? I imagine not much, you probably expect the government that is in charge of the country you live in to take responsibility for those people in dire needs, but you, me and everyone could do something to help these people. We chose not to. We chose to talk about it, or complain or even ignore it. If we do nothing, we are the problem, I acknowledge I am part of the problem with neither pride or shame.

 

I don't think if I spent my whole life trying I would make an effect on this global problem. I'd love someone to inspire me, to speak to my heart, no one has. I see name calling on both sides, plenty of finger pointing, but very little genuine action.

 

How can you get mad, it is futile.

 

Not an insult at all - it's a good question. The truth is I don't know what I can do to help these people. I can't close the concentration camps and I can't make people see the light. All I can do is make it clear that what's being done is not being done in my name. Maybe one day somebody with the power will listen - or someone who listens will rise to power.

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[Edit]Well, stuffed up the post order, but regardless:

 

Fabman, seeing your latest point, I'd add that I actually do leave my computer screen to act on these issues. I've spent time in Costa Rica and Nicaragua building schools and water supplies. I spent a good proportion of last year and the start of this year in Kenya, working with wildlife rangers. I've visited the refugee camp Kakuma in Turkana in 2010, which was about 100,000 Somali refugees slowing dying from famine and disease that the poor sanitation of the camp no doubt contributed to. I don't blame people fleeing conditions like that, risking their lives even, to try for something better.

Edited by tastywheat

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or someone who listens will rise to power.

Someone I know lived in Wentworth where Malcolm Turnbull is MP, on regarding same sex marriage his office wrote a letter to the homes of those in Wentworth asking for other people's views, stating he is not there to represent his views, but the views of the people. When I was told that, I thought such a simple act shows a lot of promise as a decent politician.

 

- Tastywheat. I met another person like you before. You both impress me greatly, I think the worse thing is that most people think they cannot do anything, you obviously don't feel that way.

Edited by fabman_uk

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I still have high hopes that Turnbull will replace Abbot at some point.

 

He's been very professionally towing the party line on a number of contentious issues recently (NBN, now the data retention scheme), which has drawn reasonable criticism, but I think he's one of the few good intentioned and capable leaders in the current mix of likely contenders.

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I think it's rather screwed that various politicians feel they must " tow the party line ".

From my POV if the man is too afraid to stand on his own mettle then what's the point of him/ her. They all suck and lie far too adroitly .

I don't like Malcolm any more than Shorten, both dudes are too slick.

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Oh look at that. Another non-sequitur from our permanent bleeding heart, tastywheat, who not only doesn't get the argument, he constructs one and then shifts the goal posts.

 

It's so pathetic, it's beyond words to describe how downright dishonest he is.

 

Let's start with simple things.

 

Asylum seeking != refugee. An asylum seeker is one who wants to become a refugee. A refugee is an asylum seeker granted asylum.

 

From the convention:

The Convention further stipulates that, subject to specific exceptions, refugees
should not be penalized for their illegal entry or stay.

That states that anyone granted asylum (those 90%) aren't penalised (or should not be) even though they entered illegally.

 

There is nothing in the Convention, the Protocols or any Australian law stating we must allow people seeking asylum to enter our borders. Absolutely nothing.

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How do people find out the stats of say socially/morally good Australians? I mean those that are not criminals and those who can work are working? I wonder how that compares against immigrants and asylum seekers that are granted residency?

 

I'd also like to know about those who complain about asylum seekers are actually beneficial to Australian society. I mean do they purchase Australian grown or manufactured goods when there is a choice? Are the goods they buy from Australian owned stores or the cheaper online deals? Do they never try to hide earnings from the tax man? Do they take drugs that are imported from abroad helping fund organised crime? Are they lining up to be a burden on the health care system by smoking, drinking or even fighting? When they can get away with it, are they speeding in their car? Do they help the old lady across the road take her trash out?

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Oh please, you care about as much about the legitimate refugees as the ones that drown.

I do. It's why I support a higher refugee resettlement quota and also people not drowning.

 

I'm evil like that.

 

I'm a legal immigrant, I'm glad Australia allows immigrants to enter, I also glad Australia chooses to help refugees, many of those guys can really do with a helping hand.

 

What I don't get is why people complain about quality of living enviroments, I've not been to where these guys are staying but I have my own story. When I was a full time student and part time worker in the UK I paid to stay in a tiny room, which was freezing during the winter and the cupboard was falling apart. I shared a bathroom, toilet and kitchen with many other people from different parts of the world. The place was mouldly, there was paint peeling off the walls, filthy carpets worn away, mice running about and there was 3 pubs on my street that would have drunks waking me up. I don't regret living there, I didn't complain and I didn't get help from anyone. I voluntarily paid to live in those crappy conditions but I had a plan, to study and work to move up and out. I imagine prison was more comfortable in the UK than it was in my place, so I can't feel bad for people when they complain about their housing conditions.

Some of the reports coming out of those places are more than just living in an uncomfortable place. If these reports are true (and the evidence is mounting up more and more to suggest that it is), then you're looking at things like refugees getting restricted access to water and food (apparently in the summer they had something like one to two cups a day), beatings, assaults (some claim sexual-based), restricted access to sanitary products for women, segregation from families, verbal abuse and threats. This is coming from people who apparently used to work there.

 

There've been a fair few leaked tweets/FB posts from the trained apes that used to guard such places that basically laugh and mock refugees who self-harm, and the fact that Morrison's so hush-hush about the whole scenario does not do anybody any favours, especially with Reza Barati's murder being swept under the rug. I honestly believe something horrible is going on there and history is going to judge us horrifically for it. It's probably why I come across so white-hot mad about the subject, I am horrified that people think it's OK to do such things.

 

Tell me Manta... given that the population of those centres is falling and not rising as per under Labor and given that under the Pacific Solution we saw almost no-one in detention, on or off-shore, why is it again, that you object to:

a. refusing to let people breach our borders, leading to

b. having fewer people in detention, which means

c. people like Reza Barati not dying for god knows what reason, under god knows what circumstance, which means

d. people like those guards you complain about, don't get guard jobs of detention centres, because

e. the detention centres close when there aren't any border-breachers, and expand when there are

 

How do people find out the stats of say socially/morally good Australians? I mean those that are not criminals and those who can work are working? I wonder how that compares against immigrants and asylum seekers that are granted residency?

 

I'd also like to know about those who complain about asylum seekers are actually beneficial to Australian society. I mean do they purchase Australian grown or manufactured goods when there is a choice? Are the goods they buy from Australian owned stores or the cheaper online deals? Do they never try to hide earnings from the tax man? Do they take drugs that are imported from abroad helping fund organised crime? Are they lining up to be a burden on the health care system by smoking, drinking or even fighting? When they can get away with it, are they speeding in their car? Do they help the old lady across the road take her trash out?

Nobody buys Australian manufactured goods. Most of us just buy shit from the USA and China. Cheaper.

 

If a refugee buys Australian-made over cheaper Chinese imports I'd be looking at him/her weird.

 

:)

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Oh please, you care about as much about the legitimate refugees as the ones that drown.

I do. It's why I support a higher refugee resettlement quota and also people not drowning.

 

I'm evil like that.

 

I'm a legal immigrant, I'm glad Australia allows immigrants to enter, I also glad Australia chooses to help refugees, many of those guys can really do with a helping hand.

 

What I don't get is why people complain about quality of living enviroments, I've not been to where these guys are staying but I have my own story. When I was a full time student and part time worker in the UK I paid to stay in a tiny room, which was freezing during the winter and the cupboard was falling apart. I shared a bathroom, toilet and kitchen with many other people from different parts of the world. The place was mouldly, there was paint peeling off the walls, filthy carpets worn away, mice running about and there was 3 pubs on my street that would have drunks waking me up. I don't regret living there, I didn't complain and I didn't get help from anyone. I voluntarily paid to live in those crappy conditions but I had a plan, to study and work to move up and out. I imagine prison was more comfortable in the UK than it was in my place, so I can't feel bad for people when they complain about their housing conditions.

Some of the reports coming out of those places are more than just living in an uncomfortable place. If these reports are true (and the evidence is mounting up more and more to suggest that it is), then you're looking at things like refugees getting restricted access to water and food (apparently in the summer they had something like one to two cups a day), beatings, assaults (some claim sexual-based), restricted access to sanitary products for women, segregation from families, verbal abuse and threats. This is coming from people who apparently used to work there.

 

There've been a fair few leaked tweets/FB posts from the trained apes that used to guard such places that basically laugh and mock refugees who self-harm, and the fact that Morrison's so hush-hush about the whole scenario does not do anybody any favours, especially with Reza Barati's murder being swept under the rug. I honestly believe something horrible is going on there and history is going to judge us horrifically for it. It's probably why I come across so white-hot mad about the subject, I am horrified that people think it's OK to do such things.

 

Tell me Manta... given that the population of those centres is falling and not rising as per under Labor and given that under the Pacific Solution we saw almost no-one in detention, on or off-shore, why is it again, that you object to:

a. refusing to let people breach our borders, leading to

b. having fewer people in detention, which means

c. people like Reza Barati not dying for god knows what reason, under god knows what circumstance, which means

d. people like those guards you complain about, don't get guard jobs of detention centres, because

e. the detention centres close when there aren't any border-breachers, and expand when there are

 

Because sending them back to places where they'll potentially be murdered or tortured isn't exactly a better option.

 

You of all people should know what a dick move that is. But then again it's pretty much par for the course of your 'fuck you, got mine' attitude towards people who faced the same adversities you once did once you got your privileges here.

Edited by aquilus

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There is nothing in the Convention, the Protocols or any Australian law stating we must allow people seeking asylum to enter our borders. Absolutely nothing.

Actually, there is.

 

Article 31, 32, and 33 of the convention states that we are bound by international law to allow them to enter for the purpose of claiming asylum (without restrictions on modes of travel), and that we can't expel them or send them back to their home country without processing their claim, or sheltering them while they seek legal admission to another country. Read it for yourself [Source] (PDF warning).

 

If you want to continue this, maybe take it to another thread. You have extraordinary thread-shitting skills, and I'd feel bad for scruffy if you used them in his thread.

Edited by tastywheat

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Nobody buys Australian manufactured goods. Most of us just buy shit from the USA and China. Cheaper.

 

If a refugee buys Australian-made over cheaper Chinese imports I'd be looking at him/her weird.

 

:)

I know, everyone wants the cheaper/selfish way, me too. I mean why pay twice or three times as much for the same thing just because it is made in Australia? But if people aren't willing to support their own community or even their own country, I don't think people should get upset that a foreign person will enter their lands trying to get a job there or even take advantage of the system. I'm not targeting anything at anyone in particular, because I don't know anyone here and I really haven't looked into this subject enough to claim a moral high ground on anything.

 

My view is skewed a bit because in the UK the best man at my wedding worked off the books, so he never paid taxes, claimed welfare, took and sold drugs, loved getting into fist fights, never voted but claimed foreigners and gays were the problems in the UK. I'd debate with him for hours trying to show the hypocrisy in his words, he wouldn't have it. So now when I see people complain about non-locals, I see him, even when they maybe nothing like him.

 

My first Australia day in Australia, I met lots of news Aussies, many telling me how proud they were to be Australian, showing me their Aussie flag tattoo's. It took the 8th person I asked to answer with confidence what was the historical significance with Australia Day. I sometimes see nationalistic pride as foolish. However saying that, I think wherever you are from or wherever you live, people should help support their local community if they can.

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Because sending them back to places where they'll potentially be murdered or tortured isn't exactly a better option.

The idea is not to send them back.

 

The idea is for them not to even get on the boats to come. If Rudd hadn't capsized the pacific solution, there wouldn't be detention centres.

 

You of all people should know what a dick move that is. But then again it's pretty much par for the course of your 'fuck you, got mine' attitude towards people who faced the same adversities you once did once you got your privileges here.

I got my privileges here same way any immigrant did. I continue supporting high immigration rates and high refugee resettlement rates.

 

I really don't see why you have this immense problem with me wanting high immigration, our own border policy and a higher refugee resettlement quota? Is something in there not progressive enough for you?

 

There is nothing in the Convention, the Protocols or any Australian law stating we must allow people seeking asylum to enter our borders. Absolutely nothing.

Actually, there is.

 

Article 31, 32, and 33 of the convention states that we are bound by international law to allow them to enter for the purpose of claiming asylum (without restrictions on modes of travel), and that we can't expel them or send them back to their home country without processing their claim, or sheltering them while they seek legal admission to another country. Read it for yourself [Source] (PDF warning).

 

If you want to continue this, maybe take it to another thread. You have extraordinary thread-shitting skills, and I'd feel bad for scruffy if you used them in his thread.

 

Article 31 is about refugees. Not asylum seekers.

Article 32 is about refugees. Not asylum seekers.

Aritcle 33 is about refugees. Not asylum seekers.

 

If you want to continue this, maybe take it to another thread. You have extraordinary thread-shitting skills, and I'd feel bad for scruffy if you used them in his thread.

 

(thanks... didn't have to type it)

 

Here you are: http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/docs/news...Information.pdf

 

An asylum seeker is a person who is seeking 
protection as a refugee and is still waiting to 
have his/her claim assessed. 
The Refugee Convention definition is used by the 
Australian Government to determine whether 
our country has protection obligations towards 
asylum seekers. If an asylum seeker who has 
reached Australia is found to be a refugee, Australia is obliged 
under international law to offer protection and to ensure that 
the \x00person is not sent back unwillingly to a country in which they risk 
being persecuted.

If they don't reach Australian territory they cannot claim Asylum and we don't owe them shit, pardon the colloquialism.

 

 

Nobody buys Australian manufactured goods. Most of us just buy shit from the USA and China. Cheaper.

 

If a refugee buys Australian-made over cheaper Chinese imports I'd be looking at him/her weird.

 

:)

I know, everyone wants the cheaper/selfish way, me too. I mean why pay twice or three times as much for the same thing just because it is made in Australia? But if people aren't willing to support their own community or even their own country, I don't think people should get upset that a foreign person will enter their lands trying to get a job there or even take advantage of the system. I'm not targeting anything at anyone in particular, because I don't know anyone here and I really haven't looked into this subject enough to claim a moral high ground on anything.

 

My view is skewed a bit because in the UK the best man at my wedding worked off the books, so he never paid taxes, claimed welfare, took and sold drugs, loved getting into fist fights, never voted but claimed foreigners and gays were the problems in the UK. I'd debate with him for hours trying to show the hypocrisy in his words, he wouldn't have it. So now when I see people complain about non-locals, I see him, even when they maybe nothing like him.

 

My first Australia day in Australia, I met lots of news Aussies, many telling me how proud they were to be Australian, showing me their Aussie flag tattoo's. It took the 8th person I asked to answer with confidence what was the historical significance with Australia Day. I sometimes see nationalistic pride as foolish. However saying that, I think wherever you are from or wherever you live, people should help support their local community if they can.

 

Man... if you're not buying cheap shit overseas, getting around stupid content restrictions and trying to dodge taxes any way legally or dubiously ethically possible, I'd say you were un-Australian (whatever the fuck that means).

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Well now, getting back to how crap this government is ...

 

Not only crap but yes mature to the point of decaying into senility ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-08/ama-...-cancer/5656832

 

" The country's peak medical body has strongly criticised Cabinet Minister Eric Abetz for suggesting there could be a link between abortions and breast cancer.

The leader of the Government in the Senate made the comments on Channel Ten program The Project on Thursday night when discussing his involvement with the World Congress of Families event being held in Melbourne this month.

 

While appearing on the program, Senator Abetz was asked by panellist Mia Freedman whether he agrees with one of the speakers at the event, who will be promoting the theory that abortion can lead to breast cancer.

 

Freedman: "What about the fact that one of the speakers at this conference promotes the factually incorrect statement that abortion leads to breast cancer. Do you believe that?"

 

Abetz: "I think the studies, and I think they date back from the 1950s, assert that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer."

 

Freedman: "It is conclusively and scientifically incorrect in the same way that linking immunisations and autism are incorrect. So when this scientific non-information is being put out there, how can you be comfortable being part of something that promotes this non-science?"

 

Abetz: "Well I don't know what your scientific expertise is to be able to run that commentary, I must confess I don't have that...

 

Freedman: "It's not me. It's the Australian Medical Association."

 

Abetz: "Well there are other organisations that have differing views as some of these speakers are clinical professors..."

 

The president of the Australian Medical Association (AMA), Associate Professor Brian Owler, says Senator Abetz's comments are irresponsible and are based on a personal ideology.

"I think he should stay out of these debates if you're quoting evidence from the 1950s, I think that's in line with the attitudes he's putting forward," he said.

"It's not the sort of thing that he should be putting out and certainly not the role a senior Government member should be taking on what is an important health issue.

"I think it's very dangerous when senior members of Government get involved in these types of conferences and give credence to topics that have no scientific merit and which really can be dangerous in terms of the health of women."

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i have little sympathy for muslim extremists, but in truth they are as offensive as devout catholics (looking at you, george pell) in terms of potential damage to the populace

 

Wait what?

 

When was the last time you saw hundreds of Catholics marching the streets calling for the death of all non Catholics just because someone had a go at the Pope?

 

I agree with a lot of what you say but that was just silly and there's nothing that George Pell can advocate that equates with the rampant promotion of hatred and violence towards people who have a different viewpoint from yours.

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I believe that there are 9 million refugees in the world

 

Unless you believe we can take them all, then you also believe in restricted access to Australia

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i have little sympathy for muslim extremists, but in truth they are as offensive as devout catholics (looking at you, george pell) in terms of potential damage to the populace

 

Wait what?

 

When was the last time you saw hundreds of Catholics marching the streets calling for the death of all non Catholics just because someone had a go at the Pope?

 

To be fair, you can still be taking your life in your hands if you're a Protestant (or vice-versa) in certain areas in Northern Ireland.

 

Not in the same scale as al-Nutjobs, but still.

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I agree with a lot of what you say but that was just silly and there's nothing that George Pell can advocate that equates with the rampant promotion of hatred and violence towards people who have a different viewpoint from yours.

yep, because being minimally active on paedophilia within the church is really just a matter of "suffer little children to come onto unto me"

 

you're right though, he belongs in a lesser hell than jihadists

 

edit : i'd had a few beers and was just in a critical mood without my usual discretionary levels of diplomacy

 

meantime :

here's more critique on the government doing what it does

http://tinyurl.com/k7ko5ux

Edited by scruffy1

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i have little sympathy for muslim extremists, but in truth they are as offensive as devout catholics (looking at you, george pell) in terms of potential damage to the populace

 

Wait what?

 

When was the last time you saw hundreds of Catholics marching the streets calling for the death of all non Catholics just because someone had a go at the Pope?

 

I agree with a lot of what you say but that was just silly and there's nothing that George Pell can advocate that equates with the rampant promotion of hatred and violence towards people who have a different viewpoint from yours.

 

I remember walking home from work and seeing a riot in sydney where Muslims where fighting police and smashing public property over outrage from a youtube video someone made in America.

 

2 weeks ago i went to a pro-Palestine protest where everyone was chanting Jews go to hell inbetween praying to Allah.

 

I take it you dont live near sydney scruffy1? we dont have problems like that with the catholics. They just have sex with kids, but hey, you dont have to look far to see Islamic underage arranged marriages in Australia resulting in a lot of jail time for people.

 

The catholic church doesn’t bite back with death threats when you critics their religion these days which is nice.

 

this was in hyde park sydney

 

Posted Image

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I believe that there are 9 million refugees in the world

 

Unless you believe we can take them all, then you also believe in restricted access to Australia

Until all of them come knocking that's a very moot point.

 

The numbers we deal with are microscopic by the world standard.

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I agree with a lot of what you say but that was just silly and there's nothing that George Pell can advocate that equates with the rampant promotion of hatred and violence towards people who have a different viewpoint from yours.

yep, because being minimally active on paedophilia within the church is really just a matter of "suffer little children to come onto unto me"

 

you're right though, he belongs in a lesser hell than jihadists

 

Do you know that if you make it to a high ranking general in the Afghan army you're entitled to a boy sex slave? It was a big uproar last time i was there and the UN had to ban these guys from bringing their comfort boys to meetings because it made all us westerners uncomfortable.

 

What lesser hell does a Paedophile get compared to another Paedophile ?

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When was the last time you saw hundreds of Catholics marching the streets calling for the death of all non Catholics just because someone had a go at the Pope?

I'm sure if I went hunting I could find a catholic or protestant march in Ireland with some Irish nutjob screaming for death of whomever they don't like.

 

And whilst you might not like it Westboro Baptist is a recognised church and they seem to regularly want people dead.

 

 

More shittastic comments from our erstwhile leaders.

Abetz is being a total fuckwit too.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/pol...807-101p60.html

 

"Senior government minister Eric Abetz has drawn a link between abortion and breast cancer in a television interview.

 

Senator Abetz, the leader of the government in the upper house and the Employment Minister, made the comments on Channel 10 program The Project when asked if he believed the "factually incorrect" statement that abortion leads to breast cancer.

 

"I think the studies, and I think they date back from the 1950s, assert that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer," he said on Thursday night."

 

Fuckwit.

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