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I just found this. It's a very long read and to be honest I didn't read it all.

But it hits on some good points and more to the point most of the comments are well thought out and are actually discussions.

 

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry

 

All round it's a pretty good post, I particularly liked the opening section with the modified quotes.

 

This comment, I think, sums up why I've stayed quiet in this^.

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-22

 

^Also, the fact that I know I'm nowhere near as good at communicating my ideas as most other people in this discussion/debate. I'm a programmer, not a writer.

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Finally, a resolution to this issue: It's all codecreeper's fault.

 

Ok blame me i blew your underpants off and turned them into a Bra.

 

 

I just found this. It's a very long read and to be honest I didn't read it all.

But it hits on some good points and more to the point most of the comments are well thought out and are actually discussions.

 

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry

 

All round it's a pretty good post, I particularly liked the opening section with the modified quotes.

 

This comment, I think, sums up why I've stayed quiet in this^.

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-22

 

^Also, the fact that I know I'm nowhere near as good at communicating my ideas as most other people in this discussion/debate. I'm a programmer, not a writer.

 

 

Its looking more like a Court Room with all these statements

 

That post linked sounded very offensive and the way it was portrayed their can be no defense.

 

Seems to be too much one sided on all grounds and i think this is the issue.

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What academic texts would you consider enlightening, in explaining this viewpoint?

 

Judith Butler has been the most influential on my perspective. She's a prolific author of articles, but 'Women and Social Transformations' collects a lot of these ideas into a single place. As mentioned, Sandra Harding is where the perspective on science has come from.

 

 

 

Is usage of the word feminism better served among the public, in reference to academic theory, or in reference to the more general usage?

 

This is something that is being debated amongst Feminist groups at the moment. There is concern that the core messages are being lost or degraded in a disconnect between 'old knowledge' (books and people), and young internet users. This is a simplification, but essentially what it means to be Feminist is being taken away from people who have spent years studying it, and reinterpreted or ignored by people who learn about it in a casual and informal way. The manner in which this new Feminism presents itself is sometimes to the detriment of true progress.

 

Every reasonable person can agree that you should be paid the same amount of money for doing the same job, regardless of your gender, race, or sexuality. The problem with saying that this belief is enough to call yourself a Feminist, is that it ignores the work that needs to be done to make this so. Pay is not the problem, pay is only the symptom. The underlying problem is that our culture is set up to favour masculine traits [1]. Someone who is more aggressive in negotiating a pay rise, is benefited over someone who is passive. Saying that Feminism is equal pay, but not necessarily equal cultural values, is a way to normalise the idea that these cultural values shouldn't be equal. People who push for more than just fair pay can then be cast as 'others', so that society can carry on as 'normal'.

 

I used the science example specifically because I knew it was something that you were likely to disagree with. Just to be clear, I've presented other peoples ideas here, and they're not necessarily something I completely agree with. Not everything is gendered, particularly when it comes to science, though I do believe that the protocols of science favour masculine traits.

 

Ultimately, I think if someone wants to call themselves a Feminist, they have a responsibility to understand the history of the movement. This is so they are building ideas from established values, in the same way scientists build their knowledge from established values.

 

 

1. Note that when I use masculine and feminine, I'm not talking about chromosomal arrangement or gender identity. These traits exist independent of gender, and we label them feminine or masculine based on the historical meanings.

Edited by tastywheat
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This comment, I think, sums up why I've stayed quiet in this^.

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-22

 

^Also, the fact that I know I'm nowhere near as good at communicating my ideas as most other people in this discussion/debate. I'm a programmer, not a writer.

Especially in an emotive topic, it's easy to throw around ad hoc ad homs. If you're sure you can be sensitive and respectful, then don't feel like you can't voice your opinion.
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The girls got up in arms cause the boys were being dicks. Then the femmes became outrageously dicky,

and as a result, the boys rightly feel like their games are being taken off them, cause the femmes get to rule, for now,

because nobody really wants a sexual abuser tag put on them.

It's stupid, and childish, and the media loves it, and I bet the game makers are loving it a little bit too, as it might mean some

new game stories could come out of it, maybe. Instead of all the sequels, some actual new stories.

 

People need to step back from the key boards, go outside and take some air while it's still relatively fresh.

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The girls got up in arms cause the boys were being dicks. Then the femmes became outrageously dicky,

and as a result, the boys rightly feel like their games are being taken off them, cause the femmes get to rule, for now,

because nobody really wants a sexual abuser tag put on them.

It's stupid, and childish, and the media loves it, and I bet the game makers are loving it a little bit too, as it might mean some

new game stories could come out of it, maybe. Instead of all the sequels, some actual new stories.

 

People need to step back from the key boards, go outside and take some air while it's still relatively

 

Id have to disagree with that evenln. Ive never disagreed with you before but I must in this case. Its just like the poster put in his post on the nastythings website. Its generalisations like that which carry on the stereotype. We arent all like that. In fact, a lot of us are mired in the crap that the minority actually stir up. Does that mean I am, or for that matter, any of the guys in the forum highly supportive of yourself, if not in the lives of the females in their lives.

 

But, coming back to the topic at hand, the trolling has been around for a very long time. I remember back in the early 2000s when I started frequenting LANs with my friends and discovered Counter Strike. I nearly gave it up altogether because of the dickiness of the people playing, mostly male but some females as well. However, I realised that they arent the reason I gamed but rather it was for me myself, and being with my friends. Its for me and me alone. Just like my life. No matter what you say or how you feel about it, whatever I do is for the best of my family and myself alone. Sure your advice and your opinions are welcome but dont expect it to be taken as Gospel, as my father used to say.

 

Eveln, I cant even begin to know how you feel on this matter because I am not a woman. However, if my partner is any indication, I sorta can meet you half way.

Edited by strifus
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The girls got up in arms cause the boys were being dicks. Then the femmes became outrageously dicky,

and as a result, the boys rightly feel like their games are being taken off them, cause the femmes get to rule, for now,

because nobody really wants a sexual abuser tag put on them.

It's stupid, and childish, and the media loves it, and I bet the game makers are loving it a little bit too, as it might mean some

new game stories could come out of it, maybe. Instead of all the sequels, some actual new stories.

 

People need to step back from the key boards, go outside and take some air while it's still relatively

 

Id have to disagree with that evenln. Ive never disagreed with you before but I must in this case. Its just like the poster put in his post on the nastythings website. Its generalisations like that which carry on the stereotype. We arent all like that. In fact, a lot of us are mired in the crap that the minority actually stir up. Does that mean I am, or for that matter, any of the guys in the forum highly supportive of yourself, if not in the lives of the females in their lives.

 

But, coming back to the topic at hand, the trolling has been around for a very long time. I remember back in the early 2000s when I started frequenting LANs with my friends and discovered Counter Strike. I nearly gave it up altogether because of the dickiness of the people playing, mostly male but some females as well. However, I realised that they arent the reason I gamed but rather it was for me myself, and being with my friends. Its for me and me alone. Just like my life. No matter what you say or how you feel about it, whatever I do is for the best of my family and myself alone. Sure your advice and your opinions are welcome but dont expect it to be taken as Gospel, as my father used to say.

 

Eveln, I cant even begin to know how you feel on this matter because I am not a woman. However, if my partner is any indication, I sorta can meet you half way.

 

[emphasis ^^mine]

 

I read quite a lot of charcoals link to nastythings blog. I'm glad charcoal posted it here, and my post ( that you disagree with )

was made not long after reading nastythings. Sure I was generalising like there is no tomorrow, on purpose :)

 

Those opening comments relating to Anita were so fucking horrible and soooo serious sounding, it was incredible to read.

And just as horrible and serious are the ones directed at guys. People so serious in their hate. People sounding so devoid

of empathy... Over what ?? Seriously. Over What ?? << these are not directed at you per say strifus, it was how I felt on

reading nastythings.

And the passage of yours that I emphasised is brilliant, and is exactly why I play the few games I do, too. Walt listens to

an ign beyond podcast and one of the hosts Colin Moriarty, does not chat or interact with anyone at all ever whilst playing.

I know this because our place is small and when I'm home there's no escape ! :D

I mention this guy cos to my mind he seems thoroughly immersed in the gaming world and yet he distances himself from

others whilst playing. I like that he does that, and he is fine being that way.

 

My post is not alluding to the thousands out there that quite happily play together or not regardless of this mellowdrama.

It's referring to those responsible for posting the vile bile that is the focus just now.

As elvenwhore said earlier though, there are those who will play and converse naturally and companionably, and I reckon

because of this will win the long game for sure.

 

edit: just, because I felt it needed it.

Edited by eveln

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I'm completely over this whole affair. On one side, we have a vocal minority of gamers who are either vile misogynistic individuals, young ignorant teens, or professional shit stirrers. On the other, we have a vocal minority of feminists that are unapologetically intellectually dishonest, or professional victims (they've perfected the 'appeal to emotion' fallacy), in order to push what should be a positive message with ample legitimate concern. Both minorities are immature, and should vaporise into irrelevance at the earliest of convenience. Then the adults can talk.

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I just found this. It's a very long read and to be honest I didn't read it all.

But it hits on some good points and more to the point most of the comments are well thought out and are actually discussions.

 

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry

 

Hmmm.

 

"

We look around the male dominated offices, a sea of men, a handful of women, and yearn for a more equal gender balance, yet resume submissions are probably around 99% male, so what are we supposed to do about this, exactly? Tell us, please, and we will do it. It’s true the vast vast majority of game developers are male, so games are always going to be created from a male perspective while this is the case.

"

 

 

"Take your communications degree and use it to go talk to girls at schools around the country, and encourage them to take up careers in the games industry."

 

Hmmm.

 

Usually the observation is that getting women into male dominated industries is not so much the issue, but rather retaining them.

 

The same discussion is being had around STEM atm with much insightful commentary.

 

edit: 'cos there is no point in saying anything.

Edited by Catmosphere

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I just found this. It's a very long read and to be honest I didn't read it all.

But it hits on some good points and more to the point most of the comments are well thought out and are actually discussions.

 

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry

 

All round it's a pretty good post, I particularly liked the opening section with the modified quotes.

 

This comment, I think, sums up why I've stayed quiet in this^.

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-22

 

^Also, the fact that I know I'm nowhere near as good at communicating my ideas as most other people in this discussion/debate. I'm a programmer, not a writer.

 

 

To be honest, I think that article trivialises misogyny in gaming.

Sure, people have made rape threats against guys. I don't think anybody is saying that this hasn't happened.

However I haven't seem rape threats made against men, simply for espousing an opinion. I'm sure it's happened somewhere, but it seems far more common place for women. Harassment as a women in gaming, happens probably on a daily, perhaps hourly basis.

 

Codecreeper: Forget what people on the internet tell you is wrong with yourself. If your reaction, on finding out a woman is on your team in a game, isn't to treat them any differently, then you aren't part of the problem. I find it frankly disturbing. A couple of times I've been in a group, and had to pause because someone DCed (who happened to be female) and accidentally let slip that it's a she. And the response is full on moronic. People trying to friend her, commenting on the gear on her dota character, or even how well she plays. It's no wonder she has her profile on invisible.

 

Now I don't think we should all be worshipping on the alter of Quinn. It sounds like she's a flawed human being, who has potentially done things against her publicly (?) espoused moral code. That's really sad, but it doesn't appear to be undermining journalism, or any threat to our appreciation on in game boobs. The Quinn defenders have been flat out moronic. More damage has been done to gamer "feminism" and gamer "men's rights" than possibly anything else, though this sordid affair.

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Judith Butler has been the most influential on my perspective. She's a prolific author of articles, but 'Women and Social Transformations' collects a lot of these ideas into a single place. As mentioned, Sandra Harding is where the perspective on science has come from.

 

This is something that is being debated amongst Feminist groups at the moment. There is concern that the core messages are being lost or degraded in a disconnect between 'old knowledge' (books and people), and young internet users. This is a simplification, but essentially what it means to be Feminist is being taken away from people who have spent years studying it, and reinterpreted or ignored by people who learn about it in a casual and informal way. The manner in which this new Feminism presents itself is sometimes to the detriment of true progress.

 

Every reasonable person can agree that you should be paid the same amount of money for doing the same job, regardless of your gender, race, or sexuality. The problem with saying that this belief is enough to call yourself a Feminist, is that it ignores the work that needs to be done to make this so. Pay is not the problem, pay is only the symptom. The underlying problem is that our culture is set up to favour masculine traits [1]. Someone who is more aggressive in negotiating a pay rise, is benefited over someone who is passive. Saying that Feminism is equal pay, but not necessarily equal cultural values, is a way to normalise the idea that these cultural values shouldn't be equal. People who push for more than just fair pay can then be cast as 'others', so that society can carry on as 'normal'.

 

I used the science example specifically because I knew it was something that you were likely to disagree with. Just to be clear, I've presented other peoples ideas here, and they're not necessarily something I completely agree with. Not everything is gendered, particularly when it comes to science, though I do believe that the protocols of science favour masculine traits.

 

Ultimately, I think if someone wants to call themselves a Feminist, they have a responsibility to understand the history of the movement. This is so they are building ideas from established values, in the same way scientists build their knowledge from established values.

 

 

1. Note that when I use masculine and feminine, I'm not talking about chromosomal arrangement or gender identity. These traits exist independent of gender, and we label them feminine or masculine based on the historical meanings.

1. Thanks :) I'll look her up.

 

2. I see your point, but at the same time I strongly disagree with it. To my mind, the problem is more that we view traits as having a gendered identity. There's nothing intrinsic in the biology of a woman, that makes her less aggressive in negotiations. Isn't that just cultural bias? As men, we tend to react poorly to "strong" women. Women get labelled as bitches, and ball breakers for making comments, and using management strategies that we would consider perfectly normal for a man. To my mind, that's part of the problem. The culture of dismissing women's opinions when they talk quietly, and being butt-hurt if they exercise power. I think in terms of management, we haven't worked out good strategies for women to develop relationship power within organisations. Women that have done so successfully seem to end up doing well, but it seems like many women have trouble forming as well functioning professional relationships, and therefore fall back on role power to exert their will, which in both cases is objectionable generally, but seems "especially bad" when used by women.

 

I feel like shrugging and blaming it on us not having a framework where "emotions" are similar to "logic" is missing the forest for the trees. Women in general, seem likely to favour emotional solutions to problems, because that's how we train them to solve problems. You take a woman, and you train her from an early age to use logic, and she'll kick your arse at it. Women are out performing men at uni, and getting into uni. They outnumber us. And yet men are still dominating the top of companies. Normalising the possibility of men as home makers/child rearers and the destruction of mysticism of female "connectedness" with children, and time, will fix this.

 

40 years ago, melbourne was full of bars that were only for men. Or had men only areas. Social change has inertia, but equality is coming, and I don't believe that the problem is anything to do with masculinity or femininity (which I'm not sure what they are, in the absence of gender, if I'm honest (thats gender rather than sex)). Once most people are born into an environment with strong women, it will be normalised, and we can get rid of our moronic pretences. Men have just as much to gain from gender equality as women, we have our own myths, which many men would be happy to shed.

 

So yeah, your science example was an apt one. I guess my point isn't that we change our measuring sticks, some of which exist for a functional reason. We keep the functionality, and we just get rid of the argument that women are incapable of functioning in a certain way. Very little in the way of common discrimination appears to be on the basis of muscle mass.

Edited by TinBane
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There's nothing intrinsic in the biology of a woman, that makes her less aggressive in negotiations. Isn't that just cultural bias?

So yeah, your science example was an apt one. I guess my point isn't that we change our measuring sticks, some of which exist for a functional reason. We keep the functionality, and we just get rid of the argument that women are incapable of functioning in a certain way. Very little in the way of common discrimination appears to be on the basis of muscle mass.

 

Yup, you nailed exactly my objections to aspects of Feminism, and why I consider myself an Egalitarian.

 

I think there's work to be done in examining whether there is bias in selecting which traits are actually most functional for a particular task, and established hierarchies tend to make this difficult, but I'm confident that it is something we will eventually work out.

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Now I don't think we should all be worshipping on the alter of Quinn. It sounds like she's a flawed human being, who has potentially done things against her publicly (?) espoused moral code. That's really sad, but it doesn't appear to be undermining journalism, or any threat to our appreciation on in game boobs. The Quinn defenders have been flat out moronic.

This.

 

This a million times.

 

Obviously she shouldn't have had any death/rape threats and most of the personal attacks went way too far.

But she also shouldn't be the one that's held up as the paragon of equal opportunity game development; if only for the reasons in bold.

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Social change has inertia, but equality is coming, and I don't believe that the problem is anything to do with masculinity or femininity (which I'm not sure what they are, in the absence of gender, if I'm honest (thats gender rather than sex)).

I like to think they'll still be used, but in a historical or ironic context. That, or masculine and feminine will be totally decoupled from sex, so there'll be no shame/problem being a masculine female or feminine man (I don't want to run the permutations, pretend that's more inclusive)

/aside

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[another great post]

 

40 years ago, melbourne was full of bars that were only for men. Or had men only areas. Social change has inertia, but equality is coming, and I don't believe that the problem is anything to do with masculinity or femininity (which I'm not sure what they are, in the absence of gender, if I'm honest (thats gender rather than sex)).

 

 

Please excuse my cutting your post up...

 

I don't believe I'll be around to witness total equality of the sexes. Not on a broad scale anyways.

There are tiny pockets of it (equality) occurring here and there now which is a good thing.

But for those who are feeling 'over' the uproar that created this thread, I'd like to posit, that without the extended uproar the move

towards balance would not be continuing it's slow but steady movement.

It's like most things we do to get stuff happening, we over exaggerate and need to be 'hit over the head with a mallet' to be heard

and to get things dealt with ;) because if not enough of a fuss is made the issue is seen to be not that important. ...

 

... a bit like the quiet female that needs to get all in one's face to be registered :P

 

... it's just a pity some of those professing to want what's right are a lot sidetracked by their infamy.

edit: ^^ referring to the questionable antics of Anita and others involved.

Edited by eveln

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the questionable antics of Anita and others involved.

I had to waybackmachine the nastythings blog to read it. Her antics aren't just questionable, they are downright bloody disgusting.

 

From that site:

 

 

All these horrible comments, just because she’s a woman. Just because she’s a woman she has to put up with this torrent of abuse, threats of rape, death threats, and people wishing terminal diseases upon her. It’s no wonder she turned off comments on her video series.

No, just no. She turned off comments so people like the Let's Play video makers can't complain publicly that she stole their content to make out like she actually played the game. She turned off comments because she isn't interested in intelligent debate and discussion on making things equal. She only wants one voice, hers.

 

She IS an attention seeker. She got ~$150k to make videos, takes forever to put anything out, uses other peoples play videos instead of actually playing anything and when called on her shit, she cries that she is a victim and online media like Kotaku etc start fawning over her and giving her press.

 

She is a parasite and people need to stop watching her videos and giving her air time.

Edited by g0t.w00t?
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I hadn't watched any of her, Anita's stuff till it was posted here.

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the questionable antics of Anita and others involved.

I had to waybackmachine the nastythings blog to read it. Her antics aren't just questionable, they are downright bloody disgusting.

 

From that site:

 

 

All these horrible comments, just because she’s a woman. Just because she’s a woman she has to put up with this torrent of abuse, threats of rape, death threats, and people wishing terminal diseases upon her. It’s no wonder she turned off comments on her video series.

No, just no. She turned off comments so people like the Let's Play video makers can't complain publicly that she stole their content to make out like she actually played the game. She turned off comments because she isn't interested in intelligent debate and discussion on making things equal. She only wants one voice, hers.

 

She IS an attention seeker. She got ~$150k to make videos, takes forever to put anything out, uses other peoples play videos instead of actually playing anything and when called on her shit, she cries that she is a victim and online media like Kotaku etc start fawning over her and giving her press.

 

She is a parasite and people need to stop watching her videos and giving her air time.

 

 

 

lol. she's an outsider who looked at the content and analysed it critically against a series of criteria.

 

if you disagree with her what's wrong with just saying she's wrong and saying why? no skin of your nose. why are you giving her the time of day?

 

If she's right then... what does that mean to people who created, played and lived these games? I would suggest that this is why people are getting so upset - that she is right. That there is a pervasive culture of misogyny in these images and in these games and by extension in the industry as a whole.

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if you disagree with her what's wrong with just saying she's wrong and saying why? no skin of your nose. why are you giving her the time of day?

She is as entitled to her own opinions as the rest of us - and I for one don't even care what they might be. What I do care about is that she poisons other people's minds with her warped spiel. She's a bible-thumping hellfire & brimstone tent preacher, 'cept it ain't Jesus she's pushing - and that is what gets the reaction from me.

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Has anybody got any links to any neutral sources talking about what Sarkeesian allegedly did? I'd like to read up on it but most of the sources I know of are pretty questionable (MRA BS).

 

That's the one problem with this whole fiasco- virtually every piece is biased to one camp or another.

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Has anybody got any links to any neutral sources talking about what Sarkeesian allegedly did? I'd like to read up on it but most of the sources I know of are pretty questionable (MRA BS).

 

That's the one problem with this whole fiasco- virtually every piece is biased to one camp or another.

 

Here is a list of her terrible crimes!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Sarkeesian#Feminist_Frequency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropes_vs._Women_in_Video_Games

 

 

 

I would suggest that this is why people are getting so upset - that she is right. That there is a pervasive culture of misogyny in these images and in these games and by extension in the industry as a whole.

 

 

And there's the truth to it all.

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I do have to say, there is a sense of kneejerk anger to the reactions some have for Sarkeesian.

 

I've seen a few of her videos and while I can see how it'd get men's hackles up, I'm also not seeing the autocratic dictators some preach about- just a bunch of critiques we'd rather not have to confront.

 

I dunno. Maybe I'm missing the vids where she goes full Hitler?

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the questionable antics of Anita and others involved.

I had to waybackmachine the nastythings blog to read it. Her antics aren't just questionable, they are downright bloody disgusting.

 

From that site:

 

 

All these horrible comments, just because she’s a woman. Just because she’s a woman she has to put up with this torrent of abuse, threats of rape, death threats, and people wishing terminal diseases upon her. It’s no wonder she turned off comments on her video series.

No, just no. She turned off comments so people like the Let's Play video makers can't complain publicly that she stole their content to make out like she actually played the game. She turned off comments because she isn't interested in intelligent debate and discussion on making things equal. She only wants one voice, hers.

 

She IS an attention seeker. She got ~$150k to make videos, takes forever to put anything out, uses other peoples play videos instead of actually playing anything and when called on her shit, she cries that she is a victim and online media like Kotaku etc start fawning over her and giving her press.

 

She is a parasite and people need to stop watching her videos and giving her air time.

 

 

 

lol. she's an outsider who looked at the content and analysed it critically against a series of criteria.

People are upset with her because she took money, saying she would play the games and analyse them. Instead she ripped off others work and tried to pass it off as her own. That's what riles me up.

 

If you look at one game she DID play, Hitman, she goes out of her way to kill the showgirls/strippers/whatever and drag their bodies around before dumping them in a box. She rants about how this is so mysoginistic and trashes the game and the people who play it. What's wrong here? You actually get penalised for killing those women, because it has nothing to do with the story and they are just bystanders. She is doing things specifically to create something to whine about.

 

She is not, and has never been right. She is a thief and a professional victim. She can preach all she wants as far as I am concerned, just without the fake talking points she inserts (see Hitman above) and the stolen content. There is an issue that needs dealing with. Listening to someone like her however isn't the way to deal with it.

 

Like I said before, women make up half the gamer populace only when farmville/candy crush etc are added in. It is still predominantly male in the mainstream AAA title sector. Should this be addressed? Sure, but you can't expect game devs to add all the extra man-hours (excuse the term :P) to modify something like Hitman, or Assassins Creed, or Battlefield/CoD to animate the extra character models and their equipment etc etc etc for a much smaller percentage of gamers who play them. Majority rules in AAA titles, and the the aim is to make money, not spend it on 20% or less of the players. If more women get out there and contribute pro-actively without going "feminazi" then that's great, but Sarkeesian is not and should not be a role model or someone taken seriously.

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