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eveln

Burka Behind Glass

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Are you anti-dress and skirts to the point of making them illegal, eveln, because you might hypothetically be forced to wear them, too? We might be forced to not drink alcohol, so we'd better never sober up?

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Are you anti-dress and skirts to the point of making them illegal, eveln, because you might hypothetically be forced to wear them, too? We might be forced to not drink alcohol, so we'd better never sober up?

Why would you ask if I'm anti-dress and skirts ?

I don't understand you being obtuse like this.

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Your argument seems to be that we shouldn't have burkas and niqabs and potentially even hijabs because you would hate to be forced to wear one, and you think that we, a bunch of guys, would not like to wear them either.

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Your argument seems to be that we shouldn't have burkas and niqabs and potentially even hijabs because you would hate to be forced to wear one, and you think that we, a bunch of guys, would not like to wear them either.

Why ! I never presumed to know what a bunch of guys would like to wear ... I'm still trying to get an answer to that one.

 

How 'bout you Nich, would you like to wear a burka or niqab every day ?

 

Also if that's what you think my argument is then I give up ;)

Edited by eveln

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I know of Muslim people and people who are non practising Muslim who don't wear any form of headdress.

 

And the ones who do wear these things say it is by choice.

 

 

If you are a child going along to church with your parents, well then that's a different situation as you do what your parents tell you to do.

Edited by PointZeroOne

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Having an opinion that differs from you is not being childish.

 

 

I wasn't referring to your opinions.

 

I was referring to the passive aggressive tone you took, and which you upped a notch in your subsequent reply.

 

What is this "cop out" that you're referring to, and why is it that you're glad that you have quoted me?

Edited by Captain Awesome!

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How 'bout you Nich, would you like to wear a burka or niqab every day ?

Unless I was travelling on foot through the desert (dessert?), or it was required for work as a uniform, I wouldn't. I don't like wearing suits and ties, tho'. I also don't have a cultural background that wearing one would make me feel closer to.
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Your argument seems to be that we shouldn't have burkas and niqabs and potentially even hijabs because you would hate to be forced to wear one, and you think that we, a bunch of guys, would not like to wear them either.

Why ! I never presumed to know what a bunch of guys would like to wear ... I'm still trying to get an answer to that one.

 

 

How 'bout you Nich, would you like to wear a burka or niqab every day ?

Unless I was travelling on foot through the desert (dessert?), or it was required for work as a uniform, I wouldn't. I don't like wearing suits and ties, tho'. I also don't have a cultural background that wearing one would make me feel closer to.

 

 

I'm struggling to see the relevance of the question.

 

As Nich alludes to, I cannot answer the question because I'm neither female nor Muslim.

 

I must say though, it seems Eveln, like you're arguing that because you don't like the burka, nobody else does so, again, you're kind of arguing for a whole bunch of people that you don't know. I have seen plenty of articles over the last week by Muslim women that state that they choose to wear the Burka/Niqab and I'm happy to accept them at their word.

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If it's for modesty then why don't the males wear it? I don't think there's a single male head covering that covers the face, disregarding the ones that might be worn in hot desert environments for mainly practical purposes.

 

It's a garment designed to denigrate females. To make them look like little more than shitkicker Jawas that roam the desert scavenging droids to be polished up and sold to peasant farmers.

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I just don't understand why legislating against the burqa is seen as some kind of liberation.

 

If it was about that, surely we'd do better to empower Muslim women to make the choice for themselves and protect that choice from external coercion, not just switch it out for a slightly different form of coercion.

 

In other words, I don't see "I have to wear a burqa or my husband will beat me" as a quandary that can be solved by "I can't wear a burqa because I'll be arrested." It can only be solved by "I choose whether or not to wear a burqa/hijab/etc because I live in a society where I am encouraged to be my own person and make my own choices, and I am supported by a society that will not let anyone force that choice upon me."

Edited by aquilus
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What kind of unsafe things have been done by people wearing a burqa/niqab, in Australia? What is there to actually be afraid of by someone wearing more clothing in the name of modesty than someone else wears?

 

 

What kinds of 'unsafe things' (Lets face it, we're talking about acts of terrorism here) have been done by people NOT wearing a Burqa? Oh, that's right, none. The argument is a social one, that women should not be forced to wear a completely concealing outfit if they don;t want to (yeah, sure, who's to say right?), that hiding yourself from the rest of society is, well, pretty unsociable and sends a message in itself. And yes it is 'possible' to hide all kinds of dangerous things in there that one couldn't hide wearing normal clothing. And then there's the safety aspect, some burqua only have a small slit to see out of and even them some of those are covered in a mesh, how does that affect their vision when driving a car? And for purposes of identification by the police? Also, if everyone else in the nation has to remove their head covering when entering banks and other institutions then those rule should apply here as well. I mean it would be nice if we could ALL get a pass on certain laws just because of our beliefs now wouldn't it? But basically I think most people see it as so antithetical to our culture that it is easy to see it as another act of contempt against the people who have given them refuge from the dark-ages hellhole that they were forced to flee in the first place.

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I used to find it galling to have to wear a hat or scarf and a dress or skirt to church each Sunday too. Shorts or long pants to church ?

You must be joking !?! A girl wears a dress or skirt of appropriate length and a head covering !!! Those were the rules .

 

We've got past that thankfully. I will not accept the burka or niqab as okay.

Exclusive Brethren and Brethren, both evangelical Christian sects, do require women to wear skirts (never pants or shorts) at all times, not just at meetings. Women are also not permitted to speak at an Exclusive Brethren service.

 

So no, not so far past, apparently. Depends on where you look and how hard you're looking for stuff :-)

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How 'bout you Nich, would you like to wear a burka or niqab every day ?

Unless I was travelling on foot through the desert (dessert?), or it was required for work as a uniform, I wouldn't. I don't like wearing suits and ties, tho'. I also don't have a cultural background that wearing one would make me feel closer to.

 

I don't mind the idea of a suit. I think Jackets are a marvellous invention. The tie however, now that's just downright foolhardy,

and bloody dangerous to boot. Way too easy to hurt yourself, or have someone hurt you if you wear a tie.

Same with scarves too really. From keeping your neck warm and the sun off it can also be caught in machinery or a handy grabbing

tool for someone wanting to do you harm.

As for cultural identity, meh, I don't get it.

 

 

Your argument seems to be that we shouldn't have burkas and niqabs and potentially even hijabs because you would hate to be forced to wear one, and you think that we, a bunch of guys, would not like to wear them either.

Why ! I never presumed to know what a bunch of guys would like to wear ... I'm still trying to get an answer to that one.

 

 

How 'bout you Nich, would you like to wear a burka or niqab every day ?

Unless I was travelling on foot through the desert (dessert?), or it was required for work as a uniform, I wouldn't. I don't like wearing suits and ties, tho'. I also don't have a cultural background that wearing one would make me feel closer to.

 

 

I'm struggling to see the relevance of the question.

 

As Nich alludes to, I cannot answer the question because I'm neither female nor Muslim.

 

I must say though, it seems Eveln, like you're arguing that because you don't like the burka, nobody else does so, again, you're kind of arguing for a whole bunch of people that you don't know. I have seen plenty of articles over the last week by Muslim women that state that they choose to wear the Burka/Niqab and I'm happy to accept them at their word.

 

The question is relevant because I've asked it here in this thread. If it's okay for the women to be wrapped up, then

why do you as a guy have an issue with saying how you'd feel about wearing the costume ? It would be no less of an ordeal for you

surely, I'm not asking you to put your big feet into dainty ankle-breaking high heels here ... in that regard the costume is just as

safe for you to wear as it is the women.

 

You want to make it like I have some sort of following that I'm arguing for ...o_0 ...strange behaviour from you is strange.

 

All I've done is give you and this thread my feelings about the burka and niqab and wigs that must be worn outside of the house

by women, because their culture / religion tells them too .

I also prefer it if people took off their sunglasses

When trying to interact with them yes. It's like talking to someone with a perma-wall attached.

 

I used to find it galling to have to wear a hat or scarf and a dress or skirt to church each Sunday too. Shorts or long pants to church ?

You must be joking !?! A girl wears a dress or skirt of appropriate length and a head covering !!! Those were the rules .

 

We've got past that thankfully. I will not accept the burka or niqab as okay.

Exclusive Brethren and Brethren, both evangelical Christian sects, do require women to wear skirts (never pants or shorts) at all times, not just at meetings. Women are also not permitted to speak at an Exclusive Brethren service.

 

So no, not so far past, apparently. Depends on where you look and how hard you're looking for stuff :-)

 

I'm not actively looking. This burka (niqab) thing is sort of being shoved at me through my media. And as such I'm voicing

my utter loathing for the garments.

 

Making it a thing that people Must wear something to feel connected to their chosen society is soooo controling it's sickening.

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Captain Awesome!

 

Let me address some of your points.

 

1) A burka is not a Muslim garment

2) No where in any Islamic book is a burka described or mention

3) Muslims are not enforced to wear a burka by faith

4) A burka is not a Muslim garment

5) Stop saying a Burka is required to be worn by people of the Islamic faith

6) A BURKA PREDATES ISLAM

 

 

I hope you get the point, stop spreading lies about its requirment for Muslims. IT IS CULTURE CLOTHING. Burkas where around BEFORE Islam was INVENTED in 600AD.

 

Now i dont think the Burka should be banned. BUT they MUST remove it before entering banks and petrol stations just like I have to remove my helmet.

 

Tell us tho.. explain this..

wearing Muslim garb isn't a choice?

whether disliking Muslim garb is justified or not

 

Prove that an item of clothing that predates Islam is Muslim garb? Why is it Muslim garb now but wasnt when the arabs lived in the desert and needed protection from sand storms.

We do not live in a desert and its the 21st century. They should get no privledge where someone wearing a motobike helmet does not

 

Lets all repeat this so we stop peddling untruths.

 

It is a cultural garment not a religous one

It is a cultural garment not a religous one

It is a cultural garment not a religous one

Edited by xnatex
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I think the only reason they "choose" to wear them is because they will get beaten to a pulp at home if they refuse.

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What kinds of 'unsafe things' (Lets face it, we're talking about acts of terrorism here) have been done by people NOT wearing a Burqa? Oh, that's right, none.

Police shootings (on both sides) didn't wear a burqa, right? Bali bombings? Growing sarin to send to Japan? etc etc etc

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Yeah that Campaign is a joke, wearing a Hijab in solidarity with people wearing Burkas is exactly the same as people wearing Shorts in solidarity with people who wear long pants.

 

Or wearing Tshirts to show your support for people who wear jumpers lol.

 

Missing the point completly, no one has any issues with a Hijab.

 

My culture is wearing Thongs, Caps and singlets. I cant wear my culture clothing in most pubs, Hotels, RSL's. Why not? because Australia is not a free country to wear whatever you want where ever you want.

Edited by xnatex

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DRESS CODES APPLY**

 

*Unless you're Muslim then you can wear what ever you want, even if its not mandated by your religion just say it is, people will believe you.

 

 

You cant even wear a cap in a lot of places because the security will say "the CCTV cant see people under caps"

 

Oh what you're Muslim? well you're exempt then.Its only fair that a secular country have different rules for people from different cultures.

Edited by xnatex
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What kinds of 'unsafe things' (Lets face it, we're talking about acts of terrorism here) have been done by people NOT wearing a Burqa? Oh, that's right, none.

Police shootings (on both sides) didn't wear a burqa, right? Bali bombings? Growing sarin to send to Japan? etc etc etc

 

Oh I see, I thought you were referring to Australia. My bad.

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Welcome to Australia, we have different rules for different people. If you dont like double standards you're an Islamaphobic racist. Now take off your Hats, helmets and masks.

 

I wish i had a story of magic spells and flying donkeys from 1,400 years ago to justify my fashion sence. Oh wait. "The Quran has no requirement that women cover their faces with a veil, or cover their bodies with the full-body burqua or chador.[2]"

 

 

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Edited by xnatex
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I'm not going to run off on all the tangents raised in this thread. I'm not sure there's much more in the way of productive conversation to be had in this thread, so I'll summarise my points as follows:

 

1) There is no security basis for the parliament Burqa/Niqab measures. People wearing the garment are subjected to the same security measures as everyone else.

 

2) Not liking something is not an excuse for making special laws for it. If we make segregational laws on the basis of "not liking" something, we're no different to Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, or any one of the Fundamentalist Islamic States that we purport to be more socially advanced than. The question of whether these garbs are religious or cultural is irrelevant and, by extension, so is the question of whether exclusionary laws are therefore justified.

 

3) Assuming that Muslim women have no choice in wearing the Burqa/Niqab is a prejudiced assumption.

 

4) Making people feel unwelcome in their own country is no way to fight extremism. You cannot fight extremism with extremism.

Edited by Captain Awesome!
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...

...once the PM came to his senses and realised allowing the lunatic fringe to set policy is not a great idea.

 

 

So he's resigning then? :p Edited by TechHeadFred

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