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Catmosphere

Was Jesus a misoginist?

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Inspired by the counter-petition about violence against women in GTAV5 trying to get the bible stopped from being sold at Target (who don't sell it) comments have been made on misogyny in the bible.

 

Rather than distract from what is hopefully a profitable thread up in the gaming section (and I'm about to stick GTA5 in my XboxOne to see for myself), here's a thread for those comments.

 

For myself,

yes the bible contains lots of misogyny. It also contains lots and lots of appalling other behavior. If it's horrible you will be able to find an example in there. I could point these out for you if you like but a bit of simple searching will give you all sorts of examples even from some of the most famous and loved figures in there.

 

Now in the case of Jesus himself, this is where it gets cool: he treats women, really really well. He is totally amazing actually. And this is where I'm ok with the rest of the bible with their horrible examples - because they are just examples of what people and human nature is like and what happens in the world. There are no surprises here. The bible is not naive about what people are like. It doesn't exhort that behaviour, and Jesus himself flips some of that behaviour on it's head.

 

Anyway... thread started just in case people were tempted to mess up a gaming thread... if so post here... meanwhile.... lemme go talk to my XBoxOne...

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So what about Adam and Eve ,was Adam misogynist ? If so how did the fertilisation proceed?

 

If women want to think all males are misogynists then something is very wrong with females today. Games are games its only a story in action ,like a book.

 

Should we ban all Books on War dictating raping of women in Wars too.

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Who accused Jesus of misogyny? It's not in that GTA V thread or the petition. In fact you're the only one who asserted it.

 

 

ok, the direct quote is:

 

mine:

 

 

Okay, this is by far the best retaliation Change.org petition. Banning the bible for misogyny!

 

And yet Jesus was so much not about misogyny. So as Jesus is the highest example and anything that falls short of that example is just an example of stuff not to do. Like any story really.

 

Meh. Not that effective really. Not in the light of what Jesus was on about.

 

then urs:

 

I'm afraid you can't cherry pick a book which holds claim to be holy and true in its entirety. Besides, he's not the moral figurehead that Sunday services would like people to believe. He may have been progressive 2000 years ago, but he failed to denounce and even condoned horrific acts such as slavery.

 

But this is too heavy for what should have been a quick laugh. They don't really expect their petition to be acted upon.

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So. Jesus was actually misogynistic black woman with the freakish trait of red hair hey ?

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Well it goes like this... Jesus is like the pinnacle... so everything ultimately comes down to him... so... he was the perfect example and the only one who fully fulfilled the law. So when you try to ban the bible for being about misogyny, and ultimately the bible is all about Jesus being the absolute fulfillment of everything, then you're accusing Jesus for standing for misogyny.

 

Somehow I don't feel like you guys truly have your heart in this thread.

 

And drat it... I moved my XboxOne and now the screen is not turning on or connecting or soemthing... time to check connections.

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Well it goes like this... Jesus is like the pinnacle... so everything ultimately comes down to him... so... he was the perfect example and the only one who fully fulfilled the law. So when you try to ban the bible for being about misogyny, and ultimately the bible is all about Jesus being the absolute fulfillment of everything, then you're accusing Jesus for standing for misogyny.

 

Somehow I don't feel like you guys truly have your heart in this thread.

 

And drat it... I moved my XboxOne and now the screen is not turning on or connecting or soemthing... time to check connections.

 

That's your interpretation of the bible. The great thing about unfalsafiable claims is that you can invent whatever interpretation you like, and there's no way you can claim it's any less valid than the infinite other possible interpretations.

 

The bible is about as moral as its perpetual (often severely delayed) reinterpretation to modern reasoned moral standards.

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" Somehow I don't feel like you guys truly have your heart in this thread."...

 

Sorry Catmosphere. It's finally Friday night and I'm being flippant ;)

... my truth is, I never cared enough to fully read the bible. - And I've just realised why I have a fairly casual relationship

to Catholicism. I was never made to sit and read it cover to cover, not even by the nuns. It may sound ignorant of me, but

the urge to read it is an urge I'm still waiting to have. I read bits at school and was repetitively told about numerous stories,

but I can honestly say the detail has been mostly forgotten.

And for me that works :) So having said that I should and will just bow out of this thread...

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Yep. I'm quite happy with that interpretation of the bible after a fair amount of study and cross referencing. As you say that's *my* interpretation. And you have made your own interpretation on... what you've read, what others have read, what you've read written *about* the bible I'm guessing?

 

So my starting point for this discussion would be Jesus himself and the way he treats women. As ultimately that is the pinnacle type of behaviour to aim for.

 

So...

sexual sin- he *didn't* stone her and shamed everyone else into not stoning her either.

he honored prostitutes who had repented eg woman who cried over his feet - and was very gentle with them.

he went straight to what mattered when women were living in non society approved living arrangements with men that they weren't married to - woman at the well -

and in that same passage he demonstrates he was happy to chat to women about political issues and go straight to the heart of things - he didn't treat them as stupid and had no qualms talking to them (contextually that's quite stunning but besides the point here)

he believed in women's education (mary and martha)

... and some other examples.

 

 

 

" Somehow I don't feel like you guys truly have your heart in this thread."...

 

Sorry Catmosphere. It's finally Friday night and I'm being flippant ;)

... my truth is, I never cared enough to fully read the bible. - And I've just realised why I have a fairly casual relationship

to Catholicism. I was never made to sit and read it cover to cover, not even by the nuns. It may sound ignorant of me, but

the urge to read it is an urge I'm still waiting to have. I read bits at school and was repetitively told about numerous stories,

but I can honestly say the detail has been mostly forgotten.

And for me that works :) So having said that I should and will just bow out of this thread...

 

heh. you've read enough to understand quotes and context though - you have a working knowledge which is more than some, and that works for this culture.(Shakespeare, law, etc, etc)

 

and you're right... it's Friday night... and i should be trying harder to get this XBox to work...

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Holy shit this thread descended into derpitude quickly.

 

Anywho, Jesus comes out of the bible pretty damn good. But reading some of the texts that didn't make it in to the bible makes him even more of an all round good guy. The gospel of Mary, for instance, where he places Mary (the apostle, not his mum) in a position not only equal to men, but above them.

 

Of course there is also the one which I think is called the gospel of the infancy of Jesus, where he turns a dude blind for slagging off his dad's work. So, like most people, it really depends on what you're reading ;)

 

-X

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i dont think theres any disputing it.

 

its right there in Jesus' motto: "Loaves, Fishes! Sammiches, Bitches!"

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Well it goes like this... Jesus is like the pinnacle... so everything ultimately comes down to him... so... he was the perfect example and the only one who fully fulfilled the law. So when you try to ban the bible for being about misogyny, and ultimately the bible is all about Jesus being the absolute fulfillment of everything, then you're accusing Jesus for standing for misogyny.

 

well, i think its valid enough to forumulate the question as you did, whether or not you were going to make certain qualifiers and distinctions in the OP.

 

lets just keep in mind though, the part that some people would hold most answerable to the charge of misogyny would be the Old Testament, which was cooked up before Jesus arrived, and is a little over half the bible's word count.

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Yep. I'm quite happy with that interpretation of the bible after a fair amount of study and cross referencing. As you say that's *my* interpretation. And you have made your own interpretation on... what you've read, what others have read, what you've read written *about* the bible I'm guessing?

 

So my starting point for this discussion would be Jesus himself and the way he treats women. As ultimately that is the pinnacle type of behaviour to aim for.

 

So...

sexual sin- he *didn't* stone her and shamed everyone else into not stoning her either.

he honored prostitutes who had repented eg woman who cried over his feet - and was very gentle with them.

he went straight to what mattered when women were living in non society approved living arrangements with men that they weren't married to - woman at the well -

and in that same passage he demonstrates he was happy to chat to women about political issues and go straight to the heart of things - he didn't treat them as stupid and had no qualms talking to them (contextually that's quite stunning but besides the point here)

he believed in women's education (mary and martha)

... and some other examples.

 

The bible is a collection of books by mortal humans (because there's no empirical evidence to the supernatural claims) which is loosely coupled to some verifiable historical events. There's no historical evidence that the character Jesus ever existed. We do not even know who the authors of many of the books are. If you assert without empirical evidence that the the bible must be true in one of its many interpretations, you'd be just as justified presenting LoTR as a holy text. Scientology exists as a functioning example of fiction becoming holy.

 

You believe that this Jesus character treats woman fine. That's great. This does not nullify the claims made in the GTA V petition, which references the book in its entirety. It's impossible to lay claim on a correct interpretation of the book when a) It makes unfalsifiable claims, b) You make unfalsifiable claims in its interpretation (e.g. Jesus is the 'pinnacle'), c) You assert that there is a correct interpretation to be found, d) You assert that this correct interpretation is actually true.

 

So now you expect me to continue with this thread under your own assertions? No thanks. It'd be a philosophical debate at the very best. Like analysing the moral stances of Spiderman. That's not something that interests me.

 

Edit: Sorry if this post comes across as too direct. From experience, If I make controversial posts overly relaxed some fool will pop in to take it on a magical adventure into tangent land.

Edited by .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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So dad wrote a book (via dictation) about his son, whom he was parading as a candidate for world domination leadership. Of course it's not going to be accurate - it's all marketing and PR spin.

 

This is the reality of divine power:

l8POAho.jpg

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Catty, blow these nerds minds by rolling a 3rd tier, Ancient, Founder, epic triple class ninja batman raid build female Jesus.

 

 

edit

 

fuck forgot the epic, very important that.

Edited by Betzie

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If the bad in the Bible is ok because of the Good Paragon that Jesus provides, then is it ok to have GTA5 be patched to include actual allowable sexual violence against women, as long as there's the choice (or a character) in there who doesn't give in to temptation? I think that would make a lot of people upset - and wouldn't be allowed for sale in Australia.

 

 

Anyway, just leaving this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb:_The_Gospel_According_to_Biff,_Christ%27s_Childhood_Pal

 

 

So what about Adam and Eve ,was Adam misogynist ? If so how did the fertilisation proceed?

You don't have to like something to put your dick in it and oops surprise pregnancy.

 

If women want to think all males are misogynists then something is very wrong with females today.

If you want to think that there's something very wrong with females today, there's probably something wrong with you.

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Catty, blow these nerds minds by rolling a 3rd tier, Ancient, Founder, epic triple class ninja batman raid build female Jesus.

 

 

edit

 

fuck forgot the epic, very important that.

 

Epic? Resurrection is only a 7th-level spell (in 3.5 at least), so that's only a 13th level Cleric.

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I heard 'Good Paragon' and now I can't stop thinking about Jesus as Commander Shepard.

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I heard 'Good Paragon' and now I can't stop thinking about Jesus as Commander Shepard.

I'm Jesus Christ, and this is my favourite retailer in Jerusalem!
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