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Fez

Need some relationship advice about a friend and her boyfriend. How to save her.

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This is just a brief rundown of the situation:

 

She is 24, ex-alcoholic, ex-heroin user and former sex worker. Has not done any of these things for 41/2 years.

Suffers from severe anxiety, panic attacks and depression. Very opressed by her boyfriend who she does not even like or love, only with him because she is scared of being alone and scared she may go back to her drink, drug and worker days.

 

He is 47, uses extreme controlling behaviour against her telling her what and when to eat, what tv shows she can and cant watch, what music she can and cant listen to. She has no other friends apart from me cause he wont let her have other friends.Threatens to go back to using heroin or commit suicide if she leaves him. Deliberately makes himself sick so that he can get her to look after him. Never flushes the toilet even after doing a shit, he makes her do it. Pisses all over the floor and toilet making her clean it up. Forced her to become vegetarian and is about to start forcing her to become vegan. The only good thing he has done was to get her away from her old life of drink, drugs and sex working.

 

Everytime I see how unhappy she is I get really upset and then VERY agro to the point of almost doing something stupid.

 

He has stopped her from seeing me now because I challenge everything he has brainwashed her to beleive and she was starting to see things clearly.

 

She and I were friends before he came along and I reckon she was happier before than what she is now.

 

I have told her that to be truly happy and free she must get rid of him. How can I save her from this f**kwit?

 

Thanks.

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Women have a habit of hooking up with such losers.

 

Best thing she could do is just piss the cunt off. If he tops himself, who fucken cares?

 

Biggest favour you could do him - grab a couple of mates and beat 7 shades of shit out of him. Problem is though, you'd be in the wrong and he'd just use it to continue his own victim mentality behaviour.

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She knows where the front door is ,she can leave. If you say its a control situation then its up to the Social Service ,Police cannot interfere unless violence is involved.

 

The other main factor is they are not married ,so police cannot act in that respect.

 

If this person is so scared to do anything and you are standing by doing nothing ,you could be classified as an "accessory to the fact" by law. If her life is taken.

 

It would be better to tell her to walk away or you will walk and never see her again ,and mean it. She has to make a choice on her own.

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Additionally, tell her that an individual isn't going to stop her going back to drink or drugs - and especially not a crackpot one like him. What will help is AA, NA and/or D&A Councelling services.

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Hmmmm

 

The only person who can really save her is herself, for the most part. Abusive relationships can do really weird things to people, especially if they're not in a good place to start with. It's easy let yourself get trapped in the familiar.

 

Short of you forcibly removing her from the situation, all you can do is offer to be there and support her if and when she builds up the courage to leave him and his bullshit. It's important that she realises the world won't fall apart if she walks away from him.

 

It's extremely hard to watch, unfortunately it's extremely difficult to save people from themselves.

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Controlling aspects of a person's behaviour: check.
Subtly isolating a person from any other support networks thereby making sole dependence on them: check.
Effectively forcing a person to do things they don't want to: check.
Threats of self-harm to get what they want: check.

Sounds like classic psychological abuse. If it's not physical yet, it's only a matter of time, and in many ways this kind of abuse is just as damaging.

 

Unfortunately you can't save her. I completely relate to wanting to bust down the door, beat the tar out of the guy and take her away from him forever, but all that'll do is get you in trouble and probably see her punished for your interference. All you can do is do your best to be there for her in whatever way you can. She will need every friend she can get if she's to muster up the confidence to leave this guy. Abuse goes hand in hand with destroyed self-esteem - your best bet is to offset every time he breaks her down by reminding her of what you find awesome about her. If you can try to show her the good outside of her relationship, perhaps it will eventually inspire her to take the necessary step.

 

In short - you can't save her, but you can try to help her save herself.

Edited by aquilus

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Start by being more honest with yourself. You're not "saving" anybody here, you're simply trying to break up a relationship (perhaps with the hope of starting a new one with your friend?) If she wants your help in doing so, be supportive, but even then things will likely not turn out the way you expect.

 

My advice is to resign yourself to being a supportive friend and don't interfere on your own accord. If you were less emotionally involved in this you'd hear all those alarm bells ringing in your head. Fair warning!

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i reckon you need to help her become proactive about building bridges into the outside world. she probably sees it as a big black void. beyond whatever twisted emotional entanglement she may have with this dickhead, the idea of actually leaving may not even begin to become conceivable to her until she forges some kind of independent attachment to life outside.

 

something, anything, away from the house, completely on her own terms. some kind of short course, some kind of club, some kind of craft bullshit -- anything she can join and be a part of that is minimal enough at first to fly under his radar.

 

she has to start spending little grabs time with new people who are not only not out to manipulating her -- but maybe even genuinely interested in her input, her opinions, her decisions. she has to validate to herself something that in her current condition is probably no longer blindingly obvious: that she is not so broken she cant do stuff herself. maybe then she can awaken a spark of self-righteous rage at becoming infantilised in this way. to my mind, all the angst in the world is not likely to be a strong enough motivator until it is coupled with a rebuilt and strong sense of volition -- and then more ambitious longer term exfiltration plans can be contemplated.

 

having said that, if she has someone like a relative, preferably in another state, who would take her in, maybe get her the fuck out now.

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Threatens to go back to using heroin or commit suicide if she leaves him.

 

Sounds like he's already given her the answer of how to deal with him.

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She and I were friends before he came along and I reckon she was happier before than what she is now.

 

Are you a part of her old world Fez, in that you partake of drugs and shit ?

Is that what the bf has against you, other than the stated control issues I mean ? It's not a question you have to answer on here,

it's just my thinking on your statement above is all.

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Thanks for your advice everyone.

 

Ok I need to make some things clear.

 

I am not interested in her in any way, ONLY as a friend, I have been with my girlfriend since 1997 and its all good.

 

Their relationship is not physically abusive (yet, unless she keeps it secret).

 

I should have added that the only good thing he has done was to get her to stop drink, drugs and sex work but he only did that because he is a very jealous and controlling person.

 

And now an update: I texted him and asked if she could come to woolies shopping with me (Woolies is 100 metres away) to which he stated that "I was freaking THEM out and to just leave it". More like him (She didnt seem freaked out when I saw her this afternoon in the hallway looking really sad and all she did was give me a little wave, she couldnt say hello because the dickhead was just inside their front door).

 

I replied to his text with "What have I done? Nothing thats what, but fine, no probs. Just to remind you again though, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN (GIRLS NAME). We were friends before you came along and it will stay that way, FRIENDS. Thanks for making me feel like a peice of shit because of YOUR insecurities and paranoia over (GIRLS NAME)".

 

I have not received a reply 4 hours later......gee I wonder why.

 

I think after sending that to him I may never see her again :-(

 

Fez.


 


She and I were friends before he came along and I reckon she was happier before than what she is now.

 

Are you a part of her old world Fez, in that you partake of drugs and shit ?

Is that what the bf has against you, other than the stated control issues I mean ? It's not a question you have to answer on here,

it's just my thinking on your statement above is all.

 

I am happy to answer ALL questions in regard to helping her.

 

No I am clean and sober and not a part of her old life/world etc.

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I'm not an expert.

 

These people are: http://www.dvcs.org.au

 

Contact them and ask them.

 

AD

Already have called them, well the NSW domestic violence mob. They were somewhat helpful but it left me needing more help and info.

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Cool. Wasn't trying to be rude. It's just I have little left to offer beyond 'man advice'. "Try this".

 

Does she keep in contact with her family? Do you? Could you?

 

AD

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She and I were friends before he came along and I reckon she was happier before than what she is now.

 

Are you a part of her old world Fez, in that you partake of drugs and shit ?

Is that what the bf has against you, other than the stated control issues I mean ? It's not a question you have to answer on here,

it's just my thinking on your statement above is all.

 

I am happy to answer ALL questions in regard to helping her.

 

No I am clean and sober and not a part of her old life/world etc.

Fine.

I just read your reply to AD so there goes the rest of my post :) except maybe ... don't get caught up in it all. Be a friend .

A fairly sane positive friend happy with the life he shares with his partner ...

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She has a very strained relationship with her Father, they kind of get along but its weird, I have only met him 3-4 times and he seems ok but there is probably some issues that go way back.

 

I think I might have to take a step back and see what happens with this situation, it's doing my head in. Advice is still welcome.

 

Thank You one and all for your help.

 

Fez

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Not much to add to what's already been said. If she's staying with this loser because of deeper issues then maybe it's the deeper issues that need addressing, I'm constantly amazed at the self-destructive things that people do because they have a bad self image, even seemingly well-balanced people. If you can get her to a good counsellor/psychologist then that might be the way to go. Until those issues are addressed and dealt with then she wont have the confidence to leave the loser or stay away from drugs/whoring. The loser boyfriend, the drugs and prostitution are merely symptoms. And it doesn't sound like you're in the position to take her in to take care of her either.

 

Just my 2c

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Some people are so genuinely unhappy inside, that making someone else happy, at any cost, gives them worth.

 

Is it the best way? Hell no.

But does it genuinely make them feel good? Something they couldn't otherwise feel? Usually.

 

 

If it gets too bad, she knows you're there to help as an 'escape'.

But if self degrading behavior is making her 'happy' then on rare occasions its worth the sacrifices.

 

I only know, because I've been there. It wasn't romantic, it was 'friends' relationships, but giving everything I owned\could to them made me feel important. Nothing I could have done otherwise would have. A few years passed and I started to feel 'left out' because no one gave me stuff, and I woke up. But if not for devaluing myself, I'd have felt useless and possibly have done something stupid.

 

The mind is a wierd place, and you can't always observe it externally.

Edited by Master_Scythe

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Chicks are mostly crazy, some like (altho they wont admit it) being in these types of relationships. Ive seen girls go from 1 relationship to the next all with the same type of guys. With the same Issues and dramas.

 

Its like the chicks who like "bad boys". They like a guy who they cant control because it gives them a challenge to "tame" them.

They will fight and argue and nag (enjoying the process) to try and gain control of the relationship, If they dont get control more often then not the relationship will last A LONG TIME. It will be a messy one but it will last.

 

The other side is chicks who do end up wearing the pants in the relationship, they will bitch and moan until they are the boss and more often then not they will end up getting bored with the guy and dump him eventually for being the bitch they turned him into.

 

Chicks are cray man, they think very different to guys. Dont try to break up this relationship these 2 have. Support her if she asks for help but you actually dont know whats going through her mind. She probably likes the relationship more then you know

 

There is far more truth in the saying "treat em mean keep em keen" then i ever thought there was when i first heard it.

Edited by xnatex

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Chicks are mostly crazy, some like (altho they wont admit it) being in these types of relationships. Ive seen girls go from 1 relationship to the next all with the same type of guys. With the same Issues and dramas.

 

Its like the chicks who like "bad boys". They like a guy who they cant control because it gives them a challenge to "tame" them.

They will fight and argue and nag (enjoying the process) to try and gain control of the relationship, If they dont get control more often then not the relationship will last A LONG TIME. It will be a messy one but it will last.

 

The other side is chicks who do end up wearing the pants in the relationship, they will bitch and moan until they are the boss and more often then not they will end up getting bored with the guy and dump him eventually for being the bitch they turned him into.

 

Chicks are cray man, they think very different to guys. Dont try to break up this relationship these 2 have. Support her if she asks for help but you actually dont know whats going through her mind. She probably likes the relationship more then you know

 

There is far more truth in the saying "treat em mean keep em keen" then i ever thought there was when i first heard it.

There's truth in that, but then those are all examples of DISFUNCTION (or more likely, immaturity and insecurity which can be 'grown out of' )and, like the issues with the chick in the OP, should be healed rather than tolerated. There are always reasons for people's behaviours, and if the behaviours are destructive or controlling then you're better served getting to then dealing with the causes. Then not too many people who can do years of whoring and drugs and not have LOT of trauma to deal with. Perhaps it goes back even longer than that. So while I'd agree with you in that insecure people need to 'fix' and 'control' everything, in this particular case the issues are probably a lot deeper and require more than just time for her to grow up a bit. :)

Edited by Director

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+1 to Director.

 

You know what the thing is about thinking differently? Imagine how much it pisses off the ladies, some of the things guys think are acceptable?

 

All the things you are talking about xnatex, are problems with people. They might manifest differently, but it's not hard to see a guy being a piece of shit controlling dickhead, then dumping his partner when he's finally destroyed them.

 

Honestly, I think guys bitch about small things in relationships too. There's probably more substance to men's thin skins as a cause of women being labelled "bitches", than there is genuinely malicious partners.

 

Personally, I think it comes down to communication. If your partner wants to spend time together, and you want to go to the football/spend time with mates, believe me, letting her/him know in advance you have plans, makes all the difference. It's the difference between "I've organised to do something fun too" and "OMG, I thought we were going to hang out, but you are going to be away with your mates for the next4+ hours".

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Treat em mean keep em keen works for more chicks then not. Some deny it but they dont know what they want either. Most chicks secretly want an alpha male, even if they say they dont. Like how many women like being slapped and slightly choked during sex, i personally think its weird and im not into it. But LOTS of chicks are, Its strange and i dont get it. But its very real that a large amount of women like being dominated. I remember this one really nice girl, shy, didnt party hard, wanted sex so violent i had to get rid of her cuz it was too intense and i didnt enjoy it.

 

Nice guys finish last. (i did the nice guy approach for most of my young adult life because thats natural and normal to me, when i started playing games the difference in the sheer amount of women that showed more interest changed my life. It is very draining tho playing relationship games and its not sustainable for me. Thats why im going to stay single, chicks are too crazy)

Edited by xnatex

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Like how many women like being slapped and slightly choked during sex, i personally think its weird and im not into it. But LOTS of chicks are, Its strange and i dont get it. But its very real that a large amount of women like being dominated.

 

I'm yet to be with anyone who doesn't. And a couple have WAY more dominant personalities daily than i do, lol

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Absolutely. It's a proven fact and has been known for many, many years:

 

Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?"

 

The women said, "Yes."

 

He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

Source - http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/048-sbt.php

 

 

But worry not, suffering menfolk, for God brings great justice!

 

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 456

The Prophet said, "I looked into Paradise and found that the majority of its dwellers were the poor people, and I looked into the (Hell) Fire and found that the majority of its dwellers were women."

Source - http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/076-sbt.php

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i think i_am might be taking the piss

 

and maybe my experiences aren't typical, but i haven't discovered any women who requested or desired slapping or choking during physical encounters, although one enjoyed being bitten on the belly a bit

 

most preferred a sound licking over a conventional beating

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