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DVD vs Bluray

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theres no question that film is optionally far superior to 4K in resolution, colour depth, AND dynamic range.

 

 

Yep, it has the option but in reality, is often not as good as it could be.

 

There is something pleasing about analog decay, whether in aging of the film stock, or simply progressive degradation from printing, use and projection. But since the majority of films ijn recent times have been digitally mastered, they went into a computer editing suite very early in their migration from studio stage to home screen, the analog magic all got quantised, and pixelated a long time ago.

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yeah, it gets very complicated when you consider the whole chain, and all the artistic and technical choices available along the way.

 

with film in general though, if we assume the goal is "fidelity" then there is still a rather huge amount of latitude available for dodging or burning to correct or enhance over/underexposed areas of a frame, and some amount of cropping and resizing that can be performed with negligible loss of quality BEFORE transfer to a digital format for intermediate processing — to extents that in either case would quickly overtax the raw information density of a 4K camera sensor. but then it can become a question of whether or not the option to utilise these qualities is part of the workflow of individual directors and DOPs right from the beginning.

 

to me, 4K is to video what the CD is to audio. certainly if you focus on recording formats versus release formats. for a time, 44.1Khz/16bit audio, whilst pretty damn good, was prematurely hailed as some kind of final answer. and whilst its true that with appropriate understanding of the technical limitations you can absolutely record at CD quality and produce a final mix better than CD quality, it is not good enough. the same is true of 4K. hell, with certain severely constrained conditions you could even record everything at 1080P (let alone 4K) and after post processing still produce a final master whose full quality could only be appreciated at 4K or above. but 4K as a recording format is not good enough.

Edited by @~thehung

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I hate that every time I buy a bluray to play on my PC (not very often), it seems next to impossible to play for free.

Please explain, please :) ... is it a windows thing ?

 

I have watched the odd DVD on our pc player, but I do prefer the bigger tv screen for serious movie watching.

We have bought both and played on the PS3 and 4, which honestly I prefer. Just lately we've not bothered quite so

much to buy the BR.

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I hate that every time I buy a bluray to play on my PC (not very often), it seems next to impossible to play for free.

Please explain, please :) ... is it a windows thing ?

 

I have watched the odd DVD on our pc player, but I do prefer the bigger tv screen for serious movie watching.

We have bought both and played on the PS3 and 4, which honestly I prefer. Just lately we've not bothered quite so

much to buy the BR.

 

 

I dunno, it's probably something to do with licensing and DRM. DVD's are easy to play in Windows, any player will generally play them. But Blurays are different. Your regular Windows players won't play them. You have to (usually to my knowledge) buy software players that will play them (like power dvd or something).

 

Playing on consoles and dedicated BR players is fine though, which is what I ended up doing the last couple times.

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I hate that every time I buy a bluray to play on my PC (not very often), it seems next to impossible to play for free.

Please explain, please :) ... is it a windows thing ?

 

I have watched the odd DVD on our pc player, but I do prefer the bigger tv screen for serious movie watching.

We have bought both and played on the PS3 and 4, which honestly I prefer. Just lately we've not bothered quite so

much to buy the BR.

 

 

I dunno, it's probably something to do with licensing and DRM. DVD's are easy to play in Windows, any player will generally play them. But Blurays are different. Your regular Windows players won't play them. You have to (usually to my knowledge) buy software players that will play them (like power dvd or something).

 

Playing on consoles and dedicated BR players is fine though, which is what I ended up doing the last couple times.

 

 

Yep its a DRM thing.

 

AnyDVDhd is actually a VERY valid investment.

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I hate that every time I buy a bluray to play on my PC (not very often), it seems next to impossible to play for free.

Please explain, please :) ... is it a windows thing ?

 

I have watched the odd DVD on our pc player, but I do prefer the bigger tv screen for serious movie watching.

We have bought both and played on the PS3 and 4, which honestly I prefer. Just lately we've not bothered quite so

much to buy the BR.

 

 

I dunno, it's probably something to do with licensing and DRM. DVD's are easy to play in Windows, any player will generally play them. But Blurays are different. Your regular Windows players won't play them. You have to (usually to my knowledge) buy software players that will play them (like power dvd or something).

 

Playing on consoles and dedicated BR players is fine though, which is what I ended up doing the last couple times.

 

 

Yep its a DRM thing.

 

AnyDVDhd is actually a VERY valid investment.

 

Oh right, thanks to you both. Seems nobody gives a fuck whether you might have suspect uses for DVDs then :P

Edited by eveln

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I hate that every time I buy a bluray to play on my PC (not very often), it seems next to impossible to play for free.

Please explain, please :) ... is it a windows thing ?

 

I have watched the odd DVD on our pc player, but I do prefer the bigger tv screen for serious movie watching.

We have bought both and played on the PS3 and 4, which honestly I prefer. Just lately we've not bothered quite so

much to buy the BR.

 

 

I dunno, it's probably something to do with licensing and DRM. DVD's are easy to play in Windows, any player will generally play them. But Blurays are different. Your regular Windows players won't play them. You have to (usually to my knowledge) buy software players that will play them (like power dvd or something).

 

Playing on consoles and dedicated BR players is fine though, which is what I ended up doing the last couple times.

 

 

Yep its a DRM thing.

 

AnyDVDhd is actually a VERY valid investment.

 

Oh right, thanks to you both. Seems nobody gives a fuck whether you might have suspect uses for DVDs then :P

 

 

 

Oh, not at all.

 

DVDs had the same issues until the decoding codes got well distributed and integrated into VLC player.

 

VLC player can do BluRays too, for free, its just that 'new' movies keep getting 'online updates' to their encryption codes.

'we' (the internet) keep breaking them very quickly, but it means blockbuster releases cant be played for a few months till the next application patch release.

 

Tools like AnyDVD strip that protection away, and get updated codes a lot faster thanks to the community, meaning that 3rd party programs can see the BD\DVD encoding free, and 'just work'.

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With DVDs the entire encrpytion algorithm was cracked and since it's fixed in stone and receives no updates to program or keys, that's that. Cracked, the only way to repair it would render virtually all current set-top players useless.

 

Bluray is somewhat different in that there's multiple layers of DRM and it's enforced at both media and device to device level. The main method of gaining access to movies was/is(?) exploiting weakly protected players. WinDVD supposedly being one specific target. The reality is, any software player or decrpyter would be weak by the fact you could use it to reverse-engineer a given protection system.

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I hate this region system on DVD and blu-rays. It's only there to stop people buying disc from one region and playing in another region.

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Anyone remember the old Video discs about the size of a LP and played on special player. And it was hooked up to a Stereo System. Just wonder if they had copyright systems in place.

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The LD system had composite recordings of each frame, played back in realtime. In theory they probably could have used the same Macrovision type protection as video recorders, ie play a variable luma level during VBlank which screws with the auto gain on most machines making recordings turn out poor quality.

 

The reality though, LD never gained much market penetration so copying probably wasn't much of a problem.

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LaserDisc is still the best way to watch Star Wars Ep4, AFAIK.

 

I'm partial to a computer screen, but a TV will also work fine :P

 

I'm tried watching the disk, just didnt do it for me.

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but 4K as a recording format is not good enough.

I thought they'd moved to 8k cameras a while ago?

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oh yes. just saying, with 4K recording, much like with CD quality recording we have seen a distinct period of premature infatuation.

 

 

my impression is the very high end studios moved to 4K and beyond fairly quickly — as is the wont of those with the dosh — but there has been a long trickle down effect from the watershed moment when 4K started causing celluloid stalwarts and large numbers of fence sitters to jump ship to digital.

 

there are filmmakers like Tarantino who, for reasons that will ultimately boil down to being at least partly romantic rather than purely technical, will never forsake the magic of film. then there are those who were always going to lose their shit forever at their first sight of extremely high digital quality (4K). and then there are those who will refuse to definitively hand the crown to digital until analogue is truly dead.

 

 

i cant comment on whatever is at the bleeding edge of video right now. but i very much doubt its there yet, because ...history and ...science :P

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And that trend will continue.

 

We've had FLAC and ALAC for ages, but MP3 continues to dominate.

We had DVDA for a long time, but CD's continued to dominate.

We had 720p for a long time, but I'd almost wager it never overtook 'SD' in popularity.

Finally when 1080p came out, it finally became popular, and I'd say is the most common 'wanted' format.

 

There's tens of other examples too. But lets be realistic here, for a LOT of people, 1080p is 'enough', its cheap, its here now, and as internet continues to be the main delivery of media, its 'compressible' enough to send over the wire.

 

4k will be the Betamax of VHS TV formats. The Laserdisc of VCD's.

Lots will buy it, lots will love it, and it'll be clearly better.

But in the end, 1080p is cheaper, more available (even into the future, thanks to 'online delivery', regardless of disks quality) and 'everyone has it' already.

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well yeah, as a release format, 4K is certainly more than enough right now. and stupidly too much in most cases at the moment.

 

 

quite apart from the short term relative scarcity of content, the only way to get the benefit of 4K viewing is to be MUCH closer to the screen than normal lounge rooms allow.

 

yes, if i could afford it, i would love to have 4 pixels for every pixel on my 1080P monitor which is noticeably blocky at 30cm-50cm away. but the benefits would all but disappear beyond 1m.

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4k will be the Betamax of VHS TV formats. The Laserdisc of VCD's.

I disagree, "going 4K" isn't buying in to an ecosystem in the same way as tape formats or disc sizes.

 

We're already at a point where you can get a 4K panel at a mid-range price point, it won't be long until 1080p disappears from all but the bargain basement "no name" market segment, like 720p/768p panels are today.

 

It was never going to happen overnight, it was always going to happen slowly by attrition. Nearly nobody would "upgrade" their working 1080p screen for 4K today, but they're entirely likely to replace a dying 1080p screen with a 4K of equivalent size. If not right now, then definitely in the next few years.

 

The availability/unavailability of 4K content is nearly moot, the screens will be there, and Internet content will be streamed as best the whole setup can support.

Edited by SquallStrife
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In the discussion of the displays? I agree. They're useful 'no matter what'.

 

It's just about the content; hence the 'beta max of vhs and the laserdisc of VCD'

I wasn't condemning early 'cinema projectors' or those fancy '100hz CRTs'

Edited by Master_Scythe

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It's the same story though.

 

It won't be the case that people will "choose to go 4K", it'll just filter through as soon as the rest of your system (including Internet connection) can support it.

 

Cf. Betamax and LD, where you had to buy format-specific equipment to take advantage.

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In Australia, I hope I live long enough to see 4k streaming.

Netflix's 4K is specced to consume 7GB per hour, approx 15Mbps.

 

Doable on all but the worst ADSL2+.

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You can't use "Betamax of..." when calling something shit.

 

Beta lost the tape wars but was capable of better video quality. They lost due to lower support, worse marketing and because they couldn't use as long tape as VHS.

TV stations were still using Betamax cameras to cover News stories until not long ago. If you saw a 4:3 story filmed after digital TV came along, chances are it was on Beta or a derivative.

 

Note also there was "Super VHS" but it was largely ignored.

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