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Remember the outrage when they made the Yellow Wiggle a woman?

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Remember the outrage when they made the Yellow Wiggle a woman?

 

No? (No kids.)

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So, not liking the Doctor becoming female makes you a woman-hater?

 

More appeasement bullshit, this could go the way of Ghostbusters.

 

What was wrong with Ghostbusters apart from a fairly average script? The actors were good and the effects were okay.

 

I don't get the "appeasement" line, honestly. I grew up with Dr Who, The Goodies & Monkey & I have no problem with character's sex being altered; Tripitaka was played by a woman after all.

 

It's just a movie & just a TV show...nothing to get whatever you choose to wear as undies (if indeed you even do) in a twist.

 

People like it or don't, watch it or don't, and it's not as if we're starved for alternative content these days.

Edited by seehund
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So, not liking the Doctor becoming female makes you a woman-hater?

 

More appeasement bullshit, this could go the way of Ghostbusters.

 

What was wrong with Ghostbusters apart from a fairly average script? The actors were good and the effects were okay.

I don't get the "appeasement" line, honestly. I grew up with Dr Who, The Goodies & Monkey & I have no problem with character's sex being altered; Tripitaka was played by a woman after all.

It's just a movie & just a TV show...nothing to get whatever you choose to wear as undies (if indeed you even do) in a twist.

People like it or don't, watch it or don't, and it's not as if we're starved for alternative content these days.

 

I'm sure this is ALSO a stereotype, but meh, politically incorrect me if you must.....

 

But the whole 'Ghostbusters' style of comedy was based around what, stereotypically, only men can get away with, attacking and belittling each other to encourage brilliance in impossible odds.

The stereotypes make that sort of comedy "Bitchy" instead of "giving a mate a hard time".

 

I mean, sure, I know a lot of women who I can give a hard time and have a laugh with, but it's not the social norm to expect from a female character, or, IMO, even a woman in real life.

Yeah its sexist, but it's out of compassion (built on life experience) not hate.

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Ghostbusters was a commercial and critical failure.

An attempted money-grab using diversity targetting in a reboot to appeal to the so-called progressive modern audience.

Then again, Ghostbusters II was also a turd of a movie so it's not like they were breaking something that wasn't already that way.

 

As for Dr Who, I'm not really a fan so if the show crashes it won't affect me in the way that the likes of Enterprise and the Star Trek reboot has.

It's bullshit bandwagonning. Hollywood has been doing it for about 10 years now and producing rubbish for the sake of hitting diversity targets.

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-17/doctor-who-jodie-whittaker-named-first-female-doctor/8713964

The next Doctor to be Jodie Whittaker. Loathe or like the idea, she's not a bad actress. Whether she'll be good in the role of Doctor * shrugs*

Ye just reading a thread on another forum about this. Jeez talk about a bunch of whiny misogynistic dickheads.

 

You'd think they'd wait to be " whiny misogynistic dickheads " till after an episode or two has been shown. She's proven she can act an tbh I can see her having a go at this role, but it all depends on the rest of the cast and crew and of course, the writing. If the others are ambivalent to her presence there the show will be a flop.

Edited by eveln
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So for the show to succeed, they need to acknowledge her greatness?

 

Really, if they wanted a show with a female time travelling troubleshooting eccentric, then they should have just created one from scratch and let the thing live or die on it's own merits.

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She just needs to start offerin everyone jelly babies, and we'll all love her. ;)

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I don't recall a bunch of people whining that the Master was now a Mistress*. Oh no. The logic that groundwork laid has come to fruition. The sky is falling! The show will never be good ever again!

 

 

*I'd like to consider it a sign of my friends that they didn't bitch about that, or, now, this.

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So for the show to succeed, they need to acknowledge her greatness?

 

Really, if they wanted a show with a female time travelling troubleshooting eccentric, then they should have just created one from scratch and let the thing live or die on it's own merits.

 

River Song?

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So for the show to succeed, they need to acknowledge her greatness?

 

Really, if they wanted a show with a female time travelling troubleshooting eccentric, then they should have just created one from scratch and let the thing live or die on it's own merits.

Why acknowledge a greatness that is not proven ? That's why I say wait until at least an episode or two is shown before casting aspersions. IMO, if the cast and crew don't gel the show won't either. << Time will tell. As with Ghost Busters, if the aim is purely financial and not about creativity and story then it will flop . The regeneration makes a gender change possible :)

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So for the show to succeed, they need to acknowledge her greatness?

 

Really, if they wanted a show with a female time travelling troubleshooting eccentric, then they should have just created one from scratch and let the thing live or die on it's own merits.

Why acknowledge a greatness that is not proven ? That's why I say wait until at least an episode or two is shown before casting aspersions. IMO, if the cast and crew don't gel the show won't either. << Time will tell. As with Ghost Busters, if the aim is purely financial and not about creativity and story then it will flop . The regeneration makes a gender change possible :)

 

 

One of the best doctors had the shortest run, and the worst doctor (although possibly best actor) had the longest run;

It's all down to reception.

 

 

Because I just opened a can of Daleks there; I'll explain.

 

Eckleston felt like a man running from his past. Someone who had betrayed himself, seen a war, killed millions... resulting in a desire to do good, a 'who cares' attitude toward himself, but not others, he felt very real.

 

Tennant, is an AMAZING actor, and if the show hadn't touched his "Horrible past" yet, he'd have been fine, and probably the best. But my mind is always on 'analytical mode'. Not only do happy people act angry, poorly (the opposite of Capaldi, who's very god at doing eccentric happy, because he does Angry, naturally), but nothing in his attitude spoke to his past.

He was 'happy' most of the time. He cared about himself a little more than he used to (and no reason why), nothing to me said "hardened soldier" anymore.

GREAT actor, great doctor, HORRIBLE character fit into the story arc.

 

Matt Smith got away with 'happy' because he was eccentric happy, the 'in denial', 'running from your past' type of happy that I use myself for escapism from time to time.

 

Tennant though? Just spent too much time 'smelling the flowers', he seemed to care not just about life, but about HIS life, and from 'war torn' to 'simple life' without a catalyst, was just too much..

Not to mention that entire season where the Tardis CONTINUOUSLY showed up late (9/10 dead, for example, when that blob monster was absorbing kids, and his idea to fix it was to make the cement tile sentient).

 

If course, everyones going to have an opinion, and I know mine is unpopular :P

Edited by Master_Scythe
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So for the show to succeed, they need to acknowledge her greatness?

 

Really, if they wanted a show with a female time travelling troubleshooting eccentric, then they should have just created one from scratch and let the thing live or die on it's own merits.

Why acknowledge a greatness that is not proven ? That's why I say wait until at least an episode or two is shown before casting aspersions. IMO, if the cast and crew don't gel the show won't either. << Time will tell. As with Ghost Busters, if the aim is purely financial and not about creativity and story then it will flop . The regeneration makes a gender change possible :)

 

 

One of the best doctors had the shortest run, and the worst doctor (although possibly best actor) had the longest run;

It's all down to reception.

 

 

Because I just opened a can of Daleks there; I'll explain.

 

Eckleston felt like a man running from his past. Someone who had betrayed himself, seen a war, killed millions... resulting in a desire to do good, a 'who cares' attitude toward himself, but not others, he felt very real.

 

Tennant, is an AMAZING actor, and if the show hadn't touched his "Horrible past" yet, he'd have been fine, and probably the best. But my mind is always on 'analytical mode'. Not only do happy people act angry, poorly (the opposite of Capaldi, who's very god at doing eccentric happy, because he does Angry, naturally), but nothing in his attitude spoke to his past.

He was 'happy' most of the time. He cared about himself a little more than he used to (and no reason why), nothing to me said "hardened soldier" anymore.

GREAT actor, great doctor, HORRIBLE character fit into the story arc.

 

Matt Smith got away with 'happy' because he was eccentric happy, the 'in denial', 'running from your past' type of happy that I use myself for escapism from time to time.

 

Tennant though? Just spent too much time 'smelling the flowers', he seemed to care not just about life, but about HIS life, and from 'war torn' to 'simple life' without a catalyst, was just too much..

Not to mention that entire season where the Tardis CONTINUOUSLY showed up late (9/10 dead, for example, when that blob monster was absorbing kids, and his idea to fix it was to make the cement tile sentient).

 

If course, everyones going to have an opinion, and I know mine is unpopular :P

 

The thing is M_S, whatever your thoughts on the various Doctors, the episodes continued to be made with a story and creativity that was loathed or loved by all who watched.

If a woman is now being put in as the 13th Doc. cos nobody has a better idea, then imo, it's doomed to flop.

From your views on the previous Docs, the writers and producers managed to make quite individual characters and stories to go with them and I don't see why they can't continue with the 13th regeneration. To do that, all the peoples involved need to be open to the idea.

 

edit: Of course if the femme Doctor doesn't take she will have a short run .

Edited by eveln

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Correct, nothing I implied said otherwise :)

The ONLY issue will be the attitude.

IMO it'll entirely hang on the introduction...... When we first meet River Song, she's a bad ass, she knowsn 'too much' (mysterious), and she's a tiny bit Butch......

This leads you right away into an air of respect, based purely on authority. (as opposed to a normal level of respect for a fellow person; it was instantly more than that) This worked.

 

If they introduce the new doctor as being 'whimsical' like the other doctors, she's going to come off as 'moody' when she gets mad (like Tennant came off as arrogant giving orders).

 

To be honest, the most interesting part of the 'change' is going to be how the Doctor reacts, they always have some shock to a regeneration, and the first female is coming from CAPALDI?!

I wish the writers luck and wait eagerly to see how they pull it off :)

Edited by Master_Scythe

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It should only really make a difference to Dr Who fans. She will either nail it or she wont, just like every other actor who played The Doctor. Of course the evaluation of her performance is subjective so you'll get a range of reasonable and unreasonable opinions. :)

 

I have high hopes because, 1) she's a proven product, and 2) there are other personnel changes behind the scenes that *may* improve the stories/direction.

 

I doubt very much that they chose a woman just because. It's logical - why limit the possible Doctors to only half the population? That's dumb.

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I doubt very much that they chose a woman just because. It's logical - why limit the possible Doctors to only half the population? That's dumb.

 

The doctors regeneration has always been part choice. It's subconscious, but every regeneration so far has had a 'trigger' something that made them go from X to Y.

It's highlighted best in the change to Capaldi when he's explaining his new appearance, and asking why this face, then he's happy to be scottish, he can get mad now.

Basically, the subtext is that hes spent so much time being a loon as Smith, thatit's time to get serious (as Capaldi).

 

It's possible they ignore the subtext of the regeration this time, not every whovian has noticed the 'triggers' for the doctors next regen, but if they do follow the last few methods, I'll be curious what makes Capaldi want to be a chick.

 

It's just a shame this change has come at a time when Transgender favoring, and (incorrectly understood) feminism is at an all time high........

Edited by Master_Scythe

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I doubt very much that they chose a woman just because. It's logical - why limit the possible Doctors to only half the population? That's dumb.

The doctors regeneration has always been part choice. It's subconscious, but every regeneration so far has had a 'trigger' something that made them go from X to Y.

It's highlighted best in the change to Capaldi when he's explaining his new appearance, and asking why this face, then he's happy to be scottish, he can get mad now.

Basically, the subtext is that hes spent so much time being a loon as Smith, thatit's time to get serious (as Capaldi).

 

That's part of the story, sure, but that doesn't necessarily drive the change to a female Doctor. I could just as validly argue that based on their want to explore more from a character PoV they decided on a female Doctor. Then, they start to write the triggers into the story.

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So what was the impetus for the Master to change into Missy, with both a change of sex and personality?

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So what was the impetus for the Master to change into Missy, with both a change of sex and personality?

 

That's well debated; and there are a lot of opinions out there.

 

Some argue that women are naturally more controlling\persuasive in the 'modern world'.

Some consider it to be a move to gain more trust, since he tried the "Successful man, in charge" route, and ultimately failed, turn it on it's head.

 

Me? I sort of agree with the second one, but I've always thought there was more.

 

While I agree it will be partly out of shame, knowing that "all powerful male in charge" didn't work, I also think it's about hiding more effectively (while timelords can spot each other, its not always instant, Baby River + Doctor, for example).

But most of all, I've felt it was about 'swinging wild' and seeing what sticks.

The Master was insane, he did everything he knows how to do to seize power, and for the first time he wanted to try adding some 'stealth' to it, he has manipulation down pat, but its not enough. He wants another route for power.

 

But the whole master thing breaks a lot of DrWho lore anyway. I mean, using his lifeforce (and therefore a few hundred regeneration's or something) to 'fly' around, or jump superhuman distances? Why doesn't the Doctor do that in instances when he's expecting to be wiped out in a way that regeneration shouldn't be possible? Give up 10 'lives' so that you can keep your other 90?

I mean, that, and the first season of Tennant I wish I could forget. I Loathed 'The Tardis' for SO LONG after that season, as she kept arriving late and ruining peoples lives with poor timing.

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But the whole master thing breaks a lot of DrWho lore anyway.

 

they are always breaking the past

'the keeper of Traken' was supposed to be The Masters last regeneration

 

dont forget The Valeyard is a future version of the doctor

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40+ years of watching Dr Who this will be a testing time for me with the next Dr,how will she stack up against all my past Dr's?will she be worthy to be added to my dvd collection,of every episode on dvd?mmmm only time will tell..

 

So is this the last regeneration if in keeping with the movie from 1996??which states there will be 13 Dr,s..in theory we have had more tht 13 Dr,s to date,so i wonder.

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But the Time Lords basically reset his regeneration clock, so he can just keep regenerating.

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But the Time Lords basically reset his regeneration clock, so he can just keep regenerating.

 

Which means he can fly and shoot lasers using his hands, by blasting regen energy :D

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