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fredzfrog

Woo! Star trek Discovery! (spoilers, probably)

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This bloke gives a good appraisal. I can't help but agree with so much of what he doesn't like about it.

Believe I mentioned that a few days ago (#27?) I got the impression other peeps here had other opinions.

 

that video is 90% petty snark with a liberal dash of nutjob.

 

i do in fact note a thread of modern identity politics undercurrent in the subtext of this show and do find it most unwelcome for its apparent clunkiness if nothing else, but thats where it ends — at the level of a tentative hypothesis of little import. its no cause, at least after two episodes, for torch waving hysteria.

 

but apparently, ST:D is the victim of a "SJW takeover". yeah, okay.

 

the biggest linchpin of this guy's 'analysis' centres on the claim that the 'Federation is attempting to expand into Klingon space', which is a complete misreading of the situation. its actually the diametric opposite. but hey, why let the facts get in the way of obsessive projections?

 

this guy's focus on reading SJW-driven allegories for real world issues into the writing and casting of this show borders on the pathological. not only does he indicate he is anti-Black Lives Matter without any qualifying nuance, as if he is assured he is addressing an audience that requires none, he proceeds to offer up gems like these:

 

the show is "full blown anti-white, and i'm really not exaggerating"

 

"it could be argued that Discovery is promoting white genocide"

 

FFS, c'mon

 

you guys are seriously hitching your wagons to this demented little gobshite?

 

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I'm not committing one way or the other as I've not caught up to what's aired so far.

But the reason I'm lagging is that I'm not exactly compelled to throw the next episode on. Sure, that guy is a bit over the top but the things he gets negative about are genuine issues.

 

Had a quick look on IMDB, the relative ratings of each series does line up somewhat with my feelings on them (though I'd put Voy about par with DS9). So far this gets a 7.3, lagging behind Ent (7.5), Voy (7.7), DS9 (7.9), TNG (8.6) TOS (8.4)

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Give it a chance, you might like it. Four episodes in and I'm enjoying it (more than any other American show at the moment). I'm surprised by the amount of negative hype surrounding this show - it's almost like people are actively willing themselves to dislike it.

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I loved hearing about the former-gay person complaining that they needed to include something in the show about how evil the gay lifestyle is and it was worth converting away from.

 

Not sure they understand what TV inclusivity is.

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you guys are seriously hitching your wagons to this demented little gobshite?

 

I'm not "hitching" to anything. I just thought it was an interting take, and wanted to see what others thought.

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fair enough. its just earlier you said videos with titles like that gave you hope for the future. wasnt sure if you'd even seen the vid, or what you meant. sarcasm? delight that discerning fans of Star Trek (proper) must be alive and well?

 

i searched it out but bailed on it — coz spoilers. where it seemed to be going sounded plausible enough though *sigh*, but i figured if ST:D is in fact demon spawn of the regressive left at least it will be fun to shit on it. turns out its not nearly that bad (so far...). i guess that vid just riled me up because i am growing increasingly tired of dissenting voices purporting to cut through all the bullshit who start off making sense but ultimately reveal themselves corrupt in one way or another.

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its just earlier you said videos with titles like that gave you hope for the future. wasnt sure if you'd even seen the vid, or what you meant. sarcasm?

The "hope" was inspired by the "truly godawful" title, and was indeed sarcasm - as indicated by the " ;p " emoticon.

 

As to the "start off making sense" comment... I've determined that to be the usual case in almost every part of human existence except the very small scale (ie: personal - and sometimes even then), and Science - where people make mistakes, but don't usually intentionally lie. Misrepresentation is more common than honesty. I hate that enough to go tothe Dark Side. ;p

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This bloke gives a good appraisal. I can't help but agree with so much of what he doesn't like about it.

[ one guys pretty intense take on ST:D]

The only way I'll get to see this is if it comes to Stan ;) ... lol

I could see the Klingons evolving ( in looks ) from this (ST:D) to their future evolutions down the various paths of ST, so the fact of their look here did not concern me.

 

 

 

...

this guy's focus on reading SJW-driven allegories for real world issues into the writing and casting of this show borders on the pathological. not only does he indicate he is anti-Black Lives Matter without any qualifying nuance, as if he is assured he is addressing an audience that requires none, he proceeds to offer up gems like these:

 

the show is "full blown anti-white, and i'm really not exaggerating"

 

"it could be argued that Discovery is promoting white genocide"

...

 

It seems there is evidence of the producers' ,writers' etc. stance against Trump and his alleged / assumed White Supremacists allegiance. I think the guy in the vid was trying to show the difference WRT to the Dem. Pres. Obama and his allegiance to BLM. So, I think it's a little wrong to say he ( the vid guy ) indicated he is anti anything much other than maybe ST:D. ;)

... just sayin'

 

... but also now that I've watched that twenty minute critique I am quite curious to view this series now too ... oh well maybe another go at Netflix, maybe.

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It seems there is evidence of the producers' ,writers' etc. stance against Trump and his alleged / assumed White Supremacists allegiance. I think the guy in the vid was trying to show the difference WRT to the Dem. Pres. Obama and his allegiance to BLM. So, I think it's a little wrong to say he ( the vid guy ) indicated he is anti anything much other than maybe ST:D. ;)

... just sayin'

 

... but also now that I've watched that twenty minute critique I am quite curious to view this series now too ... oh well maybe another go at Netflix, maybe.

 

true. he did not directly state an anti-BLM position. he did, however, draw a false equivalence between White Nationalist groups and Black Lives Matter, as if they are alternate sides of the same coin — an affront to BLM so egregious and deceitful that not even many who are highly critical of BLM wouldnt shirk from. so it was an easy inference to make.

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It seems there is evidence of the producers' ,writers' etc. stance against Trump and his alleged / assumed White Supremacists allegiance. I think the guy in the vid was trying to show the difference WRT to the Dem. Pres. Obama and his allegiance to BLM. So, I think it's a little wrong to say he ( the vid guy ) indicated he is anti anything much other than maybe ST:D. ;)

... just sayin'

 

... but also now that I've watched that twenty minute critique I am quite curious to view this series now too ... oh well maybe another go at Netflix, maybe.

 

true. he did not directly state an anti-BLM position. he did, however, draw a false equivalence between White Nationalist groups and Black Lives Matter, as if they are alternate sides of the same coin — an affront to BLM so egregious and deceitful that not even many who are highly critical of BLM wouldnt shirk from. so it was an easy inference to make.

 

I didn't get that from his words. What I took was an inference that perhaps the Pres., whatever colour he was / is, should clearly be on the side of all those he was Pres. of, and not be a member of any one organisation ... do you see ? Obviously the vid guy did not like the implied inference of Trump being associated with WS, and, given his whole stance re the critique of ST:D, he's not a fan of SJWs either, so he chose to call to attention Obama's association with BLM ... imo

As to the underlined comment you make, all camps have their extremists, imo.

But anyway, I'm still going to see about viewing this latest or earliest generation of ST. :)

Edited by eveln

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he was saying it is unfair for Trump and the bulk of his voters to be tarred with the brush of his White Nationalist support. he attempted to rebuff the hypocrisy of the left in this matter by calling them out on never feeling the need to tar Obama with the brush of his BLM support. this point only works as intended if BLM are understood by his audience to be as categorically repugnant or undesirable as white nationalists are by common consensus. false equivalence.

white nationalism, at its most benign, is an extremist position that promotes fundamentally redefining the institutions of society around racial discrimination.

BLM on the other hand, although it has morphed over time and does contain some problematic radical elements, is very much what it says on the box -- a movement of people who want to rid the judiciary and law enforcement of systemic racism and maybe have fewer innocent black youths shot by trigger happy cops. equivalent? not even close.

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"he was saying it is unfair for Trump and the bulk of his voters to be tarred with the brush of his White Nationalist support." ..

 

And to me it seemed he was supremely annoyed at even having to discuss Trump and politics generally when discussing the latest interpretation of a sci-fi fantasy movie.

 

 

"... he attempted to rebuff the hypocrisy of the left in this matter by calling them out on never feeling the need to tar Obama with the brush of his BLM support."...

 

Well I guess he figured why not ? From the critique I looked at, he felt it ludicrous of the producers and writers to be making their own political statements when discussing ST:D

Sure, all art is based on experience, but a good artist, imo, will let the observer determine the impact for their self . rather than spoon feed them so blatantly ... imo ;)

Edited by eveln

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yes, he is annoyed at political statements being boorishly injected into an escapist show. thats not in dispute. i am not taking issue with the wider context of his point, but how it was made — which included a mischaracterisation of BLM — in an effort to clarify an inference i made.

Edited by @~thehung

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yes, he is annoyed at political statements being boorishly injected into an escapist show. thats not in dispute. i am not taking issue with the wider context of his point, but how it was made — which included a mischaracterisation of BLM — by way of clarifying an inference i made.

 

 

yeah rightio. cos of this " gobshite " I am considering getting Netflix again ... only considering mind you :)

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heres the thing, suppose it is true that the isolationism of the Klingons is in fact a conscious nod to elements of contemporary America. nothing wrong with that in itself.

there is no reason such a device cant be used to explore the ramifications of this outlook at a galactic geopolitical level, without snidely casting aspersions on any one type of viewer. some 'isolationists' are racist assholes, while others are good people who simply believe in things like self-determination and charity beginning at home.

will the Klingons necessarily be comic book 'bad guys' or is the universe being created more morally complicated? i would like to give the writers the benefit of the doubt, and after two episodes see no reason not to. here's hoping.

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I'm a bit curious why, in the two part 'prologue' of the season, or rather the second ep,

 

 

the Klingon messianic leader dies with a hole in him from the phaser hit, rather than vaporising like Klingongs did in this week's ep

 

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" ...will the Klingons necessarily be comic book 'bad guys' or is the universe being created more morally complicated? i would like to give the writers the benefit of the doubt, and after two episodes see no reason not to. here's hoping."

 

What will it matter though ? ST:D is a prequel right ? ...given I think you've viewed lots of the sequels, you know what thee future holds :P


I'm a bit curious why, in the two part 'prologue' of the season, or rather the second ep,

the Klingon messianic leader dies with a hole in him from the phaser hit, rather than vaporising like Klingongs did in this week's ep

 

Lol, who knows ? but your post made me grin

Edited by eveln

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i am fuzzy on the timelines re: Klingons in original ST vs TNG etc and not sure what problems that would pose

 

i think it matters, in that if allegory is intended, it should be done with subtlety or not at all. and regardless of that, because moral complication is far more interesting than not and kind of demanded by viewers ever since the dawn of the new golden age of TV.

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Well, given that guy's video critique I'd say he felt the allegory was anything but subtle ... as to the rest of your comment, I agree. however if the producers of ST:D don't keep in mind what has already occurred in Discovery's future, they be looking for a short life.

 

Off topic : it seems prequels are the fad. I do know of one that's viewing now that imo, is bloody great. Already it shows the fine thread of connection to it's well known future... see the other thread tho ;)

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Have watched some of a few episodes of Discovery in the last few days. What I've seen of it I enjoyed. As to the subtitles for the Klingons, I approve :) I will in future try not to be distracted and actually sit and watch whole episodes.

 

edit: Also re that clip of @~thehung's Rybags with the guy having an SJW crisis about the show, I'm thinking maybe he didn't get past the first episode :P

 

edit 2 : Ooospie !

Edited by eveln

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Episode 9. Well... that wasn't quite the Klingon romance I was expecting, but... I did call it back on page 2!

 

 

[talking about episode 4]
The Klingons became a lot more interesting in this episode, too. I didn't much care for them before, but I'm somewhat intrigued now. Will we see a Klingon rom-com episode in future? I think I speak for everyone when I say, "I HOPE SO." How do passionate Klingons kiss with all that bone mass on their face? I can't wait to find out.

 

No more until next year.

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