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RenascentMisanthropy

Bitcoin trading.....

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For those mining or buying or trading crypto

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-Australia---specifically-bitcoin/

 

For folks just mining

 

Mining bitcoin

Where you are in the business of mining bitcoin, any income that you derive from the transfer of the mined bitcoin to a third party would be included in your assessable income. Any expenses incurred in respect to the mining activity would be allowed as a deduction. Losses you make from the mining activity may also be subject to the non-commercial loss provisions.

Bitcoin held by a taxpayer carrying on a business of mining and selling bitcoin, will be considered to be trading stock. You are required to bring to account any bitcoin on hand at the end of each income year.

GST is payable on the supply of bitcoin made in the course or furtherance of your bitcoin mining enterprise. Input tax credits may be available for acquisitions made in carrying on your bitcoin mining enterprise.

 

 

LOL, because THAT will work with a Crypto Currency, ROFL.

 

The only reason this would work would be if someone is silly enough to try and take Crypto Into 'Real' Money, which is entirely NOT the point.

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Hey I didn't write those stupid laws LOL

 

Got like 0.002 ETH mined if they want to tax that ... hey (it's about $USD 2)

Edited by Jeruselem

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The only reason this would work would be if someone is silly enough to try and take Crypto Into 'Real' Money, which is entirely NOT the point.

If that's not the point, then what IS the point?

 

You can't buy stuff without turning your butts into real dollars at some point.

 

Whether you do that at Magic The Gathering Online eXchange, or your vendor does it through BitPay or similar, you're making a payment.

 

If you're burning through electricity and computer parts with no view to ever "spend" your butts, then why do it in the first place?

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The only reason this would work would be if someone is silly enough to try and take Crypto Into 'Real' Money, which is entirely NOT the point.

If that's not the point, then what IS the point?

You can't buy stuff without turning your butts into real dollars at some point.

Whether you do that at Magic The Gathering Online eXchange, or your vendor does it through BitPay or similar, you're making a payment.

If you're burning through electricity and computer parts with no view to ever "spend" your butts, then why do it in the first place?

 

I hate these terms because it lumps me in with a certain crowd i'd prefer not to be associated with; but its the correct term.... eugh...

 

FIAT currency is traceable, taxable, and all the other negative words suffixed with 'able you wish to think of.

If you trade me invisible bitcoins, and I send you my Sega Megadrive collection, all "they" know is that I just posted a box to someone.

 

buying goods (or services) is very different to changing it into FIAT currency.

 

Really, the banks are fucking genius agreeing to 'trade' in bitcoin.

Slowly but surely people will 'cash out' and the fact that their bank lets them, will mean the bank ends up with all the coins, and bye bye 'free trade', WE control all the bitcoins now.

 

Catch22 for them, is that 'we' can always make a NEW currency, but you never know which will boom, and you need a worldwide push like bitcoin had to have the same impact.

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FIAT currency is traceable, taxable, and all the other negative words suffixed with 'able you wish to think of.

If you trade me invisible bitcoins, and I send you my Sega Megadrive collection, all "they" know is that I just posted a box to someone.

This isn't new. It's called barter. Before buttcoins I might have offered you some of my SNES collection in exchange. Or to help fix your car. Or some of the mangoes from my orchard that I spend time tending to.

 

 

 

Consider: You mine buttcoins and trade buttcoins for a Ferrari, but then you fall on hard times and have to sell your Ferrari to pay your rates, water, and child support. This person reported no income but had a Ferrari to sell. Hello audit.

 

Hence, bitcoins are treated as non-liquid assets. No different to hoarding gold bricks.

 

"We" can make a new currency, but eventually you, or somebody, needs to liquidate it.

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They are "intangible" assets ... just like stock market assets (shares, ETFs, Bonds, Bills, CFDs, Securables, securitized assets), you can't hold them physically but they are assets.

Edited by Jeruselem

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Consider: You mine buttcoins and trade buttcoins for a Ferrari, but then you fall on hard times and have to sell your Ferrari to pay your rates, water, and child support. This person reported no income but had a Ferrari to sell. Hello audit.

 

 

 

Actually this is wrong, at least in my experience.

Nothing like that should flag an Audit, because selling personal possessions is not a taxable action.

When the ATO asks, you just list it as "selling personal assets".

 

We've been in this circumstance a lot, because my dad restores hotrods.

So there are tons of "Want this free rusted shell?" followed by "Thanks for the beer, Oh, have these old rims".

And since dad builds a lot of rat-rods, often 'car parts' are offcuts from the building supplies he uses.

So it's really not uncommon to see $0 become $60k+, You just declare "$60k, selling private assets" and that's done. Non taxable.

 

By your logic, (and I guess technically true) your definition of barter means that handing you cash is ALSO barter.

Trading one item for another. Be it AUD or BTC, if one is barter, so is the other.

Edited by Master_Scythe

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...and if obtaining shells and restoring them becomes more than a hobby, and flipping cars becomes a primary source of income, you now need to record-keep that flow of value.

 

Buying a case of beer to trade for a shell becomes a business expense, you get a GST credit for it. Putting in the work and selling it for a profit attracts business tax. Wages paid to yourself attract income tax.

 

To be legal, it's all accounted for.

 

Substituting beers and shells for butttcoins is immaterial.

 

Substituting dollars for buttcoins just makes your recordkeeping harder.

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It's ASIC that'll flag you first in most cases. The trick is, keep transactions under $10K.

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...and if obtaining shells and restoring them becomes more than a hobby, and flipping cars becomes a primary source of income, you now need to record-keep that flow of value.

 

Never has.

One car every 5 or so years is far from the primary income.

 

Just like 1 Ferrari in 1 lifetime would also be.

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...in which case it wouldn't have mattered if you'd used cash (in lieu of buttcoins) in the first place.

 

So I re-iterate, if the point of buttcoins is not simply as an alternative store of value, then what is the point?

 

Even if you personally only use them for barter, somewhere along the line, somebody is going to need to exchange them for fiat to pay tax. Without the ability to do that, they are pointless. You might as well just use cash.

 

People mining buttcoins are simply making a long-winded conversion of fiat to butts, vicariously through their power bill (or by stealing someone else's power).

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Mining in Australia isn't viable really due to our super duper higher power costs but in Chinese where there's cheap coal power and gignomous solar farms, it is.

Edited by Jeruselem

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very well edited together RADIOLAB podcast, discussing the birth of the cryptocurrency Zcash with its founder and the journalist who was riding along for the wacky paranoiac rituals enacted to establish trust

webpage: http://www.radiolab.org/story/ceremony/

stream the audio

download the mp3

---
The Ceremony


Last November, journalist Morgen Peck showed up at her friend Molly Webster's apartment in Brooklyn, told her to take her battery out of her phone, and began to tell her about The Ceremony, a moment last fall when a group of, well, let's just call them wizards, came together in an undisclosed location to launch a new currency. It's an undertaking that involves some of the most elaborate security and cryptography ever done (so we've been told). And math. Lots of math. It was all going great until, in the middle of it, something started to behave a little...strangely.

Reported by Molly Webster. Produced by Matt Kielty and Molly Webster. Denver Ceremony station recordings were created by media maker Nathaniel Kramer, with help from Daniel Cooper.

Guests: Morgen Peck, Peter Todd, Peter Van Valkenburgh and Zooko Wilcox

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hahahahaha... making the abc's 2c a day

www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-08/bureau-of-meteorology-staff-implicated-in-cryptocurrency-ring/9524208

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