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Master_Scythe

As a non social media user - Mansplaining

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my grammar is always well considered before i post

 

my typing is often crap, and punctuation and capitals reflect my personal idiom

 

i thought i had expressed myself very clearly

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I see no confusion. Clear as mud ... I see a lot of that just looking out my back door right now.

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Men can explain things to women just fine. I think, originally, the idea of 'mansplaining' was supposed to be linked with being patronised by having someone similarly qualified, or even less so, assuming they were more qualified to explain something simply because they were a man. Happened to me all the time when working in IT.
A problem I've seen is that, sometimes, people forget or don't quite understand how to apply a label (or stereotype, or generalisation). So things get misrepresented. I think that's where we might be now. It may have been useful, but now it's been overused. Now it just angers people, and that's useless.
I think anyone is capable of being an arrogant, ignorant, patronising arsehole when talking about an issue they feel more qualified in than their audience. There did used to be the idea that, in certain areas, women couldn't know as much as a man, or that women learned differently to a man so they had to be taught differently. People learn differently from one another, and it's not always gender based.
Of course, in response to these things, the stereotype of men not knowing certain issues has cropped up in the last century, and I also have the same response to that idea as well: certain traits are not gender based. Take the example of men not knowing anything about emotions. For centuries, men had to operate without feeling sentiment or emotion in a lot of areas. Emotions were seen as feminine, and therefor weak (fuck youuuuuuu for thinking that!), so men were taught, right up to my generation, not to express feelings properly or in a healthy manner. Which gave credence to the idea that women were "experts" in this field, and men "useless". Clearly this is absolute idiocy. In my lifetime I've observed a lot of humour revolving around this (movies, sitcoms, tv ads, etc), and to that I say, fuck off. Men weren't encouraged to feel, and they absolutely should be.
You cannot force (roughly) 50% of the human race to reject something that validates their experience as a human on this earth, and call it healthy or progressive.
See how that sentence applies to both genders, though? To me, it's a no brainer. Unforunately, we've become divided along gender lines and I think that's a natural progression from where we've come from. Women have had a tough run for centuries - men have had their own pressures to face, as well, so in acknowledging how far we've come with women's rights in no way paints a rosy, easy picture for men. I think we forget to do that sometimes. However, as things normalise and the pendulum swings and swings again, trying to achieve the middle ground, we've gone this way and that, this way and that, swinging with it. That's ok, that's normal, I'm pretty sure that's physics :-) What we need to make sure we don't do is keep fostering anger and hatred for the so-called "other side".
Men are not the enemy. Women are not the enemy. We all have shifting roles and lines to deal with right now, and it may take another 100 years to settle down.

 

A gut feeling (and this is where I could go from foot in mouth, to leg in mouth :P) is that, while heaven forbid males generalize or criticize females as a whole gender; us males (including the good ones) have copped it for many years now.
I think a lot of gender politics are stupid - that's a byproduct of growing up doing a lot of "boy" hobbies, working in a traditional "male" career and continuing to have a lot of "male" traits like the one you mentioned about researching things. A lot of gender stereotyping can go to hell as far as I'm concerned - it's never applied to me throughout my entire life and experience has shown me that a lot applies to both males and females equally and not exclusively, so fuck it :-)
Therefore, I don't think any or either gender should be copping anything unfairly or unduly, and it grieves me to see whenever it happens. Regardless of whether it's male or female.
All that said though, and this is a joke which probably won't be funny because I'm not John Safran, but I always have a little mental chuckle at points like this. I absolutely agree that there are areas that men are feeling targeted in, and that's unfair, and yes some of these things have been going on for, say, 50-100 years worth of human and social evolution. That's a long time, and it's too long. But how long do you think women have "copped it" for? :-D :-p

 

if I was sitting with a group of, say overweight friends (I'm a nerd, I have many :P), and we were all 'friendly teasing' each other about said weight, I'd think twice before ribbing any overweight females in the group.
You may be confusing gender stereotyping and politics with a different issue. Women are more likely to be adversely and severely affected by eating disorders, and you never know who is afflicted just by being in the same room with them. A lot of the time, women are feeling social pressure to be skinny and thin and waif-like, so giving them shit about being fat may be more of an issue. Men, by contrast, who suffer from eating disorders too, feel a lot of social pressures not to be thin (ergo, a fat joke isn't as likely to be as much of an issue) but to be muscle-bound. Example: calling men feminine, or girly ("you throw like a girl! Don't be such a pussy!") is, or used to be, a far greater social insult than calling him fat, yes/no?
Hence, the different social conditioning. I personally don't see it as women being more or too or overly sensitive, or political correctness gone mad, or "nobody" being able to say "anything" anymore - but being about different issues affecting different people, differently. Therefore, you may respond differently.
You're acting a bit like that picture with the people staring over the fence - you want to give all people the same height box, regardless of their height, to help them see over the fence. For a fairer, or more equanimous outcome, different height people need different height boxes. Some people really hate this idea. Some people really love it.
Really simple solution to 'mansplaining' so far as I can see: don't treat anyone, male or female, with contempt when you explain things to them, and don't assume you know more simply because you're male or female. You'd think that'd be simple enough :-)
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Posted (edited)

For a long time now, it's more about the personality / character rather than the gender. IMO, narrowmindedness is capable of festering in either gender .

" ...

I think anyone is capable of being an arrogant, ignorant, patronising arsehole when talking about an issue they feel more qualified in than their audience. ... "
QFT ^^
... but for each individual, it nearly always comes back to personal interaction that feeds their ( my ) view on almost anything. That is unless a person's job is research analysis.
Edited by eveln

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You may be confusing gender stereotyping and politics with a different issue. Women are more likely to be adversely and severely affected by eating disorders

 

Oh for sure they're only loosely related at best, but there's no denying there's quite a gender bias\stereotype about who can 'handle shit talking' and who can't.

 

That said, I think you'd be shocked in today's society.

I think the trend is too new to have government-level-stats on, but just from observing life, I'd say at least an equal amount of men are affected in this newer (18~25yo) generation.

Statistics scream the other way, I know, I have no proof (besides anecdotal) at all, but I honestly believe so.

 

From the male side of the fence;

when a guy has a weight issue, there's no 'boost' while in the middle ground, and the 'chubby' range is the common one...

That is to say;

when you're big, you're a big and powerful man.

When you're small, you're fit and agile.

When you're 'only' +10-20kg..... you're fat.

 

I mean, for a woman who's +10kg, (with even a pinch of genetic luck), they'll exclaim about their new booty, or their cup size increase, or being proud of being curvy.

Yes, Yes, it's all probably 'fake confidence' and I don't doubt many go home and hate their body.

However there's no arguing it's GOT TO BE at least slightly reassuring in public to be able to have someone go 'Yep, nice hips!' or some such, in those shallow-body-talk times late at night with mates.

 

In contrast, men don't gain in the middle ground.

You only ever hear a man try and deflect with self putdowns, referencing moobs, or beer guts or some such.

There's no social defense mechanism for chubby guys to deflect with.

You can't advertise a mans awesome love handles, like you can a womans wide hips.

Socially, one is MUCH more desirable.

 

Interestingly, In my wide social group, one of the 'loud, model-esque and popular' girls went on a rant about how she likes bigger (as in fatter) guys.

Suddenly we started learning that probably 8 or so of the usual 20 girls that hang out do too!

So, the truth is, there are clearly many women who like chubby guys (which, logically, I'm sure people know). But there's still a social stigma around admitting that.

In contrast, liking 'thick girls' is almost a requirement these days, lol.

 

It's not a competition.

I don't mean to try to make one genders issues greater than the other.

Just, it's something I've personally suffered through as a teen\young adult.

I like to talk about it when it comes up, because I think that whole 'X suffers more than Y' is old data.

Men typically aren't allowed to have issues. And if we do, we can't talk about them. It's just 'not allowed', so I think its skewed heavily.

And now that I hang out with a lot of people who are 5~12 years younger than myself, you see it more and more....

 

I can't be sure. It's all anecdotes, but it's just an interesting topic to discuss :)

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You may be confusing gender stereotyping and politics with a different issue. Women are more likely to be adversely and severely affected by eating disorders

 

...

It's not a competition.

I don't mean to try to make one genders issues greater than the other.

Just, it's something I've personally suffered through as a teen\young adult.

I like to talk about it when it comes up, because I think that whole 'X suffers more than Y' is old data.

Men typically aren't allowed to have issues. And if we do, we can't talk about them. It's just 'not allowed', so I think its skewed heavily.

And now that I hang out with a lot of people who are 5~12 years younger than myself, you see it more and more....

 

I can't be sure. It's all anecdotes, but it's just an interesting topic to discuss :)

 

Yep it is not a contest.

Of course blokes have eating disorders and also vanity based hang-ups that may not be seen as life threatening per say, but still have the potential to lessen the general well being..

They're just not supposed to want to worry about them quite so much is all .

 

I think you're a bit skewed with the thinking men are ' not allowed ' to talk of what is pissing them off about their self or their life. Men's Sheds came into being for pretty much this purpose. It's just a pity most

are seen to be offered to older guys as a rule. I think they be an awesome project and can only hope they eventually lure in some younger blokes too.

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Posted (edited)

 

I think you're a bit skewed with the thinking men are ' not allowed ' to talk of what is pissing them off about their self or their life. Men's Sheds came into being for pretty much this purpose. It's just a pity most

 

Have you ever been to one? Friends? Even on Open Days (where all are welcome)?

 

Family friend actually runs one less than 10kms from us (pretty neat actually, big places to chill, cars to work on, all fun).

I've been in a few times.

Shed403 (or something, I always forget the bloody number!)

Fact is, 99% of it is just a place to unwind. It seems people use it more as a place to hide, but with less pressure (eg. no ones going to ask me about XYZ here, if I'm at home they will).

There's not a lot of 'talking'. Some of the ex-cons do, but I think they got used to having to do it to be considered for bail.

 

It's very cathartic through the physical outlet of shared projects, but mens life is certainly still based on a stigma of 'dont be weak' emotionally.

Edited by Master_Scythe

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I think you're a bit skewed with the thinking men are ' not allowed ' to talk of what is pissing them off about their self or their life. Men's Sheds came into being for pretty much this purpose. It's just a pity most

 

Have you ever been to one? Friends? Even on Open Days (where all are welcome)?

 

Family friend actually runs one less than 10kms from us (pretty neat actually, big places to chill, cars to work on, all fun).

I've been in a few times.

Shed403 (or something, I always forget the bloody number!)

Fact is, 99% of it is just a place to unwind. It seems people use it more as a place to hide, but with less pressure (eg. no ones going to ask me about XYZ here, if I'm at home they will).

There's not a lot of 'talking'. Some of the ex-cons do, but I think they got used to having to do it to be considered for bail.

 

It's very cathartic through the physical outlet of shared projects, but mens life is certainly still based on a stigma of 'dont be weak' emotionally.

 

Being female as I am, my experience is very much off to the side of things. But I do know a number of individuals that use the local men's shed. I've no idea of their discussions whilst

at the shed. They're a regular bunch so I would think there is probably a time or two when personal issues come up. It seems a bit different to how you describe, but I guess all the sheds would vary a bit

depending on the local they are in .

 

I would also say, as the female that I am, I am very loathe to share personal info with random femmes that I've met only a handfull of times. In fact as a female I'd say I'm as wary as your lot sound

... just sayin' ... surely I can't be the only femme out there who keeps stuff close ...

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