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chrisg

Any car gurus around?

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This is driving me a little nuts.

 

Someone left the lights on overnight on my Peugeot 307 and the battery went flat. Being it was about five years old I decided not to mess around and did the "Holler" to get it replaced.

 

The car promptly cranked but would not start.

 

It is supposed, from Googling to be a known issue but I can't see where anything was done wrong or how anything could have been damaged, to me it is a computer fault and some simple reset is needed but every bloody useless mechanic I talk to does some totally counter intuitive illogical leap to it must be a fuel pump/ECU/keys etc etc - riiight... be the first time changing a battery has done that to a car...

 

Various on line suggestions have been tried, no luck so far, getting resigned to calling RAC- the holler merchants of course disavow all responsibility....

 

Any bright ideas ? Currently battery is disconnected again to see if that resets the ECU.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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The usual issue when replacing a battery is that the radio code has to be reentered.

Re the engine, the usual is that the ECU might reset back to default which means it just relearns/retunes itself. Some bits of advice say do a good hard drive for 30 mins. In some cars the idle will be a bit shitty while it relearns.

 

A bit late now but one trick is to maintain power via the cig lighter while changing the battery over so that settings are retained.

 

As for your stuff - it'd be a pretty rare coincidence if the fuel pump or some component happened to fail.

Does it have some sort of immobilisation? Like e.g. plenty of cars will have a 30 second or whatever timeout where it then goes into immobile mode and you usually have to hit the unlock button again to be able to start.

So, is the immobile mode if it exists a case of it'll crank but not fire, or does it plain disable the starter altogether?

ed - the fact it turns over says to me that at least the ECU is able to do that. But funnily enough, car computers can progressively fail. I had a VS Commodore where the BCM decided to crap itself partially. The failure mode there being that it refuses to read the key which meant you needed to leave it in the ignition for 2 hours before it'd allow the ECU to start the car.

 

If it's a known issue then no doubt the solution would have been posted as well.

I guess if it's an OBD2 car which most/all of the last 20 years are then you can get the codes out of it fairly easily. Problem of course being if it's not mobile and you don't have a scan tool handy you'd need to get someone else in.

 

What was the duration between remove old and fit new battery?
My suggestion would be pull all power for half an hour to allow everything to reset. With some cars there's a fuse you can pull rather than going to the trouble of removing battery terminals.

Also, I trust you didn't get nasty arcing while changing the battery? The art of the job is to do it in order and fit/remove terminals in a way to minimize chance of arcing.

ie removal, pull negative first. Fitting, install positive first.

 

(ed) - maybe look up if there's a fallback mode like with the Commodore I mentioned. If it's the security system playing up, the fallback might be that you need to leave it in ACC for some period of time then it allows you to start it.

Edited by Rybags
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A couple of thoughts...

 

Some immobilisers work by killing the electric fuel pump. The alarm/immobiliser might need to learn the codes and sync up with the remote. Sometimes it can take 30-60 minutes to with the car unlocked and then a self-correction mode kicks in - they assume a thief will not wait around the car that long. Otherwise some of the euros have complicated code relearn procedures in the manual to sync the key and car - it might need to have the key in the ignition - if it still has one of those.

 

If it was starting and then cutting out, I would also suggest looking at drive by wire throttle calibration - my Subaru when the battery is flat/disconnected for more than 30 minutes, loses the cal tables, and need to be retrained or it stalls unrelentingly.

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I'm pretty certain it is an immobiliser issue, it makes sense as according to reports that can happen with a battery change - my understanding is that the immobilser cuts power to the fuel pump, certainly cannot hear it running. Peugeot info can be a bit difficult to pry loose sometimes :)

 

The battery was disconnected for several hours, did try a trickle charge first but it was dead.

 

I didn't replace it myself, had Marshall do it, they've always been good but may not have been familiar with Peugeot peculiarities this time :)

 

It is still disconnected atm, will reconnect and try again later.

 

There are several reprogramming procedures on-line, think we have tried them all - no go.

 

Cheers

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Yep, key in the ignition is a common relearn method.

 

You use it for new Commodore keys for most from around 1992-2004. I've used it on Magna and a few other cars with seperate remote to key to get the car to recognise the remote.

 

So it might be worthwhile putting that sort of thing into search terms.

And, yeah - in most cases the info should be in the owner's manual, and often barely gets a mention.


I guess if you wanted to dive deeper into the reason it won't start -

if you can get a plug out easily and run it with it's lead (in some cases hard to do if it's a coil over plug and they're an attached array) - put the threaded part of the plug against the exhaust manifold, probably an idea to wear decent insulated gloves and get someone to crank it to see if there's spark.

At the same time that should give indication as to if fuel is getting through - you should get some petrol residue being spat out the spark plug hole.


I suppose the other obvious/easy things too - check fuses with particular attention to fuel pump and anything to do with engine control, spark or overall car management.

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OK - a quick search and it looks like you might need a "BSI Reset".

 

There's a few YT videos and a bunch of poorly written guides but with a bit of effort you should be able to sort the fly-shit from the pepper.


The common theme seems to be to have the car in low power/sleep mode before disconnecting the battery. So, driver's window down, key in ignition but OFF. Bonnet up. Wait 3 minutes before disconnecting battery so the car goes into low power mode.

 

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hahaha

 

smart cars are dumb

 

(sorry, but my last personal car was a simple creature, and worked quite adequately, so all this voodoo seems mad

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Thanks for looking Ry.

 

Have been doing similar, the thing they seem to get wrong is the bonnet up bit, keeps the BSI alive it seems, and you want it to "go to sleep."

 

Trying something else at the moment which I found on one of the better Peugeot forums, much simpler, will see if it works.

 

I totally agree Scruffy although to be fair I've driven Peugeots for over 20 years and this is the first time this or much else has gone astray to be honest.

 

Cheers

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That's what the 3 minute wait is for... supposedly stuff like bonnet up and boot light conditions (where battery is fitted there) have the timeout period.

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That's what the 3 minute wait is for... supposedly stuff like bonnet up and boot light conditions (where battery is fitted there) have the timeout period.

:)

 

Makes sense, I've read a lot of rubbish trying to fix this, up to and including must be the carbie - it doesn't have one... :)

 

Cheers

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:)

Not really. I ended up getting a mechanic to take a look, stumped him as well so it was taken to his workshop.

Turns out something odd, very odd, happened, there was a blown capacitor on the engine control computer  BCI I think they call it. The guys replaced that, and then found that one of the injectors was not happy - it was fine before-hand so who knows ?

Either way it will be back tomorrow all fixed but with quite a bill involved, I can handle it in two bites, which they are fine about, so hopefully end of saga.

I really do suspect Marshall did something daft but they'll never admit to it so can only write it off to experience.

Not exactly the best of times for me to be getting unexpected bills, but they have a bit of a habit of doing that I find...

Cheers

 

 

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Any resolution to this?

I had a moment yesterday - parked in the next suburb and started up but didn't keep it in start quite long enough for it to fire - so it backfired slightly which it's done before.

Start again and it sounds like crap, like it's running on 3 cylinders and it had zero response.   Popped the bonnet, pulled each plug lead and reseated and started again for the same result.
So, look a second time and how I missed it the first time, no idea.  The backfire had causes a decent sized and prominent rubber hose to pop off the intake, it's clamped at one end but not the other.  Put it back on and all was fine - no doubt it would have been running too lean and the sensory input to the engine control would have been all wrong.

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On 7/25/2018 at 11:06 AM, Rybags said:

A bit late now but one trick is to maintain power via the cig lighter while changing the battery over so that settings are retained.

also with key on "acc"

When I was younger I had one of those little 12v solar panels that plugs into the cig socket. I would leave it on the dash all the time with the keys in my pocket oblivious to the fact that it was doing NOTHING because the key wasn't in the key-hole and switched to the "ACC POSITION" .... I continue to laugh at myself for this.

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