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NZT48

All abortion is murder and should be treated under law the same as any other murder.

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2 hours ago, Nich... said:

Why not another god?

Cause religious franchises are monopolistic, and pretty much deny the validity of any other brand of religion.

Edited by Waltish
spellings

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Hmm,

 

Let me tell you three stories that illustrate why the question is not an easy or perhaps even relevant one to ask.

My ex had a sudden loss of blood a few weeks into her second pregnancy. She made it to my sister's place and my brother-in-law rushed her to hospital. It was a longer trip for me but I still beat him to it, no idea how I avoided a ticket... The doctors were quietly telling us to expect a miscarriage in the next few hours when she interrupted them to say the baby had just kicked her. I think they were about to suggest an abortion to protect her but that all changed when she told them that. She went the rest of the pregnancy in a hospital bed and the docs were convinced we would be dealing with a premmie, to the extent they took us on a tour of the premmie ward - a very sobering experience. Instead she had to be induced and now we have one very healthy daughter.

I was working with a girl who was in about month four when she passed out at her desk. The baby was dying inside her. She was rushed to hospital and all the docs could do was abort to save her life, the baby died during the forced delivery but the mother is still alive and now has two lovely kids.

There's a junior MercyCare at the end of my street - I love kids so I volunteer there every few weeks - fair enough MC clean my house every couple of weeks, I have this amazing carer ever since my little brush with cardiac and clot issues, she organised it. One of the kids there is very, very  severely brain damaged but oh what a kid. Most of the other carers can't really cope with him, but whenever I drop in he runs to meet me and usually I have to catch him, he's a delight. I had a chat to his mum once, apparently they knew before he was born that he had brain issues and suggested an abortion. she refused and has never regretted it - pragmatic woman, he has one wall in their house he can draw on whenever he wants, which is often. He does do it at MC as well, but he is hardly alone, he and I go clean walls quite often, a chore he seems to love, the world would be a poorer place without him. Just how adulthood will be for him I'm rather concerned about, but regardless I'd adopt him in an instant and keep him protected from a world that has troubles dealing with people with his issues. Crazy part is he is damned smart but in a sort of right angled way to most folks - the other kids love him to death - kids are much more tolerant than most adults.


That's a long way of saying I'm not averse to abortion in extremis, but it probably happens more often than is appropriate.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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Doctors are flawed humans too and make bad judgements and miracles can happen. I still say all abortion should be treated the same as any other murder.

To the pro-abortion crowd: in your view when is it justifiable and when is it not justifiable?

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1 hour ago, NZT48 said:

Doctors are flawed humans too and make bad judgements and miracles can happen. I still say all abortion should be treated the same as any other murder.

To the pro-abortion crowd: in your view when is it justifiable and when is it not justifiable?

Hmm,

You are not a woman, I suspect you are not even a father so I would regard your opinion is ill-informed  and extremely ignorant.

 

Cheers

 

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Cool.  So if it's murder to terminate a pregnancy that will put the mother's life at risk, then if we don't abort and she does die, are we charging the newborn with murder?  The doctor?  The state?  you?  Someone done killed a woman, that sounds like murder to me.

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8 hours ago, NZT48 said:

Doctors are flawed humans too and make bad judgements and miracles can happen. I still say all abortion should be treated the same as any other murder.

To the pro-abortion crowd: in your view when is it justifiable and when is it not justifiable?

dB1RUke.jpg

As long as you keep saying "the same as any other murder", then you're still implicitly agreeing that there are certain situations where it's justified, if not called for.

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Well that's why some places have laws for buffer zones around abortion clinics because certain types of people constantly harass the clients and staff there. Yes I'm talking certain types of people who have nothing better to do than stand outside those clinics in the name of a religion.

Edited by Jeruselem

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On 9/13/2018 at 4:51 PM, Nich... said:

Cool.  So if it's murder to terminate a pregnancy that will put the mother's life at risk, then if we don't abort and she does die, are we charging the newborn with murder?  The doctor?  The state?  you?  Someone done killed a woman, that sounds like murder to me.

No. No. No. No. It's not murder.

On 9/13/2018 at 4:47 PM, chrisg said:

You are not a woman, I suspect you are not even a father so I would regard your opinion is ill-informed  and extremely ignorant.

I do not need to be a woman or a father to have a valid opinion on the matter. Why do you think otherwise?

On 9/13/2018 at 11:16 PM, SquallStrife said:

As long as you keep saying "the same as any other murder", then you're still implicitly agreeing that there are certain situations where it's justified, if not called for.

I disagree. If you are aware of the definition of "murder" and your view is unchanged then please enlighten me.

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1 hour ago, NZT48 said:

 

I do not need to be a woman or a father to have a valid opinion on the matter. Why do you think otherwise?

I think you need life experience in order to have an INFORMED opinion

I used to think I knew about depression, until this year when I developed deep depression, I knew nothing

 

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In what way would being a woman or a father properly inform me on the matter?

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Pain probably, and empathy are what both a mother and a father get from both the birth of a child or the loss of a child. One tinged with joy, one with sadness.

Those experiences cannot be appreciated until they have been experienced.

Cheers

 

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I'd go as far as to say that you can't really judge unless you have been impacted by an abortion or been in a position where it was a serious consideration. 

 

Also, Yahweh is not a great example of morality. 

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4 hours ago, NZT48 said:
On 14/09/2018 at 1:51 AM, Nich... said:

Cool.  So if it's murder to terminate a pregnancy that will put the mother's life at risk, then if we don't abort and she does die, are we charging the newborn with murder?  The doctor?  The state?  you?  Someone done killed a woman, that sounds like murder to me.

No. No. No. No. It's not murder.

Why is it not murder ?

The choice was made to favour the unborn over the carrier. The carrier dies. So the choice killed the carrier < that's murder, or suicide, depending on who made the decision.

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14 hours ago, eveln said:

The choice was made to favour the unborn over the carrier. The carrier dies. So the choice killed the carrier < that's murder, or suicide, depending on who made the decision.

Ah but that's the whole point of a lot of the conservative religious right. Women are not equal and only here to be your baby factory and to do as they are told. It's how these insecure and inadequate men make themselves feel important and significant.

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at the end, nobody like abortions

but I would like to know certain statistics, how many women have more than one abortion (did they learn to take better precautions?)

how many abortions are in the first trimester (a glob of cells), second trimester, third trimester (viable human)?

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1 hour ago, TheManFromPOST said:

at the end, nobody like abortions

I get the feeling ( given the diversity of us ) there are probably individuals out there who do " like " to have surgery, and an abortion is a surgery, so with that in mind, I think it's probably wrong to assume the above.

Even though what I said just then sounds trite / cavalier / silly etc.etc. I'm certain there are times when people are very glad to have a healthy and safely done abortion.

Given how generally hard it has been to have abortions made legal and accepted in societies,  imo, looking at statistics will not be much of a fair indication . Wrong names and other means
to cover a person's identity will be more the go to mode than supplying correct details. Even today there be lots of people who would not like this particular procedure to be apart of their or their families
medical history.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, eveln said:

I get the feeling ( given the diversity of us ) there are probably individuals out there who do " like " to have surgery, and an abortion is a surgery, so with that in mind, I think it's probably wrong to assume the above.

 

OKAY

99.999999999999% dont like abortions

(being pedantic does not move a debate on)

Edited by TheManFromPOST

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46 minutes ago, eveln said:

probably individuals out there who do " like " to have surgery

There are definitely people who like having surgery, particularly plastic surgery, but even some few who like having bits of themselves amputated. ( !! )

People be weird. And shit.  But mostly weird.

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34 minutes ago, Cybes said:

There are definitely people who like having surgery, particularly plastic surgery, but even some few who like having bits of themselves amputated. ( !! )

 

As someone who has to now consider plastic surgery, I'd rather avoid it. amputation sucks as well

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According to a nurse I used to know first trimester abortions are almost always as she used to call it "radical birth control" although sometimes a valid medical reason can present. Trimester two and three are most always, in Australia, for sound medical reasons involving either a danger to the mother or in second trimester especially a developing fetus being found to be completely non-viable or shown to be the victim of a very damaging or deemed fatal condition. Not always, if some non-fatal but disabling condition is found via amniotic test I assume the parents may be offered the choice.,

China was a major practitioner of third trimester abortions - part of the one child policy but also if the child was identified as female. Both rather barbaric reasons if you ask me but I would imagine still happening there, for the same reasons, just they have a two child policy now.

Cheers

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, TheManFromPOST said:
9 hours ago, eveln said:

I get the feeling ( given the diversity of us ) there are probably individuals out there who do " like " to have surgery, and an abortion is a surgery, so with that in mind, I think it's probably wrong to assume the above.

 

OKAY

99.999999999999% dont like abortions

(being pedantic does not move a debate on)

seriously not trying to be pendantic but just because you show a healthy ( imo ) dislike for having people work surgically on you ( ref. below ) doesn't mean there are not those that like, or at least not mind pain in order to achieve something.

7 hours ago, TheManFromPOST said:

As someone who has to now consider plastic surgery, I'd rather avoid it. amputation sucks as well

 

Edited by eveln
ffs... I beeded to add a " not "

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

China was a major practitioner of third trimester abortions - part of the one child policy but also if the child was identified as female. Both rather barbaric reasons if you ask me but I would imagine still happening there, for the same reasons, just they have a two child policy now

...perhaps because they want more bodies on the ground for future wars etc. although by then won't most of war be done from  long distance parameter

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