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NZT48

All abortion is murder and should be treated under law the same as any other murder.

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Heh,

No Ev, the one child policy was very unpopular, almost impossible to police because in most of rural China home birthing is still the norm. It did however lead to a lot of term female babes being terminated because boys were preferred for various reasons.

Cheers

 

 

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Do I need to be the father of a born child to know that it is wrong for people to murder born children? No. And I do not need to be a father to know it is wrong to kill unborn children.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:45 AM, eveln said:

Why is it not murder ?

The choice was made to favour the unborn over the carrier. The carrier dies. So the choice killed the carrier < that's murder, or suicide, depending on who made the decision.

It isn't, actually. Go and look up the definition of murder and have a think about it. Even if there was no chance (which is not possible to be known) that either of them would survive unless the abortion is performed it is still not murder for the abortion to not be performed.

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2 hours ago, NZT48 said:

It isn't, actually. Go and look up the definition of murder and have a think about it. Even if there was no chance (which is not possible to be known) that either of them would survive unless the abortion is performed it is still not murder for the abortion to not be performed.

So, the way a definition is worded makes it okay in your book for the carrier's life to be forfeit over that of the unborn . In this day with the knowledge learned, there's a damn good chance of knowing who will or will not survive.

In countries where medical help is less than adequate is where the ' miracle ' may or may not happen.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2019 at 2:57 PM, NZT48 said:

I disagree. If you are aware of the definition of "murder" and your view is unchanged then please enlighten me.

"The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

Did you perhaps forget to read the definition of murder? HMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????

Let me re-iterate, if a doctor determines that INACTION will cause the loss of TWO lives, while an ABORTION will reduce this to the loss of ONE life, he is not only legally obligated, but ethically and morally obligated to minimise the loss of life. If he fails to perform, or at least recommend the abortion in this instance, he is not only negligent in his duty of care, but ethically and morally bankrupt, for consciously choosing a path leading to the loss of more lives, over one leading to the loss of fewer.

People CAN and HAVE been charged with manslaughter by way of gross negligence for choosing inaction, where choosing action would have saved a life.

In the EXACT SAME WAY that police officers and armed forces personnel are ethically and morally obligated to take one life / a few lives to save many as part of their duty.

Edited by SquallStrife
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12 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

Did you perhaps forget to read the definition of murder? HMMMMMMMM

No.

12 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

Let me re-iterate, if a doctor determines that INACTION will cause the loss of TWO lives, while an ABORTION will reduce this to the loss of ONE life, he is not only legally obligated, but ethically and morally obligated to minimise the loss of life.

I do not believe a doctor can possibly know that for sure.

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10 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

No.

I do not believe a doctor can possibly know that for sure.

Nobody can know anything "for sure". Which is why, in court, you prove your case "beyond reasonable doubt".

Yes, that applies to murder cases too.

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?

SS is indeed correct, doctors make judgement cases all the time and sometimes they are wrong but when dealing with the body of an adult wrapped around a distressed fetus they have a pretty clear presentation of the prognosis of the adult.

Cheers

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17 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

Nobody can know anything "for sure".

Nonsense.

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27 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Nonsense.

?

 

In a global sense it probably is, but not so much in the scenarios presented.

Cheers

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10 hours ago, NZT48 said:

Nonsense.

If your worldview is dogmatically tied up in absolutes, then there's no point discussing anything with you.

Only mathematics deals in absolute truths. Even the theoretical and applied natural sciences are predicated on the concept that statements are falsifiable.

Consider a hypothetical situation where a gunman is on a spree with a fully automatic belt-fed gun, and it's not possible to get close enough to incapacitate him non-lethally. If you take the absolute position that you must not take his life, what do you do? Do you simply let him keep mowing down people until he runs out of ammunition? Of course not, that's absurd. You don't know "for sure" that he's going to keep firing, you don't know "for sure" that his bullets will continue to find their targets, but it's beyond reasonable doubt that more people will die unless something is done.

 

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That's different. In that scenario the gunman is in the wrong. Unborn children are never in the wrong.

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I know for sure I am a man. I know for sure I walked today. I know for sure I ate today. I know for sure God exists. I know for sure the world is round.

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2 hours ago, NZT48 said:

That's different. In that scenario the gunman is in the wrong. Unborn children are never in the wrong.

Are you meaning to say that punishing "wrongness" is a bigger factor there than saving human lives?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

1 hour ago, NZT48 said:

I know for sure I am a man. I know for sure I walked today. I know for sure I ate today. I know for sure God exists. I know for sure the world is round.

You might be a goat dreaming about being a man.

You might have hallucinated walking and eating.

The world may be a non-cartesian multiple-dimensioned body that we just see as being round because of how our vision and perception work.

 

But, these things are beyond reasonable doubt, because they are all incredibly unlikely.

Unlikely isn't impossible.

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?

 

The much vaunted church imprisoned people once for daring to suggest the EARTH was NOT flat ?

As for being convinced of the existence of a God, prove it ?

Cheers

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3 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

Are you meaning to say that punishing "wrongness" is a bigger factor there than saving human lives?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

You might be a goat dreaming about being a man.

You might have hallucinated walking and eating.

The world may be a non-cartesian multiple-dimensioned body that we just see as being round because of how our vision and perception work.

 

But, these things are beyond reasonable doubt, because they are all incredibly unlikely.

Unlikely isn't impossible.

We could all be part of a simulation. Everything we know up til this point could be preprogrammed and we just believe that we have experienced everything prior. In fact some people argue that if there is one real world and they can make simulations like this then we are mathematically more likely to be part of one than the real world being that 1 vs 1000s of possible simulations.

 

No one can be certain of anything really but some things just aren’t worth trying to disprove by the average person.

 

Also @NZT48, I am 100% sure that the Christian god is not real. So both of us are 100% sure of an opposing point of view. There are no finites. Everything is belief. Some beliefs are better founded than others though.

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On 1/8/2019 at 4:11 AM, SquallStrife said:

Are you meaning to say that punishing "wrongness" is a bigger factor there than saving human lives?

 No.

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On 05/01/2019 at 3:57 PM, NZT48 said:

No. No. No. No. It's not murder.

I disagree. If you are aware of the definition of "murder" and your view is unchanged then please enlighten me.

Sorry.  Replace everywhere I said 'murder' with 'manslaughter'. 

On 08/01/2019 at 2:28 PM, Jeruselem said:

The church thought the earth was flat for centuries ...

Citation, please.

On 08/01/2019 at 1:44 PM, NZT48 said:

I know for sure I am a man. I know for sure I walked today. I know for sure I ate today. I know for sure God exists. I know for sure the world is round.

How do you know you're not suffering from schizophrenia or some other illness causing you false perceptions of reality?

On 08/01/2019 at 3:29 PM, chrisg said:

The much vaunted church imprisoned people once for daring to suggest the EARTH was NOT flat ?

Citation, please.

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2 minutes ago, chrisg said:

I think you well know Nich that there really isn't one

I think Nich just has his cranky pants on. ?

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1 hour ago, Cybes said:

I think Nich just has his cranky pants on. ?

If I had my cranky pants on, I can tell you I wouldn't have bitten my tongue so much in this latest resurgence of dmb threads ?

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On 08/01/2019 at 3:29 PM, chrisg said:

?

 

The much vaunted church imprisoned people once for daring to suggest the EARTH was NOT flat ?

As for being convinced of the existence of a God, prove it ?

Cheers

Actually I believe people were punished for claiming the earth went around the sun and not the other way around. Not sure if that was the church alone tho. 

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