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NZT48

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Money. We use it every day. We rely on it for transport, the food we eat, the clothes we wear, our housing, the electricity we use. The list goes on. But what gives money value? Confidence. Confidence is what gives the money we use value. Confidence that the money we accept will be accepted by others. Without the official decoration it would jut be worthless pieces of plastic and metal.

Historically the free market has chosen gold and silver as money because of their properties. Before that it was barter. We don’t have a free market. The practice of using money without intrinsic value is a recent thing. All such money eventually returns to its intrinsic value of zero. We need to go back to using money with intrinsic value ASAP. If only John Howard and Peter Costello hadn't sold off our gold reserves. We need to get rid of legal tender legislation. Individuals should be free to use whatever they want as money.

Currency Act 1965:

Quote

 

. . .

Subject to this section, every sale, every bill of exchange or promissory note, every security for money, and every other contract, agreement, deed, instrument, transaction, dealing, matter or thing relating to money, or involving the payment of, or a liability to pay, money, that is made, executed, entered into or done, shall, unless it is made, executed, entered into or done according to the currency of some country other than Australia, be made, executed, entered into or done according to the currency of Australia provided for by this Act.

. . .

Every payment that is made shall, unless it is made according to the currency of some country other than Australia, be made according to the currency of Australia provided for by this Act.

. . .

A person shall not make or issue a piece of gold, silver, copper, nickel, bronze or of any other material, whether metal or otherwise, of any value, other than a coin made or issued under the repealed Acts or under this Act or a British coin as defined by the repealed Acts, as a token for money or as purporting that the holder is entitled to demand any value denoted on it.

Penalty:  1 penalty unit.

. . .

Denomination of Coin

Standard Composition

Two hundred dollars......................................

11/12ths gold and 1/12th other metal

One hundred dollars.......................................

11/12ths gold and 1/12th other metal

Fifty dollars.....................................................

11/12ths gold and 1/12th other metal

Twenty‑five dollars........................................

11/12ths gold and 1/12th other metal

Ten dollars.......................................................

92.5% silver and 7.5% other metal

Fifty cents........................................................

Copper and nickel

Twenty cents...................................................

Copper and nickel

Ten cents..........................................................

Copper and nickel

Five cents.........................................................

Copper and nickel

Two cents.........................................................

Copper, tin and zinc

One cent...........................................................

Copper, tin and zinc

. . .

 

Why are we not using these coins?

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Australia has gold reserves, but it's sitting in the UK! About 80 tonnes.

New Zealand has ... NO GOLD reserves.

Edited by Jeruselem

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Oh wow, it's this brok...brok...brok...brok...brok...broken record of a thread again.

"We need to go back to using money with intrinsic value ASAP."

You've been parroting this god damned line for years, but are still to explain why, save for some Alex Jonesian rhetoric and weak generalisations.

Explain why. Pretend you're writing an assignment on why. Where's the data? Where's the predictive analysis based on historical Gold Standard economies? If the Gold Standard is the panacea you so steadfastly believe it is, then it should be trivial to find the statistics supporting the position that people and economies are better off on the Gold Standard.

I don't need to explain why they aren't. History has helpfully done that for me. Departure from the Gold Standard was a reliable predictor for when contries' economise began to recover following the Great Depression. That's not speculation, that's not brainwashing by "the man", that's not fanciful thinking or philosophical rhetoric, those are the cold, hard figures.

Now you are on the back foot. You have provided some nebulous bullshit about "we should" "we need" this, that and the other. That's not an argument. That's barely even a post. That's talk-show grandstanding at best.

Do your research, run the numbers, find precedents for Gold Standard economies that have been successful, ever. Then, get back to us with a little more than "We need X. X is better."

I suspect you won't find what you're looking for, however, and will come back to bicker semantics, point out typos, and otherwise dodge the point as always.

Tell me one thing.

What the fuck do you get out of this?

Edited by SquallStrife
  • Yes Sir! Very atomic! 1

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Individuals should be free to use whatever they want as money.

Really... hey!  Here's a pile of gravel I gathered up from the roadside in exchange for that shiny new car!

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2 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

because a card is lighter ?

People still use cash even though it is becoming less common (which I believe is leading to the mark of the beast).

50 minutes ago, SquallStrife said:

. . .

Explain why. Pretend you're writing an assignment on why. Where's the data? Where's the predictive analysis based on historical Gold Standard economies? If the Gold Standard is the panacea you so steadfastly believe it is, then it should be trivial to find the statistics supporting the position that people and economies are better off on the Gold Standard.

I don't need to explain why they aren't. History has helpfully done that for me. Departure from the Gold Standard was a reliable predictor for when contries' economise began to recover following the Great Depression. That's not speculation, that's not brainwashing by "the man", that's not fanciful thinking or philosophical rhetoric, those are the cold, hard figures.

Now you are on the back foot. You have provided some nebulous bullshit about "we should" "we need" this, that and the other. That's not an argument. That's barely even a post. That's talk-show grandstanding at best.

Do your research, run the numbers, find precedents for Gold Standard economies that have been successful, ever. Then, get back to us with a little more than "We need X. X is better."

I suspect you won't find what you're looking for, however, and will come back to bicker semantics, point out typos, and otherwise dodge the point as always.

Tell me one thing.

What the fuck do you get out of this?

I don't want a gold standard; I want freedom.

History has not done that for you.

"For full explanation and sources see prout The Great Depression in Facts and Figures" The link doesn't even work.

What data do you want?

33 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Really... hey!  Here's a pile of gravel I gathered up from the roadside in exchange for that shiny new car!

And that would not be accepted for good reason...

I think people should be free to use gravel or bits of plastic or invaluable metal as money if they want. Like I said: "I want freedom".

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Really, it's just a bullshit argument that's spruiked by "have nots" advocates that think that changing the system would result in a sudden redistrubution of wealth to those who they think have been shortchanged.

Fact of the matter is probably everyone woud suffer, and the only ones who'd recover are the ones who actually posess the motivation to get off their arses and do something for themselves.
Net result being we'd end up much where we were in the first place.

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The obvious motive is to devalue existing currency to near the point of being worthless, isn't it?

Then somehow endow everyone with an equal playing field and all live happily ever after.

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1 hour ago, NZT48 said:

And that would not be accepted for good reason...

I think people should be free to use gravel or bits of plastic or invaluable metal as money if they want. Like I said: "I want freedom".

Did you not just contradict your first reply with the second? You won't accept gravel, but you think it's ok to use as currency? So is it or is it not?

People can use whatever they want as currency, but it only has value if people deem it to have a value to them.

All the monetary currencies have a value because that's what has been determined by the various govt's/authorities etc.

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1 hour ago, Rybags said:

The obvious motive is to devalue existing currency to near the point of being worthless, isn't it?

Then somehow endow everyone with an equal playing field and all live happily ever after.

Pretty much all the money we have is created from debt, which ends up enslaving everyone. Debt runs our system from top to bottom.

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1 hour ago, Rybags said:

The obvious motive is to devalue existing currency to near the point of being worthless, isn't it?

Then somehow endow everyone with an equal playing field and all live happily ever after.

hey !

 

you've got the plot for mr. robot

 

 

but once you destroy money as a system, the world just gets fucked up using a different paradigm.... it's how humanity operates apparently

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31 minutes ago, Rybags said:

The obvious motive is to devalue existing currency to near the point of being worthless, isn't it?

Then somehow endow everyone with an equal playing field and all live happily ever after.

I think the Australian government should buy lots of precious metals and then offer them in exchange for the currency we use now.

19 minutes ago, rs727 said:

Did you not just contradict your first reply with the second? You won't accept gravel, but you think it's ok to use as currency? So is it or is it not?

People can use whatever they want as currency, but it only has value if people deem it to have a value to them.

All the monetary currencies have a value because that's what has been determined by the various govt's/authorities etc.

Your second and third paragraphs are contradictory. Like I said: "Confidence is what gives the money we use value. Confidence that the money we accept will be accepted by others." It is illegal to use money other than the official currency. Read what I quoted from Currency Act 1965.

Don't contort what I said. I said "I think people should be free to use gravel or bits of plastic or invaluable metal as money if they want."

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3 hours ago, NZT48 said:

I don't want a gold standard; I want freedom.

History has not done that for you.

"For full explanation and sources see prout The Great Depression in Facts and Figures" The link doesn't even work.

What data do you want?

First there were physically-backed currencies, then there was a Great Depression, the affected countries switched to floated currencies, they recovered.

At the very least, you have a post hoc ergo propter hoc situation, and closer investigation is required.

If the link didn't work, you could have simply done an archive.org search, but I completely understand why you wouldn't want to do that. The fiscal data on countries switching away from physically-backed currencies is not supportive of your position, so why would you?

https://web.archive.org/web/20150113162339/http://www.analysis.williamdoneil.com/great_depression_facts_figures.htm For whomever is interested.

What data do I want? Something. Anything. YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING AN ASSERTION, IT IS UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE DATA BACKING YOUR POSITION.

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After 1929 crash, mainly caused by dodgy shit going on the US stock markets, the Gold standard got dropped. The central banks seized control of sovereign money supplies and the money supply was no longer controlled by how much Gold a country had. After 1970s, the silver standard was removed (blame Nixon) and currencies were truly removed from any physical assets. So money now is just bunch of Monopoly money.

Edited by Jeruselem

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42 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Your second and third paragraphs are contradictory.

Are they though?

 

2 hours ago, rs727 said:

People can use whatever they want as currency, but it only has value if people deem it to have a value to them.

People are able to barter whatever they want with each other, effectively creating their own currency. A pig has has value to someone if they want one, but is worth nothing to someone if they don't. It doesn't make it legal tender, but it still forms the basis of the transaction which ultimately is what any currency is used for.

2 hours ago, rs727 said:

All the monetary currencies have a value because that's what has been determined by the various govt's/authorities etc.

I think that pretty much says what it needs to.

Both statements are independent of each other. While you can debunk them using some roundabout logic, it doesn't take away from the fact they are both true statements.

57 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Don't contort what I said. I said "I think people should be free to use gravel or bits of plastic or invaluable metal as money if they want."

You can repeat that as many times as you want, it doesn't make it any more right, or my statements wrong. "Gravel or bits of plastic or invaluable metal" will only become valued if someone deems them to be worth something to them, or passed in by law stating so.

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The other thing I should have mentioned is counterfeiting is much easier to do and get away with when you are using money without intrinsic value.

7 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

Hypocrite.

What did I contort?

7 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

First there were physically-backed currencies, then there was a Great Depression, the affected countries switched to floated currencies, they recovered.

At the very least, you have a post hoc ergo propter hoc situation, and closer investigation is required.

If the link didn't work, you could have simply done an archive.org search, but I completely understand why you wouldn't want to do that. The fiscal data on countries switching away from physically-backed currencies is not supportive of your position, so why would you?

https://web.archive.org/web/20150113162339/http://www.analysis.williamdoneil.com/great_depression_facts_figures.htm For whomever is interested.

What data do I want? Something. Anything. YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING AN ASSERTION, IT IS UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE DATA BACKING YOUR POSITION.

Why are you so afraid of freedom?

Did you even look at your own data?

6 hours ago, rs727 said:

Are they though?

Yes.

We can barter but it is much more practical to use money in almost all cases. We are supposed to pay tax where we barter too.

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20 hours ago, NZT48 said:

Money. We use it every day. We rely on it for transport, the food we eat, the clothes we wear, our housing, the electricity we use. The list goes on. But what gives money value? Confidence. Confidence is what gives the money we use value. Confidence that the money we accept will be accepted by others. Without the official decoration it would jut be worthless pieces of plastic and metal.

Historically the free market has chosen gold and silver as money because of their properties. Before that it was barter. We don’t have a free market. The practice of using money without intrinsic value is a recent thing. All such money eventually returns to its intrinsic value of zero. We need to go back to using money with intrinsic value ASAP. If only John Howard and Peter Costello hadn't sold off our gold reserves. We need to get rid of legal tender legislation. Individuals should be free to use whatever they want as money.

Currency Act 1965:

Why are we not using these coins?

legal tender replaced gold and silver becuase there was not enough gold and silver to go around. paper money was originally "I owe you" notes written on paper.

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23 hours ago, NZT48 said:

(which I believe is leading to the mark of the beast).

What's that?

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1 hour ago, NZT48 said:

See Revelation 13:16-17 and Revelation 14:9-11.

This the mark of the beast?

$

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People can and do use whatever they want as money. Money is just a medium of exchange to facilitate barter. 

The government doesn't give a shit what you use as money. The only thing they care about is that whatever you decide to use, you still pay tax on income.

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5 hours ago, NZT48 said:

See Revelation 13:16-17 and Revelation 14:9-11.

Not even going to provide a link to a specific version?  Nah.

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