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NZT48

money

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6 hours ago, Nich... said:

Not even going to provide a link to a specific version?  Nah.

Revelation 13:16-17

And he causes all - both great and small; rich and poor; free and bound - to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads. No man may buy or sell except he that has the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

Revelation 14:9-11
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice, "IF ANYONE WORSHIPS THE BEAST OR ITS IMAGE AND RECEIVES ITS MARK ON THEIR FOREHEAD OR ON THEIR HAND, THEY, TOO, WILL DRINK THE WINE OF GOD'S FURY WHICH HAS BEEN POURED FULL STRENGTH INTO THE CUP OF HIS WRATH! THEY WILL BE TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS AND THE LAMB! THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT WILL RISE FOR EVER AND EVER! THERE WILL BE NO REST - DAY OR NIGHT - FOR THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE BEAST OR ITS IMAGE, OR FOR ANYONE WHO RECEIVES THE MARK OF ITS NAME!"

 

Those angels really knew how to talk smack back in the olden days.

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On 9/3/2018 at 9:29 AM, RenascentMisanthropy said:

legal tender replaced gold and silver becuase there was not enough gold and silver to go around. paper money was originally "I owe you" notes written on paper.

Legal tender was gold and silver. According to Thomson Reuters GFMS there is 171,300 tonnes of gold in the world which would mean ~6.837 kg per Australian. I thought paper money was originally receipts for gold in a gold standard. 

On 9/4/2018 at 11:41 AM, Kothos said:

People can and do use whatever they want as money. Money is just a medium of exchange to facilitate barter. 

The government doesn't give a shit what you use as money. The only thing they care about is that whatever you decide to use, you still pay tax on income.

If "The government doesn't give a shit what you use as money." then why has it legislated about it?

 

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5 hours ago, Nich... said:

Why?

It''s a medium of exchange, a unit of account, portable, durable, divisible, fungible and a store of value.

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7 hours ago, NZT48 said:

If "The government doesn't give a shit what you use as money." then why has it legislated about it?

 

Legislated about what?

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On 9/2/2018 at 5:06 PM, NZT48 said:

People still use cash even though it is becoming less common (which I believe is leading to the mark of the beast).

 

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1 hour ago, NZT48 said:

What we may use as money.

So we used to be able to take shavings of silver and gold down the street to buy some beer and smokes?

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41 minutes ago, Nich... said:

So we used to be able to take shavings of silver and gold down the street to buy some beer and smokes?

Actually in the gold rush, gold was traded like money - unofficial money before everything got standardized to proper coinage. Mainly because there was a huge shortage of coinage in general which resulted in Rum become currency for a time.

Edited by Jeruselem

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2 hours ago, NZT48 said:

What we may use as money.

You CAN use whatever you want as money.

You're just not allowed to pass off things you made yourself as legal tender.

Like, oh, I don't know....... COUNTERFEITING.

 

And to answer your question, I'm not afraid of freedom, I love freedom, I'm just not in an abusive relationship with freedom the way that you are.

Just the same way that while we generally agree that killing somebody is wrong, sometimes we have to do it to prevent a worse outcome.

Edited by SquallStrife

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On 9/10/2018 at 9:11 AM, NZT48 said:

It''s a medium of exchange, a unit of account, portable, durable, divisible, fungible and a store of value.

I'm afraid I don't understand this topic whenever it comes up.

People argue Gold and Silver are of value because we can use them for other things (is that why?)
It has 'value' in manufacturing etc, right?
But really, it's just a colored mineral found in the ground.
 

Paper (or electronic) money is also rare; because we make it so!
You can look at various African nations to see what happens if you don't ?
In your opinion, Why is it to be rejected?
Is it PURELY because it only has one use?
Can't it's job of being a  symbol of effort or resources spent, be enough?

 

Every time I read this, it just always ends up in my mind as being complicated.
I mean, if we went to a GOLD based currency, would you have to test EVERY transaction made to make sure it wasn't blended with something?

Just sounds like a nightmare of work to ensure you're not being scammed.

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3 minutes ago, Master_Scythe said:

In your opinion, Why is it to be rejected?
Is it PURELY because it only has one use?

Because bla bla bla freedom bla bla bla government bla bla bla revelations bla bla bla gods will bla bla bla freedom bla bla bla Alex Jones bla bla bla change my mind.

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Just now, SquallStrife said:

Because bla bla bla freedom bla bla bla government bla bla bla revelations bla bla bla gods will bla bla bla freedom bla bla bla Alex Jones bla bla bla change my mind.

Well, yeah, but it's not always the god botherers who preach on about it, so I was curious more broadly why some people try to reject it.

If they so choose; Barter isn't illegal.

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1 hour ago, Master_Scythe said:

Well, yeah, but it's not always the god botherers who preach on about it, so I was curious more broadly why some people try to reject it.

If they so choose; Barter isn't illegal.

Oh for sure, was only trying to give clairvoyance on the (non-)answer you're going to get. ?

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I just don't get it.  Like, it seems stupid to insist people carry multiple denominations of gold shavings to pay for things, so some intermediary form is fine because it was fine when gold was the standard.  But now that the dollar is an investment and can be traded, and changes (international) value based on supply and demand, it's bad to have dollars?

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40 minutes ago, Nich... said:

But now that the dollar is an investment and can be traded, and changes (international) value based on supply and demand, it's bad to have dollars?

And that begs the question;
Was it equally a sign of 'the devil' when we had "Silver Dollars"?

One one side, it was made of silver. But silver was of lower value than the coin (in the beginning... this didn't last long)

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4 hours ago, SquallStrife said:

You CAN use whatever you want as money.

You're just not allowed to pass off things you made yourself as legal tender.

Like, oh, I don't know....... COUNTERFEITING.

 

And to answer your question, I'm not afraid of freedom, I love freedom, I'm just not in an abusive relationship with freedom the way that you are.

Just the same way that while we generally agree that killing somebody is wrong, sometimes we have to do it to prevent a worse outcome.

Like I said: counterfeiting is much easier when you are using money without intrinsic value.

Did you not read what I quoted from Currency Act 1965? I'll quote the relevant part again for you. "A  person shall not make or issue a piece of gold, silver, copper, nickel, bronze or of any other material, whether metal or otherwise, of any value...as a token for  money..."

12 minutes ago, Master_Scythe said:

I'm afraid I don't understand this topic whenever it comes up.

People argue Gold and Silver are of value because we can use them for other things (is that why?)
It has 'value' in manufacturing etc, right?
But really, it's just a colored mineral found in the ground.
 

Paper (or electronic) money is also rare; because we make it so!
You can look at various African nations to see what happens if you don't ?
In your opinion, Why is it to be rejected?
Is it PURELY because it only has one use?
Can't it's job of being a  symbol of effort or resources spent, be enough?

 

Every time I read this, it just always ends up in my mind as being complicated.
I mean, if we went to a GOLD based currency, would you have to test EVERY transaction made to make sure it wasn't blended with something?

Just sounds like a nightmare of work to ensure you're not being scammed.

No; you wouldn't have to test every transaction. I think counterfeiting the currency we use now is easier than counterfeiting gold.

I want freedom. That means being legally allowed to use whatever we want as money. People can try using bits of plastic or paper if they want but without legal tender legislation it won't be accepted and for good reason. Historically the free market has chosen gold and silver as money. Imagine there is a plane crash and the survivors find themselves on a deserted island without hope of rescue. One man is good at fishing, another is good at carpentry, another fetches water, another cooks, another fetches edible plants and another is appointed leader. Barter works but to make trade easier they trade with berries. A fish is worth ten berries, a shelter one hundred, etc. Can you imagine the absurdity of the leader deciding that instead of using berries for money they must now use leaves (which are practically unlimited in quantity) with his signature on them?

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13 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

No; you wouldn't have to test every transaction. I think counterfeiting the currency we use now is easier than counterfeiting gold.

Than you're dead, DEAD wrong.
If I snuck 1 ounce of fools gold into 10 ounces of real gold shavings you'd never spot it.
Or if I melted many various other metals into the gold to amke a gold alloy, you'd never know without a testing kit.

Counterfeiting our plastic money is actually VERY hard to do, and counterfeiting a bank accounts currency requires... jeez.... master hackers and a man on the inside? I dunno!

 

13 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

I want freedom. That means being legally allowed to use whatever we want as money.

You can, so long as what you have to offer, is wanted by the other party.   It just so happens, most want our standard currency; but certainly not all.
I've traded a car tow for a case of beer many a time! I also traded 'Points' on my coffee card for a doughnut, and traded a 'lift to the airport' for a tank of fuel recently.

 

13 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Historically the free market has chosen gold and silver as money. Imagine there is a plane crash and the survivors find themselves on a deserted island without hope of rescue. One man is good at fishing, another is good at carpentry, another fetches water, another cooks, another fetches edible plants and another is appointed leader. Barter works but to make trade easier they trade with berries. A fish is worth ten berries, a shelter one hundred, etc.

Yes, and 'Berries' are their 'money', just like dollars are ours. So far, you're describing money.

 

13 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Can you imagine the absurdity of the leader deciding that instead of using berries for money they must now use leaves (which are practically unlimited in quantity) with his signature on them?

They're only unlimited in quantity if he signs an unlimited amount.
Otherwise, they're greatly limited in quantity, to help ensure their value.
1 billion new leaves can grow, but the 'signed' leaves are the same number, so no loss in trade.

 

 

I think I can see part of your angle;

You're suggesting how 'wrong' it would be for a leader to suddenly make everyone's berries useless, and leaves the only acceptable thing.
However, if the leader offered to trade the berries (gold), for his new leaf system (dollars); and on top of that if the Majority were in agreement anyway, then no one has really lost anything!

And to top it all off, you can still trade a fish for a herb and leave the entire berry\leaf thing out of it!

Win Win!

Edited by Master_Scythe

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OMG berries as money that's craziness, why, berries grow on trees! Oh wait, so do leaves.

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Utterly absurd. Where in the Holy Bible does it state that only men should have to fetch the water?! These fools should be more concerned about their impending eternal damnation instead of lusting after tasty wealth and power.

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4 hours ago, Master_Scythe said:

Than you're dead, DEAD wrong.
If I snuck 1 ounce of fools gold into 10 ounces of real gold shavings you'd never spot it.
Or if I melted many various other metals into the gold to amke a gold alloy, you'd never know without a testing kit.

Counterfeiting our plastic money is actually VERY hard to do, and counterfeiting a bank accounts currency requires... jeez.... master hackers and a man on the inside? I dunno!

 

You can, so long as what you have to offer, is wanted by the other party.   It just so happens, most want our standard currency; but certainly not all.
I've traded a car tow for a case of beer many a time! I also traded 'Points' on my coffee card for a doughnut, and traded a 'lift to the airport' for a tank of fuel recently.

 

Yes, and 'Berries' are their 'money', just like dollars are ours. So far, you're describing money.

 

They're only unlimited in quantity if he signs an unlimited amount.
Otherwise, they're greatly limited in quantity, to help ensure their value.
1 billion new leaves can grow, but the 'signed' leaves are the same number, so no loss in trade.

 

 

I think I can see part of your angle;

You're suggesting how 'wrong' it would be for a leader to suddenly make everyone's berries useless, and leaves the only acceptable thing.
However, if the leader offered to trade the berries (gold), for his new leaf system (dollars); and on top of that if the Majority were in agreement anyway, then no one has really lost anything!

And to top it all off, you can still trade a fish for a herb and leave the entire berry\leaf thing out of it!

Win Win!

How do you know "most want our standard currency"? Have you done a survey?

The berries are not like our money or leaves in that they have intrinsic value.

We are not permitted to use whatever we want as money actually. Did you not read what I quoted from Currency Act 1965? I'll quote the relevant part again for you. "A  person shall not make or issue a piece of gold, silver, copper, nickel, bronze or of any other material, whether metal or otherwise, of any value...as a token for  money..."

Something that has not been considered in this thread is cryptocurrencies. I must look into it.

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