Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kimmo

What a joke

Recommended Posts

🙂

 

Hardly Ev, under the surface, unless something that I am not aware of has changed Leo and I are good friends. We just have robust conversations 🙂

 

The question is, what the hell has he actually done ?

 

I'm not arguing with you that there have been a lot of very oily pollies, personally I think we are enduring one here at the moment - Morrison is a moron.

 

We'll get over it but with the U.S. we have to be much more careful because their influence is totally global, ours is at best regional and declining.

 

I really cannot see that Trump is a safe person to have that responsibility.

 

So far he has fiddled with taxes, which benefited the wealthy not the poorer side of America, claimed he improved the economy and reduced unemployment, which is demonstrably untrue, half a fiddling with figures and half flow on consequences from the Obama administration. He pulled out of Syria, except he didn't, he has done nothing to end the horrors of Iraq and Afghanistan and is exacerbating issues in Iran whilst hoping like hell that Venezuela will go away, which it wont.

 

In short internationally he's a disaster in motion and that is an issue, America will have to deal with him, they voted him in, we didn't but he is destabilising the globe by sucking up to Putin and Kim in particular.

 

He seems to think, if he thinks at all, that he can treat international politics like any other business deal, which he is fucking hopeless at anyway, but that is not the case at all.

 

The only way you deal with clusterfucks like Putin and fatboy is by staring them down, otherwise they will simply take advantage of you like any bully boy on earth would.

 

Instead he thinks there is a "deal" to be had - not one that he can ever win there isn't.

 

As a complete aside I note he seems to have usurped the 4th of July celebrations to make it into a rally - perhaps that will wake another portion of very patriotic America to just what a waste of space he is.

 

It would be nice if he would just go to Florida and not come back, he can't do massive harm cheating at golf...

 

Btw, it costs America a small fortune every time he swans off down there.

 

Obama liked golf as well, mostly played at Andrews AFB or Camp David which comparatively costs nothing.

 

He sure likes spending other people's money...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Leonid said:

 

Have you considered the Doppler Effect and that it's maybe you who has moved further?

 

i think the concept youre after there is just garden variety Galilean relativity.

 

but i suppose there's room for both, since from certain vantage points it could be argued that your lurches toward the far right have lowered the tone of this forum :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, @~thehung said:

 

i think the concept youre after there is just garden variety Galilean relativity.

 

but i suppose there's room for both, since from certain vantage points it could be argued that your lurches toward the far right have lowered the tone of this forum 😛

 

Well we got AIDS deniers, Communists masquerading as "anarchic participatory democrats", some bloke who you'd swear is either minutes off going postal or is actually serious about Christendom....

 

I figure I'm about average.

 

🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

 

If you happen to be referring  to me as an AIDs denier, no I'm not, I just question the HIV/AIDS link and given people now live long productive lives whilst being diagnosed HIV positive and even have children who are HIV negative I simply would like to put an end to the doomsaying we saw decades ago.

 

I've always found it incredibly difficult to understand that the emergence of HIV/AIDS led to a massive increase in the sale of condoms - it probably saved Ansel from going out of business because the pill had made them irrelevant. However it has been repeatedly stated that the HIV virus is so bloody small it will pass through the pores in a typical condom anyway,

 

Condom  as a prophylactic ? More like a placebo.

 

Cheers

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Chris,

 

If you're gonna lie and say that Trump did nothing, then you're kind of showing basic signs of AOCness/cognitive dissonance.

 

Trump has reduced taxes. And it has benefited lower socio-economic communities. Whenever you reduce taxes, it always benefits those who pay more taxes, more (it's a bit of a "duh" comment).

 

The lie, is that Trump is responsible for it. At best he's kept it going at the same rates of growth, for longer where it may have stalled without the kick up the arse.

 

Feel free to explore:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jul/18/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-several-counts-abou/

https://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/12/politics/trump-economic-boom-obama-compare/index.html

6 minutes ago, chrisg said:

denier, no I'm not, I just question

 

Every anti-vaxxer says they just question and want others to make informed choices.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

 

Well I'm not an anti-vaxxer at all, I just had both a flu and a pneumonia shot myself and have asked if maybe I should have a whooping cough booster since my brother in law just had a bout of what I had mistakenly thought was a near extinct disease.

 

I had not realised that Australia had not gone through the pretty much mandatory vaccination programme that the U.K did in the 50s and 60s.

 

The problem is there is not yet a vaccine for HIV, I sort of question if there ever will be or if one is even needed - sure gets a lot of grant money though  🙂

 

Yeah, the tax break situation is complex but a lot of the money released in the upper strata did not trickle down, it was used for things like giving themselves bonuses or buying back stock.

 

I'd suggest in the main any nett improvement in the lower income strata was incidental but I'll have a look at your links.

 

Cheers

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, chrisg said:

I'd suggest in the main any nett improvement in the lower income strata was incidental but I'll have a look at your links.

 

It's not incidental Chris. Look. Real simple.

 

If Australia's government cuts the second tax bracket ($18,201 – $37,000) from 19c to 18c in the dollar, the following shit happens:

  • Everyone on "up to $18k" screams they didn't get a tax cut. To which every reasonable person says "but you don't pay tax in the first place!" and every unreasonable person (ie Kimmo) starts raving on about "punching down".
  • Everyone above $37k gets a tax cut as well, because of our bracketed system.
  • Because of the bracket, someone on $30K gets a numerically smaller discount than someone on $100k because the $100k encapsulates the entire bracket whereas the $30k does not. The press always refuse to explain this by saying "the average worker" without acknowledging that brackets distort the picture and that the full benefit of a tax reduction in a tax bracket only occurs at the top of the tax bracket, or above it.

Fundamentally, too few people get taught basic civics and economic understanding (inc. taxation) in school. I wasn't. Had to learn it myself through business.

 

I was released from a selective school, knowing more about Shakespeare's works than I did about functioning in Australia's economy. My brother, released from a different selective school 9y later, was in the same boat. Ditto for my cousins - and all my friends.

 

Clearly what's needed here is more classes on wokeness, gender neutrality, safe schools and climate change protests. This should help us achieve our triple goal of:

1. Disappearing up our own assholes

2. Reaching the lowest level of education in the OECD

3. Releasing kids into life that won't survive without warning labels.

 

These kids then vote for AOC types because they're actually dumb enough to fall for bribery with their own money as if the magical fairyland of government waste disappears when you elect SocialistX types, rather than multiplying 400-fold.

 

And then reasonable people, one day, take stock and just say "Fuck it. You want something to rage about? Here you go. Trump. I'm checking out."

Edited by Leonid
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, the simple fact is you release money to people by lowering their tax bracket, giving them money back in the end. What they do with it is up to them and the record shows they did not make much use of it to increase employment.

 

BTW, not sure how you drifted off to the deplorable state of our education system but whilst I agree I have three family members who are extremely high in the system and it has been very sobering to see how much shit they have to wade thorough before they can do their real job of educating youth - utterly unacceptable.

 

Cheers

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, chrisg said:

What they do with it is up to them and the record shows they did not make much use of it to increase employment.

 

You're missing the point. Even if 1% of the rich did boost employment as a function of tax - it still boosts employment.

The real key is that an extra $1k matters a lot more to someone on $30k than $1.5k matters to someone on $1m. That's money they need rather than money they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chrisg said:

BTW, not sure how you drifted off to the deplorable state of our education system

 

Easy.

 

The almost total lack of basic economic understanding that leads to AOCness (or whatever that bullshit Katter keeps prattling on about, on the other end of the scale) - is a direct function of the fact that Western societies don't teach their kids civics any more.

 

Or much of anything.

 

Everyone leaving high school in this country should know how the tax system works, how to fill in a tax return, how to establish a corporate entity, the differences between sole traders, partnerships and corporations and an understanding of the nuanced aspects of the constitution, key amendments and key conventions. They should know the differences between key economic theories and why some succeed and others fail, contextually. 

 

A more educated society is one that doesn't disagree on elementary shit like socialism. We put that crap into the ground 400 times over the last 100 years because no matter what permutation of it rises, it ends in misery, death camps, exodus and mass graves. Yet it keeps rising because people haven't been taught civics and the solid reasons why you can't have your cake and eat it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm.

 

That is completely true but it still did nix to adjust the obscene imbalance of wealth that has come about in the last few decades.

 

i don't suppose i expected it to tbh, but just how so much money has wound up in the hands of Zuckerberg, Bezos, even Gates although I think he still does not quite understand how he became SO rich is somewhat beyond me.

 

All I can really say is that the yplayed a system that probably should not exist in the first place and did it very well.

 

As for education whilst I'd probably want to see kids taught something more useful than filling out forms to be nice little corporate citizens you are not going to get an argument from me.

 

I tend to regard the U.K. education system as well, not bad, but just how relevant 16th century history was when I wanted to have a clearer idea of what happened in the last century has always been beyond me and why when choosing electives I did not even consider history.

 

I've no problem with making sure the past is not forgotten but it is far more pertinent to understand why we are in the mess we are so we can do something about it.

 

I don't think the War of the Roses has much relevance in today's world.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, chrisg said:

That is completely true but it still did nix to adjust the obscene imbalance of wealth that has come about in the last few decades.

 

 

It might be obscene but it doesn't actually rip money out of the poor. At the same time as the rich have been getting obscenely wealthy, the global poor have decreased in number, increased in wealth, health and have more services.

 

These are not bad metrics either.

 

33 minutes ago, chrisg said:

i don't suppose i expected it to tbh, but just how so much money has wound up in the hands of Zuckerberg, Bezos, even Gates although I think he still does not quite understand how he became SO rich is somewhat beyond me.

 

Because they built juggernauts out of their garages, sweating 100 hours weeks.

 

But on a fundamental level - the amount of money in their hands is not that large. They simply own very very lucrative capital-appreciating assets.

 

IE Bezos doesn't have US$159b in his bank account. Like you and me, he takes home a paycheck and is taxed on it. He owns shares in the company he built - those shares have a taxable value of $0 until he sells them.

 

So really, Bezos might have $100m in his bank account. It's huge money. All the rest is tied in assets appreciated through blood, sweat and tears to a value of $159b. How do you plan on taxing that?

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

 

I worked my guts out for years in way over 100 hour weeks - I'm not a billionaire 🙂

 

Yeah,  wealth is very ephemeral, but  they could cash down, sacrifice and still be ridiculously wealthy, I tend to work month to month at the moment 🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Leonid said:

I was released from a selective school, knowing more about Shakespeare's works than I did about functioning in Australia's economy. My brother, released from a different selective school 9y later, was in the same boat. Ditto for my cousins - and all my friends.

And teach it where?  Did you take the electives required?  There aren't many mandatory classes by the end of high school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2019 at 12:57 PM, eveln said:

Careful Leonid ! For thinking like that you too risk being labelled a blind-faith-Trump fan.

 

Anyone who doesn't condemn that fuckwit almost entirely is self-evidently blind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kimmo said:

 

Anyone who doesn't condemn that fuckwit almost entirely is self-evidently blind. 

 

Man who spends most days blind-fucked by cocaine he can’t afford at rallies to resurrect a 150yo failed ideology with non-friends he calls comrades, who’d neck him first if the revolution ever actually happened... deigns to tell others from his place of achievement and respect, that they’re blind.

1 hour ago, Nich... said:

And teach it where?  Did you take the electives required?  There aren't many mandatory classes by the end of high school.

 

That’s an excellent question. I don’t have an answer there, maybe just a musing. In NSW English is a mandatory subject. Maybe make civics the same?

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's maybe an argument that if English is about critical analysis, then whether the text is a piece of fiction, the news, or a contract, doesn't make much difference.

I'm not sure what you'd pad a civics class with for 6 years, let alone where it'd fit without making people take one less elective by HSC etc.  And I overloaded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm.

 

What actually ARE the necessary skills we need to be teaching kids as they grow up ?

 

Seriously, reading, writing and 'rithmetic ?

 

I'm not at all sure about  any of those any more.

 

Reading is undergoing a renaissance , to the delight of my recently retired librarian sister, and me, I love books, but even she admits an increasing number of people and thus by extension libraries are relying much more on audio books.

 

Writing ? Speech to text keeps getting better and I make no bones of the fact that my once very legible writing is now a disgrace from too many years on keyboards.

 

'Rithmetic ? I just reach for a calculator and have for decades.

 

As humans we learn to speak by example and yes, we do very much need to appreciate the basics of numbers but unless you are a freak like me you are very unlikely to encounter a quadratic equation in your entire life. Making sure the shopping list is added up correctly is for most about as far as it goes.

 

Interacting with technology seems to be the most appropriate set of skills to teach kids these days and given how quickly they pick that up without assistance - believe me, my nieces and nephews do not need my help to use their iPads, never have, my wife does, and still does not really understand it, I'm not sure they need much help there.

 

That's rather scary though, someone still has to invent, develop and manufacture that technology and if it were ever to go away through some cataclysm we would be up shit creek without even the tools to carve a paddle.

 

That's a roundabout way of saying that education needs a huge overhaul, forget about teaching specifics by rote, teach the wonder of learning and turn them loose, they'll get it, kids just do. It's society that fucks them up.

 

So no Leo, I don't think we need to teach kids how to apply for an ABN, question why we need the thing in the first place (It's a control mechanism) that might be useful 🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading, Writing and Maths are basic staples, however you use them. Add “coding” to that list.

 

Civics should include:

- history of constitutional democracy in australia

- understanding of broad elements of the constitution

- understanding of taxation and economic systems in general

- practical taxation - filling out taxes, understanding trusts

- elements of patent law

- how to establish a business and business structures

 

There probably isn’t 6y in it. Maybe make it mandatory in y9 & y10 with further modules in y11 & y12 as electives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

 

Those are ENTIRELY based around societal structures that the anarchistic in me aches to tear down and trample into the dust  🙂

 

I sometimes think the man may have been taken out of Russia but elements of Russia remain in the man  🙂

 

I'm not very sure about coding any more either, we are building technology upon itself so fast that code generators are getting to be better and faster at writing tight code than we are.

 

What technology as a distinct sub-set of intelligence thus far lacks is imagination, if that ever emerges mankind is irrelevant.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Civics" - why bother?

 

It would be hijacked from the get-go and just be full of PC brainwashing.

 

Additionally, people not knowing how to do those most basic citizen things - just gives weight to the Nanny State proponents so there's a 2 pronged opposition to begin with - though that said the 2 groups occupy about 80% of the same Venn Diagram.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Rybags said:

It would be hijacked from the get-go and just be full of PC brainwashing.

 

Hand that part of the curriculum over to FSU immigrants. I promise you, no PC shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A bloke I used to know though I think from Ukraine and over here way before 1990 used to complain about things after the fall of communism.

Though that was from no doubt 3rd hand information from afar and in the early 90s when the initial pain was taking place.

 

The other laugh about the civics thing - even when I was in school they crapped on about how we'd learn that stuff in Social Science (which luckily was only compulory in Year 7), but the reality is the subject matter was anything but that.

 

It's like pissing in the wind, expecially considering the term "decent and/or respectable citizen" has been hijacked and has nothing to do with it's former self.

Edited by Rybags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean you could probably fix this by banning Greens voters from the education system. Just don’t let them pass “Working with Children” checks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×