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Kimmo

What a joke

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Nich... said:
1 hour ago, eveln said:

you are referring to States within a country aren't you ? I'm not sure I know where "free travel" between the States, is illegal at all. Where as your " dirty illegal immigrants " are people trying to enter a country without following that country's protocol ( which all those with in the country are required to do already. if they don't then jail or fines etc. follow) I don't see how globalisation is going to help with jobs and housing etc.

... I don't want to screw anyone and don't want to be screwed by anyone either, although that's a pretty tough ask with our self-important-self aggrandising-over paid-pollies right now.

Ah so because that's the law it's ok to control who comes to Australia but not control who moves within Australia.

? Laws control the speeds people move within the country all the time. Sometimes it seems a shame there is not more  control of population numbers re growth of infrastructure ... but that's our local / federal pollies not doing their jobs properly.

 

Quote


If globalisation won't help with jobs or housing, how are people leaving Tasmania - economic refugees - going to  help with jobs and housing in Qld or WA or SA in mining towns?

How would globalisation stop people leaving Tasmania ? People have left their home towns in search of wealth etc. since time began. How will globalisation make that not happen ?

Edited by eveln

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The laws that stop free immigration into Australia are there for a reason.  Why is that reason different to how we treat people moving from state to territory to state?

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There's no laws governing people moving state to state (other than the likes of parole or special court orders).  It's a single country.

The fact there's immigration laws in most/all countries should be pretty self evident.

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The only country I know of that has a universal obligation to admit you is Israel, if you are demonstrably Jewish, whatever that means...

 

Cheers

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Ah well the law says it is or isn't ok so that's ok for us because we don't need to think about law and morality not being the same?

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🙂

 

Equating law and morality is mostly a fool's errand - the law always has been an ass, especially in extremis   🙂

 

Chees

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Nich... said:

The laws that stop free immigration into Australia are there for a reason.  Why is that reason different to how we treat people moving from state to territory to state?

because it is 🙂  ... no seriously , it is.

 

but you still haven't told me how globalisation is gonna keep people in Tassie ... more likely cos it won't. What it might do is put other people in Tassie not making a living like those that left to get jobs in other States, before them

Edited by eveln

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You're right, I'm not going to tell you how globalisation is going to keep people in Tasmania, because that was never something I asserted it would.

Or, as you'd say.  I'm not.  No seriously, I'm not.

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🙂

 

Most people retire to Tassie, nice place, only the young leave  🙂

 

Cheers

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11 hours ago, Nich... said:

You're right, I'm not going to tell you how globalisation is going to keep people in Tasmania, because that was never something I asserted it would.

Or, as you'd say.  I'm not.  No seriously, I'm not.

 

I'm enjoying this line of questioning. 

 

Ev, Nich... Seems to be asking why people crossing state borders to leave Tasmania for work is different to other refugees from around the world choosing Australia to come to apart from it just being the law. Is the law an arbitrary divide? Are the laws just? Should they, in your opinion, be tightened so those Taswegians have to go back to where they come from. 

 

Chrisg, of course people go to Tasmania to retire but that is not the question. That is people going there when they already have money, not those dirty young south Island people who come and take the jobs of hard working people in other states. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, fliptopia said:

 

Ev, Nich... Seems to be asking why people crossing state borders to leave Tasmania for work is different to other refugees from around the world choosing Australia to come to apart from it just being the law. Is the law an arbitrary divide? Are the laws just? Should they, in your opinion, be tightened so those Taswegians have to go back to where they come from.

Yeah I know. ... but Tassie is Australia.  Some people think WA is soooo far away it's like another country too ; ) I don't think the law is that arbitrary. If you think about it as Tassie has always been in line with Australian laws. The same cannot be said for illegal immigrants / refugees. And thinking that way imo, is not being racist /religionist/globalist /nationalist, it's just the fact of the matter ... for me 😉

Edited by eveln

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Hmm.

 

It's in the end purely speculative - if we had no borders the world would be a very, very different place. Just the absence of nationalism would be revolutionary.

 

That is not the way we have thus far evolved - it's a rather nice daydream though... 🙂

 

Cheers

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6 hours ago, fliptopia said:

Chrisg, of course people go to Tasmania to retire but that is not the question. That is people going there when they already have money, not those dirty young south Island people who come and take the jobs of hard working people in other states. 

I don't know how this bit didn't get quoted with the rest ...

with the retirees comes money, and some flow from people on the mainland too, don't you think ? Surely it's not solely a one way exodus ? The retirees would not stand for no service whatsoever. They need something of a workforce to make them feel worthy of their retirement 😉

...surely ?

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🙂

 

Quite true Ev, although a lot of the people that retire down there are more self-sufficient than most but of course they still bring with them their savings and spend them there.

 

It is, less so but a factor of S.A. a lot of older people move here even if not to retire.

 

The medical and support services are very good, the place is pretty laid back and stays on an even keel.

 

So does Tassie, neither state is going to set the world on fire but they are part of the picture that is Australia.

 

Cheers

 

 

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

Yeah I know. ... but Tassie is Australia.  Some people think WA is soooo far away it's like another country too ; ) I don't think the law is that arbitrary. If you think about it as Tassie has always been in line with Australian laws. The same cannot be said for illegal immigrants / refugees. And thinking that way imo, is not being racist /religionist/globalist /nationalist, it's just the fact of the matter ... for me 😉

That's... still very circular.

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1 hour ago, Nich... said:
4 hours ago, eveln said:

Yeah I know. ... but Tassie is Australia.  Some people think WA is soooo far away it's like another country too ; ) I don't think the law is that arbitrary. If you think about it as Tassie has always been in line with Australian laws. The same cannot be said for illegal immigrants / refugees. And thinking that way imo, is not being racist /religionist/globalist /nationalist, it's just the fact of the matter ... for me 😉

That's... still very circular.

Well. I didn't know you were looking for a straight line. Does it not sort of explain your original question ? The diff between some of Tassie's residents looking for a living elsewhere within their homeland, and illegal immigrants /International refugees... and even though a ferry is required, it is homeland still. I mean some people use a ferry in Sydney to get to and from work, and they don't leave the State of NSW to do that either. It's just the quirks of Australia's geography, yes ?

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'It's ok for Tasmanians to come and take our jobs because the law says it is ok and it's not ok for people from outside of Australia to come and take out jobs because the law says it's not ok (except for when it does say it's ok)' does nothing to address why the law say one group can take your job but the other can't. 

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They don't "come and take our jobs" - they're Australian taxpayers who already live here and have the right of free movement.

 

I don't get this obsession with the need for immigration - it's a joke even under Liberal.  The policy needs to be based on the needs of the country, not the incoming individual.

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2 hours ago, Nich... said:

'It's ok for Tasmanians to come and take our jobs because the law says it is ok and it's not ok for people from outside of Australia to come and take out jobs because the law says it's not ok (except for when it does say it's ok)' does nothing to address why the law say one group can take your job but the other can't. 

... but but see there are already large numbers of immigrants within Aussie raising families and building lives for their selves. Those are mostly immigrants playing by the rules. Having said that, AFP raids do find illegals living and working  ( taking our jobs ) too.

 

Quite glad I'm not a Taswegian, seems you not like their presence too much ;) ... guess I'm a mixed breed as I've lived in two States here, slightly longer in this State though.

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3 hours ago, Rybags said:

They don't "come and take our jobs" - they're Australian taxpayers who already live here and have the right of free movement.

 

I don't get this obsession with the need for immigration - it's a joke even under Liberal.  The policy needs to be based on the needs of the country, not the incoming individual.

So it should be based on the needs of the state, not the person who wants to move state?

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Interstate movement, don't care.  International movement should be needs of the destination nation.

 

Like I said, they're Australian taxpayers and this isn't communist USSR.

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But if they came here from another country then they'd be Australian taxpayers too.

Either people moving into a local economy/area from outside of it is going to cause problems or it isn't.  I'm still waiting on why the distinction needs to be drawn at 'international' and 'domestic'.

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Like I said, no country has an open border policy.  And no reason why we should either.

And our state borders, they're administrative regions just like plenty of other countries like US, England, Brazil, Germany have, and their citizens similarly have right of free movement within them.

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So you're not able to articulate a reason other than 'status quo, that's what everyone else does'? 

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Why should I have to justify a global set of laws and practices that have been going on for generations?

 

Just because something is "status quo" or done by everyone doesn't give reason to question it.

Opening borders in some free for all exercise would be madness at best.

 

How about the people here who think movement should be easier justify why we should relax entry and residency requirements?

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