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Kimmo

What a joke

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I have no idea why Trump even hired that Bolton in the first place ...

Edited by Jeruselem

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No,

 

 I completely agree J, but why does he in general hire who he does ?

 

Cheers

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9 hours ago, chrisg said:

It's a bit of a reach to compare Fascism to Islam, if it is in fact really Islam that the demented ones in Tehran practice, which I would dispute, the Quran has nothing much to say about much of what they do, if anything. They interpret it to suit their goals.

 

Bet you can’t find me anything they do in Riyadh or Tehran that is not in the Quran, I’d be much surprised if otherwise.

 

Religion is evil. Evil people use religion to generate more evil people. Same for socialism.

 

As such, almost everything Tehran does is straight outta Islamic theology.

8 hours ago, chrisg said:

BTW, that' the 47th senior official to leave the Trump White House, the bucket must be getting rather empty...

 

Naw. Wouldn’t worry about it.

 

If he hires John Kerry or Hillary Clinton, then you know rock bottom has been found.

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🙂

 

 I do not think he would get that close to the bottom of the barrel Leo, but given the way his s-called Government lurches from one internal crisis to another nothing much would surprise me anymore...

 

I'm not about to go poring through religious texts, you know as well as I do that after having gone through multiple translations you can pretty much interpret what you want to see.

 

However, whilst I agree religion is indeed evil I would suggest that if Jesus and Mohamed were to appear on the scene today they would be horrified at how they have been interpreted.

 

Cheers

 

 

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There is no translation of the Quran.

 

It was written in the same Arabic that is written today, not compiled etc.

 

Unlike other texts of the holy variety, it has not been adjusted, etc.

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🙂

 

So how come I can buy an English translation ? Because I sure do not speak Arabic...Neither funnily enough, do some Arab descended friends of mine.

 

Of course it has been translated, do not be foolish.

 

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Publications/Quran_Translated_13255.html

 

 

The question that could be debate forever is, has it been accurately translated ?

 

I could say the same of the Bible and you might say the same of the Torah - neither of which I give much credence to.

 

Cheers

  • Haha 1

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Actually the Torah and the Bible have been translated - from aramaic. The original Torah has been lost, translated and recompiled. We have no idea whether the version we read in Hebrew now has any bearing whatsoever to the lost original.

 

The Bible is compiled.

 

The Quran is unchanged - it was written in Arabic and has never deviated from that. It has not been lost, compiled or re-written.

Edited by Leonid

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2 hours ago, Leonid said:

There is no translation of the Quran.

 

It was written in the same Arabic that is written today, not compiled etc.

 

Unlike other texts of the holy variety, it has not been adjusted, etc.

Modern and Classical Arabic aren't the same language, per se, tho'.

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1 hour ago, Nich... said:

Modern and Classical Arabic aren't the same language, per se, tho'.

 

There’s fundamentally barely any difference. Morphology and Syntax is basically the same.

 

Only the spelling, grammar (ie hyphenation) has changed.

 

 

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So what you are saying is that nothing has been lost in the translation?

 

Somehow I do find that rather difficult to accept, there are some fundamental concepts in every language that do not readily come across into another.

 

The Bible, and indeed the Torah, I fully accept there is no real way of knowing if what we are reading is what was set down a couple of thousand years ago. It probably explains a great deal.

 

Cheers

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10 hours ago, chrisg said:

So what you are saying is that nothing has been lost in the translation?

 

Yep. Because there's been no translation.

 

Maybe you don't know the history of the Quran.

 

An illiterate goat herder, warlord, genocidaire, rapist and all-round-asshole called Mohammed, quoted verses from around 610AD to his disciples, scribes and friends. These were written on whatever was available at the time and was never compiled.

 

After his death, the new Caliph had a civil war to uh... put down... so a lot of these people to whom Moey told his LSD-fuelled BS to... died.

 

Abu Bakr (fun story - he's the father of the 6yo Moey married - her name was Ayesha) then had a bloke called Zayeed bin Thabit compile the stories left into the Quran. This finished up around 634AD. About 20 years after Moey carked it, there arose a whole bunch of disputes around recitation so they burned all copies of all Qurans and produced one official copy.

 

This is the one we know today - unchanged since roughly 654AD.

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...Except it HAS been translated to English - I think you miss my point, a deal gets lost in translation.

 

Actually I did know some of the early history of the  Quran, not quite the same story but close, however it really doesn't bother me much since I regard it as a persistently misinterpreted pile of shit.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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Who is reading the english translations?  Radical Syrians?

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🙂

 

Well, me, but many years ago now 🙂

 

Somehow I doubt Radical Syrians would necessarily be fluent in English , I'd suspect they might read it the presumed original...

 

In the end it's not much more that the ravings of a lunatic when he is half out of breath, but you have to cut through a deal of crap to realise that.

 

BTW, the Bible is not much if any better,

 

Cheers

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

...Except it HAS been translated to English - I think you miss my point, a deal gets lost in translation.

 

Actually I did know some of the early history of the  Quran, not quite the same story but close, however it really doesn't bother me much since I regard it as a persistently misinterpreted pile of shit.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt any middle eastern country is struggling with an English translation. 

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🙂

 

So do I flip - they'd be reading it in probably modern Arabic, as Nich quite rightly points out.

 

Cheers

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Oh,

 

This is actually a bit of a concern, or not, depends upon your viewpoint:

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/house-judiciary-committee-chairman-approves-impeachment-investigation/news-story/70481c375172b1b86fd0d286115af949

 

There's this thing with Trump, if it was irrelevant he'd ignore it, he's attempting to lampoon it so he's probably a degree concerned.

 

I'm not sure it's really such a good idea, possibly premature but then again they have had enough time to mull over the Mueller report which has enough lit fuses dangling to blow him clean out of the White House if taken in proper context and pursued.

 

At the very least it could be amusing to see how he blusters his way through it.

 

My bigger concern is that we see a re-run of the Nixon situation except instead of a lame duck President left to serve out the term, as we did with Ford, we get Pompeo - a much more dangerous alternative.

 

American politics can really be a joke, I do find it somewhat ironic, although very concerning, that they chose to name their new first-in-class carrier the Ford and that it is attracting all the wrong publicity.

 

The story does go much deeper and the Navy is right to stick with it whilst they sort out the radical new electromagnetic catapults and the very much evolved but problematic elevators but they really could have chosen a better name for the ship.

 

It is not helping of course that Mr I'm-an-expert-on-everything Trump is taking snipes at it and telling them to go back to steam.

 

He does not seem to appreciate that steam catapults whilst present on all ten of the current carrier fleet come with many drawbacks that the new systems once sorted will eradicate.

 

Nor does he seem to understand that the reason the elevators have issues is that the navy is moving to remove a flaw that does exist is all the other carriers presently afloat that gives a path pretty much direct to the magazines if  an enemy strike were to make it through the defenses and detonate most anywhere midships.

 

It has been there through successive carrier generations which never bothered anyone much because until recently there really was no way to have a strike on a carrier be likely to make it that far but now the propaganda at least suggests both Russia and China may have hypersonics that could hit a carrier in just the wrong way.

 

The navy is approaching that two ways, first with deeper and even better carrier defense to keep a hit from happening on the "legacy" carriers and second to design it out of future builds.

 

They'll get there but they'd rather it not be in the glare of public scrutiny.

 

It is of course all decadent weaponry which we really should be getting over entirely but with Russia re-emergent and China, although not really mature as yet, building a big blue water navy the U.S. has little option but to stay ahead of the game.

 

Crazy world, but we are stuck with it.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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On 9/12/2019 at 5:38 PM, chrisg said:

🙂

 

So do I flip - they'd be reading it in probably modern Arabic, as Nich quite rightly points out.

 

Cheers

 

Which is the same as Classical Arabic with exception to spelling and hyphenation.

 

You miss the point tho. While translations exist it has never been translated - in other words the original (in effect) exists. We only read translations and compilations of the bible and Torah because they are unavailable to us in original form and language + the original language is no longer spoken and hasn’t been in Millenia so there is no way to guarantee that meaning came across in the translation.

 

The Quran is literally unchanged and the language it was written in is spoken by 320m people around the world.

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10 hours ago, chrisg said:

It is not helping of course that Mr I'm-an-expert-on-everything Trump

 

See now I know exactly what the issue is ... chrisg is jealous

...doesn't matter how much ya think ya know, some day you'll come across somebody who knows more

lol

  • Haha 1

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🙂

 

To repeat an old joke Ev, "I'd happily have a battle of wits with MR Trump, but he appears to be unarmed."

 

However having seen some excerpts from today's Democratic Party debate I really do begin to wonder about them.

 

Biden sort of held his own even when Castro, who doesn't have a prayer, tried to tell him he was suffering memory loss - not cool, and no one else really stood out, not even Bernie.

 

I had hoped to see more fire from O'Rourke but I really am wondering if he is not biding his time for 2024, which he certainly can afford to do at his age. With all the serious contenders if you take that to be Biden, Warren and Sanders 70 or over it is very unlikely they will stand again, win or lose.

 

Still, it is five months still until the first actual vote to pick a runner, as the saying goes a week is a long time in politics.

 

I do really believe the party needs new blood, as passionate as Sanders can be and as genial as Biden mostly is they are both yesterday's men.

 

It is going to be very interesting to see who the party chooses and on what  platforms they choose to run.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/09/2019 at 2:16 PM, eveln said:
On 10/09/2019 at 11:28 AM, Jeruselem said:

So trump thinks people from the bahamas (who just had their country smashed by Dorian( are like ... all of them gang members?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-10/donald-trump-warns-bahamas-hurricane-dorian-survivors-bad-people/11494830

The article states there are still people being looked for. Seems to me good practice to try and keep as good an account as possible of the comings and goings at this time. What's to say someone is deemed lost, is actually sitting safe somewhere else ? 

Also Jeruselem you be making a false statement in your post .Yes I know you think the POTUS is not worthy, but don't be exaggerating because of your dislike. Please

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-13/hurricane-dorian-1300-people-missing/11511404

The article is about 1300 people still unaccounted for. It also admits the people might be in shelters or the like ... I'd say that's a good reason for keeping lists. it's a time honoured tradition to try and keep accurate accounts of people's where abouts in times of climate strife or man made strife for that matter

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Probably not so much in the Caribbean to be honest Ev, they are pretty loose when it comes to "hatch, match and dispatch" departments.

 

They may never know, but the Bahamas hardly have much of a reputation for running gangs - Jamaica yes, the Bahamas hardly.

 

I seem to recall there is one gang of note but they would likely have been safe and sound before the storm and looting after with no particular interest in sneaking into the States. It is not exactly difficult for residents of the Bahamas to travel to the U.S. anyway so I really don't know what he is on about.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, chrisg said:

 It is not exactly difficult for residents of the Bahamas to travel to the U.S. anyway so I really don't know what he is on about.

 

 

there, i fixed that for you

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